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well, sony are taking to the dslr market with an M-60. just shoot like all hell and hope something lands on the competitors.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08...lpha300350.asp

a200/ 300/ 350 all aimed at the entry level it proves that canon have responded beautifully with the xsi which stacks up perfectly. but nikon have fallen well behind with the miserable d60. the d60 is really what the d40x should have been and its now one gen behind and how that camera is going to cope is beyond me.

the new flip panel. i personally don;t like it. its definately a vast improvement and what i have said from day 1 needed to happen with LV, ie: a flip screen. but its confusing to me why they would go for this option over a proper swivel like the E3 ? is it a durability thing ?

its gonna be a winner with P&S gadget people though. if the IQ is good, which i am sure it will be, sony has come to play goddmit ! there are some nikon execs who should be sacked right now for their pathetic attempt to read the marketplace for what constitutes "entry level".

bring on the price war i say ! this xmas dslr prices are gonna hit rock bottom. viva la sony !

Nikon may or may not be falling behind but with the D60 you do get Eye-Fi - a world first

Rooz wrote:the d60 is really what the d40x should have been

The D40 series has been the hottest selling DSLR - period - since its release. A major success. And its user interface is amongst the best I have ever seen: confused about the relationship between aperture settings and whether a large number means a big or a small aperture opening? Not on a D40!

So, you are in effect condemning the D60 to be a huge success. Even moreso than the D40.

But getting back on topic, do you believe that the Sony will be a well built, solid unit? Able to be used for more than three weeks beyond the expiry of its warranty?

By now we should be seeing some of Sony's account^h^h^h^h^h^h^hmarket^h^h^h^h^h^hengineering qualities shining through. I'm expecting a fully tarnished camera.

sirhc55 wrote:Nikon may or may not be falling behind but with the D60 you do get Eye-Fi - a world first

Chris,

But will that be as good or as useful as the old Canon eye-focus system? Why did they discard that? It seemed like such a good idea.

gstark wrote:

sirhc55 wrote:Nikon may or may not be falling behind but with the D60 you do get Eye-Fi - a world first

Chris,

But will that be as good or as useful as the old Canon eye-focus system? Why did they discard that? It seemed like such a good idea.

I can”t tell whether you are tongue-in-cheek on this one Gary but it has nothing to do with the eyepiece

Eye-Fi is a wireless SD card system. . .

gstark wrote:

Rooz wrote:the d60 is really what the d40x should have been

The D40 series has been the hottest selling DSLR - period - since its release. A major success. And its user interface is amongst the best I have ever seen: confused about the relationship between aperture settings and whether a large number means a big or a small aperture opening? Not on a D40!

So, you are in effect condemning the D60 to be a huge success. Even moreso than the D40.

But getting back on topic, do you believe that the Sony will be a well built, solid unit? Able to be used for more than three weeks beyond the expiry of its warranty?

By now we should be seeing some of Sony's account^h^h^h^h^h^h^hmarket^h^h^h^h^h^hengineering qualities shining through. I'm expecting a fully tarnished camera.

completely agree about the d40. no question. but that was then, this is now.

imo the expectations of consumers of what they get for their money in an entry model dslr has significantly shifted. sony is a big reason for that now. the d60 looks positively prehistoric in comparison to the latest xsi and sony models. nikon read the market wrong imo and they now have an entry level model that cannot possibly compete in this new changing market so they lose the edge that the fantastic little d40 earned them initially.

as for sony's relibility, i dont know the answer to that. has there been systematic issues with the a10 and a700 ? none i've heard of anyway.

performance ? well the a700 looks solid. if the trickle down works well then all the sony models will perform very well indeed. and the flip screen ? well...its gonna clearly be a winner with the P&S crowd.

sirhc55 wrote:

gstark wrote:

sirhc55 wrote:Nikon may or may not be falling behind but with the D60 you do get Eye-Fi - a world first

Chris,

But will that be as good or as useful as the old Canon eye-focus system? Why did they discard that? It seemed like such a good idea.

I can”t tell whether you are tongue-in-cheek on this one Gary but it has nothing to do with the eyepiece

Eye-Fi is a wireless SD card system. . .

Serious, Chris.

Wasn't there something in the D60 spec about sensing the user's eye in the viewfinder and then turning off the LCDs while the camera was placed at the user's eye in order to conserve and extend battery life?

gstark wrote:Wasn't there something in the D60 spec about sensing the user's eye in the viewfinder and then turning off the LCDs while the camera was placed at the user's eye in order to conserve and extend battery life?

I think about these new and improved "innovations" and think that it is just something else which, if it fails, could render the device unusable (possibly). I consider it in the same ball park as push button boot closures on cars.

Patrick 'still using a box brownie' Reschsmooth wrote:I think about these new "innovations" and think that it is just something else which, if it fails, could render the device unusable

The whole DLSR is a giant bunch of things that all have to work for anything useful to come of it. I'm more concerned with actual reliability numbers than speculation, and buy gadgets based on usefulness per dollar. But I'm impressed at people who still use simple, robust, extremely reliable technologies. Like dabbing paint onto rocks, none of this fancy high-precision engineering that fails at the first hint of a bit of dust.

moz wrote:

Patrick 'still using a box brownie' Reschsmooth wrote:I think about these new "innovations" and think that it is just something else which, if it fails, could render the device unusable

The whole DLSR is a giant bunch of things that all have to work for anything useful to come of it. I'm more concerned with actual reliability numbers than speculation, and buy gadgets based on usefulness per dollar. But I'm impressed at people who still use simple, robust, extremely reliable technologies. Like dabbing paint onto rocks, none of this fancy high-precision engineering that fails at the first hint of a bit of dust.

Moz,

You no doubt still have a sly drool. A good friend of mine in LA has one that he treasures.


Patrick, Patrick, Patrick, Patrick, Patrick ....

Reschsmooth the language Wendeller wrote:new "innovations"

What are we to do with you?

Isn't the D60 at a lower price point compared to the competition? $100 cheaper than the 450D?

jamesw wrote:Isn't the D60 at a lower price point compared to the competition? $100 cheaper than the 450D?

Official pricing from Nikon Straya:

D60 body only PP1099
D60 + 18-55VR PP1199
D60 +18-55VR + 55-200VR PP1399

D40x Body only PP899 while stocks last. D60 seems to be its replacement.

D40 + 18-55 PP799

PC-E 24mm PP2999

D200 anniversary (!) kit (Body + MDB-D200, extra EN-EL3e) PP2299 ... and PP300 cashback too. We think that's in addition to the pricing, but we're waiting on clarification.

D200 Body only PP2199.

Just read that Sony have developed a 24Mp FF Sensor and they're putting it in their own yet un-named flagship Alpha model...oh for the love of humanity. Then again, this may help drive pricing down but who knows!

Unnamed model

Sensor announcement article

PiroStitch wrote:Just read that Sony have developed a 24Mp FF Sensor

Yep.

We posted about this in this thread last evening.

Ya gotta be quick in these here parts, Wayne.

Well it said D3X and not Sony In Mexico, it takes days for the page to load let alone reply

Did you know Sony have designed...

How many pixels can you cram on a 24x36 mm sensor before IQ is degraded, I wonder (sometimes).

Reschsmooth wrote:Did you know Sony have designed...

How many pixels can you cram on a 24x36 mm sensor before IQ is degraded, I wonder (sometimes).

Patrick,

Pixel density vs cellsite size is an interesting issue.

On the one hand, you have the D3, with big cellsites and a relatively low density. As you know, the larger cellsites, under current technology, aid in the low noise/high ISO performance equation.

But the greater cell density of the D300 can help an image get higher resolution.

Now, take the D300 sensor, and expand it to FX dimensions, keeping the same density as the D300. You're up somewhere around 22MP, but with the higher resolution of the D300.

Would IQ be degraded? Dunno.

gstark wrote:But getting back on topic, do you believe that the Sony will be a well built, solid unit? Able to be used for more than three weeks beyond the expiry of its warranty?

By now we should be seeing some of Sony's account^h^h^h^h^h^h^hmarket^h^h^h^h^h^hengineering qualities shining through. I'm expecting a fully tarnished camera.

Years ago I always bought Sony, be it laptops, cameras, hifi gear. The F707 camera was a legendary device which I still miss to this day. But no more Sony for me...the build quality and after sales service evaporated as far my experience is concerned.

I had a look over the Sony Alpha DSLR in New Zealand a few months ago - it seemed plasticky, cheap and was very expensive (now there's a contradiction!). No thanks, I'll stick with Canon or Nikon. (I apologise to any Sony owners out there... )

Ozi

i wonder how many P&S'rs, (who will probably be migrating up from a sony P&S), will think that way though ?

these new models aren't really there to appeal to people like "us" necessarily. add the a300/350's flip screen and in body IS, it'd look very attractive and more importantly very easy to sell. then add the mid and top range FF model and all of a sudden sony isn;t a part time player anymore, they are perceived as having the full range from complete novice to pro.

ozimax wrote: (I apologise to any Sony owners out there... )

Why?

I would have expected that to be Sony's task.

gstark wrote:

ozimax wrote: (I apologise to any Sony owners out there... )

Why?

I would have expected that to be Sony's task.

I feel sorry for suckers like me ...... no, hopefully I've learned my lesson by now....repeat after me, "NO SONY, NO SONY"

gstark wrote:

ozimax wrote: (I apologise to any Sony owners out there... )

I would have expected that to be Sony's task.

lmao

I have a PS2. The only decent thing Sony has sold in the last 20 years. Admittedly it is my second as the first overheated and died.

I would never buy a Sony camera when there are better cameras available.

so the a900 is pretty much confirmed now and we also know it will have the 24mp sensor...most importantly WITH in body SSS. this is an impressive achievement and sony's line up is now complete. i hope sony put the cat amongst the pigeons here and really start to drive some pricing changes. unfortuanely their glass is still ridiculously priced so now joy it would seem in a lens price war.

some pretty cool videos here of some of the newer models.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/EVENTS/ ... IDEO.HTML#