Ballhead vs 3 Way Pan Tilt

[SuperJT]

Hi.

First post - be gentle

I'm in no position to buy as of yet (my job having been an early victim of the global economic meltdown - still looking) and I noticed that it had "sort of" been discussed in posts last year, but I will be looking for a tripod + head combo at some stage.

The philosophical argument for "Ballhead vs 3 Way Pan Tilt" has typically been "ease of use vs compactness". I've read a fair few threads here before posting and I get the impression that a fair percentage have gone the ballhead route. Have ballheads improved in the last year or so in terms of "ease of use" or is everyone just opting for the more compact option and is putting up with a little discomfort ? Are they really that much harder to use or it is just a matter of, like everything else, getting used to it ?

The biggest piece of gear that I would be putting on there would be my Canon 50D and my 100-400mm lens. Do people feel comfortable with gear that size or heavier on a ballhead ? If you get it wrong on a ballhead, it seems to me that you have a greater chance of damaging up your gear.

Opinions and philosophical discussion appreciated. Thanks in advance for your responses.

[NeoTiger]

I would've thought that the ballheads are easier to use than the pan-tilt heads. With the ball heads, you only need to loosen 1 knob and point the camera wherever you want.

Advantage of the pan-tilt would be more accuracy I guess, you can alter each axis independently.

[Pa]

I have both and prefer the three way tlit...I find with the sporting stuff I do I have a more stable platform....

[Mr Darcy]

I have both and prefer the three way tlit...I find with the sporting stuff I do I have a more stable platform....

Same here, but I prefer the ball head, but then the P&T is Velbon Screw-To-Camera and the BH is RRS Lever Plate, so that may well be a factor.

I would've thought that the ballheads are easier to use than the pan-tilt heads. With the ball heads, you only need to loosen 1 knob and point the camera wherever you want.

Not entirely true. MY RRS BH40 has three knobs. One knob allows for panning. One knob sets drag (how loose "loose" is.) This one is set & forget. THe third knob loosens the ball, and allows free motion - great for pointing, but pretty much useless for panning.

Try them both and go with the one that works for you

[gstark]

Hi, and welcome.

The biggest piece of gear that I would be putting on there would be my Canon 50D and my 100-400mm lens. Do people feel comfortable with gear that size or heavier on a ballhead ?

Ballheads come in a variety of sizes. Make sure that you get one that will carry the biggest lens that have (or will acquire) and then any issues that arise will most likely be due to user error.

A good ballhead is a good ballhead: we have a micro ballhead on my Manfrotto tabletop tripod, and it will very comfortable handle a Nikkor 80-400VR attached to a D300 sized body.

Advantage of the pan-tilt would be more accuracy I guess, you can alter each axis independently.

That is a significant advantage of the pan-tilt. If you're wanting to shoot a pano/stich, then you just loosen the pan screw and move the head accordingly. That said, most good ballheads will also have a pan control that floats just above the tripod mount, negating this advantage.

Cheaper pan heads may not move as smoothly as a ballhead, ad this may be problematic in setting up your shot(s).

[bwhatnall]

I personally prefer the 3-way-tilt, that way when panning for an event, I simply unlock movement on pan and height, and lock the rotation., therefor having a nice pan platform

[aim54x]

Just to be stupid now, i would love a good ball head (my 322RC2 pistol grip is annoying at times) like a 468MG which like Greg's (RRS BH40) ballhead has three knobs.

Ballheads and pistol grips are for quick adjustment, not accuracy (in general), Pan tilt heads offer more accuracy and ease of use, but for absolute accuracy I would vote a geared head.

So in the ideal world I would have both a good ball head (compact and quick - for normal work) and a geared head (ultra precise for stitch panos and the like).

[who]

Ballhead all the way - I have the RRS BH55 - and the 3 knobs as decribed for the RRS BH40 are the same.....

You can easily get it all level and then pan x degrees smoothly if that is what you desire, with the only better option being a full pano kit I reckon.

But it comes back to the quality of the head you buy, and the RRS > Manfrotto > others (as an example).

[SuperJT]

Well, still being unemployed I have approval from the better half (bless her) to use some of my KRudd money. I just can't afford the high end stuff like a RRS. I'm looking at Benro (I sort of caught Carbon Fiber Fever with the tripods) and in particular the J series, which apparently is their top end range. Benro as a brand just seems to polarise everyone. The general consensus seems to be that the legs are pretty good for the price but to be wary of the ball heads.

Given that the J series is their high end, has anyone got/used them and can you tell me anything about them ?

Please don't link that Tom Webster link again - It's been done to death and it's a 2 year old review that everyone keeps pointing to that as evidence that all products by the brand will always be crap. People will be pointing to that 5 years from now.

Gary, what is the micro ballhead that you mentioned that holds your 400 ?

[aim54x]

Just wondering what you ended up getting???

I was shooting with a friend the other night and his Manfrotto 190CX (Magfibre 190 series tripod) and 468MGRC2 setup I was feeling envious again!!!!

I still want either a Kirk, RRS or Markins though.

[photohiker]

468MGRC2

I had one of these and I really liked it apart from the camera plate. With everything locked down solid, I could still get movement between the camera and the plate. They use some sort of rubber infill in there and it's too flexible for my liking. There is also a lot more leverage between the camera and the plate than a Kirk style plate because the dimensions of the Manfrotto plate are quite a bit smaller. I even considered putting a Kirk or Markins plate system on the MGR but in the end I sold it for good money on ebay and bought a Markins.

Hope that helps rather than muddies the waters

Michael

[aim54x]

468MGRC2

I had one of these and I really liked it apart from the camera plate. With everything locked down solid, I could still get movement between the camera and the plate. They use some sort of rubber infill in there and it's too flexible for my liking. There is also a lot more leverage between the camera and the plate than a Kirk style plate because the dimensions of the Manfrotto plate are quite a bit smaller. I even considered putting a Kirk or Markins plate system on the MGR but in the end I sold it for good money on ebay and bought a Markins.

Hope that helps rather than muddies the waters

Michael

Thanks, I have the Markins M-20 at the top of my list atm but I have only done a bit of surface trawling/reading on the topic as I am not ready to buy yet (poor student with little funding). Which Markins do you have?? Do you use an L-Plate on yours?? L-Plates scare me a bit as they seem to be very bulky and expensive.

[Mr Darcy]

Do you use an L-Plate on yours?? L-Plates scare me a bit as they seem to be very bulky and expensive.

I use an RRS LPlate with my D200. Love it. It is barely noticeable under normal use. It is slightly annoying when I do portrait Tethered shooting as the USB cable gets in the way a bit. On balance though, I would never be without one again. Yes the price bothered me at the time. Don't even think about it anymore. Just think "This LPlate is great" EVERY time I connect to the tripod in Portrait mode (except when tethered as mentioned above)

[aim54x]

Do you use an L-Plate on yours?? L-Plates scare me a bit as they seem to be very bulky and expensive.

I use an RRS LPlate with my D200. Love it. It is barely noticeable under normal use. It is slightly annoying when I do portrait Tethered shooting as the USB cable gets in the way a bit. On balance though, I would never be without one again. Yes the price bothered me at the time. Don't even think about it anymore. Just think "This LPlate is great" EVERY time I connect to the tripod in Portrait mode (except when tethered as mentioned above)

I dont even leave the manfrotto QR plate on as I dont like having the hard edges on the grip (when I use the battery grip). I guess until I splash out and get one I will never know.....

[Mr Darcy]

Do you use an L-Plate on yours?? L-Plates scare me a bit as they seem to be very bulky and expensive.

I use an RRS LPlate with my D200. Love it. It is barely noticeable under normal use. It is slightly annoying when I do portrait Tethered shooting as the USB cable gets in the way a bit. On balance though, I would never be without one again. Yes the price bothered me at the time. Don't even think about it anymore. Just think "This LPlate is great" EVERY time I connect to the tripod in Portrait mode (except when tethered as mentioned above)

I dont even leave the manfrotto QR plate on as I dont like having the hard edges on the grip (when I use the battery grip). I guess until I splash out and get one I will never know.....

I don't use, or even have, a battery grip. I know RRS sell two different versions of the LPlate. One for camera with grip & one without. Starting to get VERY expensive

[SuperJT]

Just wondering what you ended up getting???

I ended up going with a Benro M257 and a KB-2 ball head thanks to the KRudd bonus. So far on the few times that I've used it, it's been great ! I would have loved to have used it more by now but it's been raining like it's going out of style since I got it

I'm looking forward to more long exposure night photos with this.

[aim54x]

Great to hear that your happy with your new tripod...quite a few members have got Benro's too (judging from the last 2x2 meet). I guess I am looking to go high end with my next head/tripod because I am scared that I will fall into the trap of buying mid-range and then finding it wanting.

[SuperJT]

I don't see myself as a high send/super pro so I'm quite happy with it as my first "proper" tripod. If I feel that I warrant it in the future (and the employment situation changes) then I may go higher end later on. For now, it works very, very well.

[aim54x]

I do know what you mean, I like my Manfrotto kit, but will have to look at getting a better head (ball head over the pistol grip). I guess I am a dreamer, because as much as I would like a RRS BH-55 or a Markins M-20 I would probably never buy one due to the cost, the overkill factor and the need for L-plates (RRS). I may just end up with another Manfrotto or a smaller RRS or Markins. I'll think about it when I actually have the money.

[radar]

... and the need for L-plates (RRS).

Note that you don't actually need the L-plate, just a generic arca-swiss plate will do. When I bought a Benro KB-1 ballhead a while ago, it came with a generic plate, fits on any camera, I've used it on a Canon G10, Nikon - D70s/D200/D700 and even on a Linhof 4x5 large format camera.

The L-plate is nice so you can quickly switch from landscape to portrait on the ballhead.

[SuperJT]

L Plate for a Benro ? Please explain (and post a pic preferably) ...

[photohiker]

I've got the Markins Q3 and M20. The Q3 is on my hike tripod and it's great. The M20 is also great and that sits on my standard Manfrotto CLB legs. I bought it because the dollars between the M10 and the M20 is pretty small, and I made a killing flogging off all my old tripod heads on ebay.

Bottom line is that I think I'd be just as happy with an M10. Like you, I don't use long heavy glass.

Markins sell Kirk style plates that have an interlock with the Markins ball heads. Other plates work fine though.

Michael

[radar]

L Plate for a Benro ? Please explain (and post a pic preferably) ...

The plate I was referring to was just a generic plate. The Kirk and RRS L-plates will fit on a Benro ballhead that has an arca-swiss type mount. The KB-2 will take an L-plate from Kirk or RRS, I have the KB-1 and those L-plates fit without a problem.

Does that answer your question?