DSLRUsers.com

Hi Guys,
I currently have a Nikon SB-600 as my on camera flash, and use my camera's built in optical trigger system to trigger it off camera when I need off camera flash. I am finding that more and more I need off camera flash, and am thinking about going to a radio system where I have a commander, and a $50 flash plus a $50 reciever to have a cheap multiple slave flash system.
Does anyone here do this, how do you do it?

I had a look at pocketwizards, bit too expensive, I like the look of the Elinchrom Skyports, and they seem rather good, and good value for money, anyone use those?

Check also the radiopoppers....

If you're starting off and are happy to use something within 1m to 5m range, have a look at the Cactus triggers on ebay. They're cheap...also nasty, but it will get you started. I started with them and then got frustrated at the inconsistency of the receivers and duly bought PWs instead.

Use the search function and type in "skyport".

Here are two threads that you would have found that way.

http://www.dslrusers.com/viewtopic.php? ... rt#p340974

http://www.dslrusers.com/viewtopic.php? ... rt#p356752

PiroStitch wrote:If you're starting off and are happy to use something within 1m to 5m range, have a look at the Cactus triggers on ebay. They're cheap...also nasty, but it will get you started. I started with them and then got frustrated at the inconsistency of the receivers and duly bought PWs instead.

With a bit of DIY and some cheap parts the cactus triggers can be made much more consistent and also have a much longer range. I use some modified ones with great results.

bwhatnall wrote:I am finding that more and more I need off camera flash, and am thinking about going to a radio system where I have a commander, and a $50 flash plus a $50 reciever to have a cheap multiple slave flash system.
Does anyone here do this, how do you do it?

Did you say you want to have a wireless TTL system? Or just a wireless system?

Wireless TTL is much more complicated than the centuries old wireless slave flash system. Wireless TTL is only achievable through commander modes or radiopoppers as I know.

I use the radio triggering system from HKSupplies and worked very well for me. Have a slight modification and it works with all external flashes and also easily modifiable to extend range. Cheap enough to bring up guts to open it up and make changes inside without hurting your wallet. The Cactus triggers are also a good source for this as well.

In order to work with the normal radio triggers (even pocket wizzard) is that you will lose TTL capability, so you must shoot everything in manual, including flash output values.
From what I understand that you thought pocket wizzards or other radio triggers can send a TTL signal to the flashes? No, they don't.

That is what I thought, darn, so the Nikon wireless lighting system is the only one that supports wireless TTL?

bwhatnall wrote:That is what I thought, darn, so the Nikon wireless lighting system is the only one that supports wireless TTL?

Only SB600, 800, 900 support CLS Wireless TTL Lighting. You can't buy a $50 flash and expect it to work in TTL mode as the SB800 or others. If you only have about $100 budget, you can only work with all manual modes. Sorry low cost method always involve more work.

SB600 cannot commandeer other flashes, only SB800/900 and the remote commander unit (forgot model name) can commandeer other units (making things work). Ofcourse, the built in flash on cameras like D70,80,90, and the D200 (and above) can do so too, with limited options.

I don't think the SB600 has a SU4 (slave flash mode) as with the SB800 and 900, so you can't really test out what's the feel is like for using manual flash. The only way is to put your SB600 on top of the camera and turn on manual mode for both camera and flash. Get a little feeling of what's involved. This is basic flash 101, manual mode all the way.

bwhatnall wrote:That is what I thought, darn, so the Nikon wireless lighting system is the only one that supports wireless TTL?

Radio Poppers will transmit the Wireless TTL signal over longer distances than the Nikon Master, but you still need a Nikon Remote at the other end.

Basically they pick up the Nikon (or Canon) signal being sent to the master (Camera Flash, SB800, SU800, SB900), transmit it via radio, then convert it back to an optical signal for the slave (SB600, 800, 900,200)to read.

If you are going to all the trouble of a multi flash system though, you will probably get more reliable results using the Flashes in manual mode, which the cheapie radio systems can handle. You can control the light quite precisely. Just do a few trial runs to get the levels right. You only really need the CLS system if one of the remotes is out of reach. It is absolutely brilliant for adjusting the power of a flash unit taped to the ceiling

We're talking about radio poppers (which are not available in Oz, to my knowledge), and the grossly overrated and overly complex Nikon CLS and TTL flash ....

But we have yet to address the basics.

What are the (practical) problems that we're trying to address?

What are your actual shooting scenarios?

The cheap triggers work well, within the context of their (cheeeeeep) design. That may be all that is required.

Or it may not.

Please describe the shooting scenarios you envisage: let's solve the problem, rather than address ... design issues in the various products.

Aah, now thats a sensible way to ask a question, why didnt i think of that?

As I said before, I use one SB-600 both on camera and off camera with the wireless controller built into the D200 flash. Currently I use it for off camera flash on the light box, and sometimes in set up studio shots. I am moving more and more into action sports, and am looking at using the flash off camera for sports such as skating to get cool angles and mountain biking (sticking flash under jump) to get upwards lighting.

This is where the built in camera flash controller gets to become useless, when I stick the flash in the middle of a jump to get some upwards lighting, it doesnt fire as it needs line of sight. I am also looking at getting more than one slave flash in the future, but dont want to pay $400 for a slave flash when I can get a wireless radio system and buy a slave flash for $100.

So I am looking for a cheap slave flash to have more than one flash off camera cheaper than buying a SB-600 for each off camera flash, and I need to be able to trigger flash through objects, though not more than 20 metres away. I am fine using manual on my slave flashes and usually do that anyway, as I have more control.

It would appear you need

1. wireless (without needing line of sight)
2. cheap
3. No TTL
4. 20m reliability

Cactus triggers would qualify unless you wanted perfect reliability. Actually on second thought has anyone tested the cactus at 20m WITHOUT modding?

If your shoots are commercial you will need the reliability of the pocket wizards(no TTL) or radiopoppers(the only radio trigger to support TTL but for which you will need someone from USA to order and ship it for you and take the risk about not having any warranty)

There are other triggers which are Einchrom etc which are in between the Cactus and PW in terms of reliability.

Check the net for reviews of each prior to buying as anything except the Cactus are quite expensive. Consider also the different options with regards to battery replacement - Some are rechargable proprietary; some accept usual and unusual batteries.

From personal experience - Cactus trigger equivalent have a CR123 on the transmitter (lasts a few hundred shots) and AAA on the receiver which last one shoot but you can use rechargables.

Thanks for that, I was considering the Elinchrom Skyports a while ago, they seem quite good.
Any reason to why I shouldnt use them considering my requierments?

bwhatnall wrote:Thanks for that, I was considering the Elinchrom Skyports a while ago, they seem quite good.
Any reason to why I shouldnt use them considering my requierments?

Hi.
I have just returned the Elinchrom Skyport $300 a pair, due to quality issue, they do not have a safety hotshoe lock, (but they fit nicely) I didn't have much problem with its long range,very fidly button selections, antennas are too fragile (too soft, bendy). I've instead replaced it with Pocket Wizard plus II X2 ($600 + $18 PC cable a pair at Quality Camera Sales Australia 08 9581 3183) and the differences are WOW!!.. 100% sync. never n-missed a fire very easy to use. i just simply set my 580 EXII using PC cord and 430EX using IR hotshoe adapter ($35) to manual power output and adjust the beam width accordingly before i use trigger them remotely. if i need to make adjustments, rather than running around to each flashes, i'll just adjust my exposure in camera. the distance the PocketWizard plus II covers is just incredible, they're not cheap as the cybersync or the skyport devices but the PocketWizard plus II are transceivers and don't require seperate receivers and transmitters. And just last saturday a friend of mine who runs own business in kids photography and purchased cybersnyc overseas and it costed him $550 AUD - 1 transmitter and 2 receivers went and tried it and its TTL wireless. im no pro and still learning if you do not understand the lighting the use of TTL is useless.

I would just like to say that:

-that wireless commander is the SU-800 - apparently a flash that emits no light
-radio poppers have intrigued me - I like my CLS (I use it quite comfortably, each to their own)
-elinchrome skyports will probably suit your needs, you are not needing to punch through metres of concrete - radio waves will bend and/or penetrate to the bottom of jumps most (covering my arse here) of the time
-pocketwizards are EXY but are the best in wireless flash (non TTL)
-SB-800 (and I would images SB-900 and SU-800) commanders will not give you reliability over 20m - I have encountered problems over 6-10m

SO
I would say look into spending a little more money and getting either a SB-800 (my recommendation) or SB-900 or SB-600 and get a set of triggers (look at the elinchrome for quality and cactus for price - your call here). If you are really in a fix for $$ then grab a cheap NIssin or Sunpak and some cactus triggers, but you may find yourself buying again.

FOR THE RECORD
I use either my SB-800 or my pop up flash (D300) to trigger my SB-600 and SB-800 (when not used as a commander) via CLS for a lot of product style shooting (I am experimenting a lot with that recently), macro and protraiture (working with two off camera flashes is awesome!!). I dont claim to know much about lighting, but this is my view on the topic and how I would go about to finding a solution.

Cheers