How do you know when you're ready for paid work?

[kitchenwench]

I'm still very much an amateur photographer with only a very basic kit (450D, nifty fifty, 100mm macro, kit lens and flash gun), but recently I've been approached by quite a few people who've seen my photos and have asked whether I would do a paid shoot for them - one of these being for a wedding.

Knowing what a big event a wedding is and how devastated the bride would be if my photos weren't up to scratch, I turned that offer down, but the smaller offers (portrait shoots, gig & band shoots) do sound interesting. The question is - I don't know where to start with for pricing, what price I *should* be asking for my limited amount of experience, and whether my gear is even adequate to do any of this sort of shooting.

So, I guess what I'm asking is - how do you know when you're ready to start taking on paid work, and how do you price your time?

[sirhc55]

To answer the first question. When you can say to yourself “I can do this” then you are ready. I have, many times in the past, when asked by a prospective client whether I can do something or not my answer has always been YES. After saying yes to one request (I had no idea how to do it) I found the only person in Australia who knew the answer and phoned him. He gave me the answers which I later passed on to others who needed the information.

You will find many on this forum who will be more than willing to give helpful suggestions to any questions you may have.

On the second question I really have no idea other than to say that you should never cheapen your services by being too cheap.

[Raskill]

You'll know your ready when you say yes.

That shouldn't be sound flippant either. When you have enough faith in your skills, you'll say yes.

BUT, if you are going to shoot portraits or band gigs, or weddings for that matter, invest in some better glass, 1.4, 1.8, 2.0 and 2.8 glass will generally produce sharper images, and at lower ISO's. Also, another body or two, allows for redundancy, i.e. a failure. Imagine the worst that can happen to you shooting a gig, and prepare for it.

I was lucky, and got my first paying gig within weeks of getting some decent glass, and the relationship it formed still pays for gigs today. Was I worried, nervous or unsure of my abilities? Of course I was. Nothing like jumping in at the deep end, sink or swim etc.

[PiroStitch]

Just to share a different perspective - you won't know if you're ready until you get in there and go for it to see where you stand.

The first contract job is always the most intimidating but try and put that aside. You already have people approaching you which is great. There's no need to listen to that annoying voice in your head questioning whether you're ready or not, etc.

Go in, have a go and put the money factor aside. Most importantly have fun with it.

[Hudo]

Dear Kitchen Wench,

Worry about "are you ready" when when you get the job. mmmm I must mean I'm ready cause I have the job. then....

1.0 Research what's required / needed. Listen, read, discuss be a sponge.
2.0 Ask for help from friends, family or the photo community on tips and tricks, borrowing equipment or advice
3.0 Assist on a shoot be it professional or semi professional shoot.
4.0 Fake it to you make it and if your true to your craft you will.

I think you made a good choice not to do a wedding as your first paid gig. If your passionate about doing weddings offer to assist at a wedding as assistant or 2nd shooter first. Then see if it's for you and review the invest required to take the next step.

Hudo

[aim54x]

This is a great question, one that I have pondered myself for a long time. I have actually turned down a few requests on the basis that i lacked the confidence in doing the job. On the other hand I have been more than happy to do some free jobs for friends and they have never complained.

i will have to take the jump soon, ANYONE looking for an assistant?

[kitchenwench]

Raskill - When I have enough faith in my skill? Knowing myself, I may never have complete faith in my ability as I'm always fretting about my shots . Investing in better glass is definitely a priority before investing in another body, but not one that I can action at the moment due to other responsibilities...

Pirostitch - I've had an email today from someone who wants a very basic job - 1 hour shoot and 7 head shots...it sounds like a great beginner's paid gig and one that I think I could do, but they're asking me for a quote and I have no idea what sort of figure I should give them. Any advice?

Hudo - That's sort of the problem. If I wanted these jobs, I'd have them as these people are approaching me with direct requests to do the job...but I'm worried about taking a paid gig and not giving them their money's worth. I think weddings are probably something for the distant future, but thanks for the tip on trying to get experience as an assistant or 2nd shooter, I'll definitely bear those in mind

Aim54x - I'm in the same boat I've turned down most of the paid gigs (some I've said that I'd think about it), but I've done free portrait and band shoots for mates and they've all been thrilled with the outcomes...but then again, maybe it's because they were getting it for free? I don't know

[Grev]

I guess I'm the reverse, I know I'm ready, I just need a big break.

Depends on the type of photography, different types of mindsets and concepts will be needed, don't worry about your technical abilities, they'll improve as you go.

[jaff]

Kitchenwench if the wedding shoot is for friends, perhaps offer to take the candid shots of the day, they in my opinion are where the true character of the photographed come out!
You will probably find that you will have as many keepers as the contracted photographer, but without the pressure of missing "the shot" and it will probably give you the confidence to step up next time.

[kitchenwench]

Jaff - No, the wedding shoot request came from someone I don't know who had just seen my shots around the web. I've already turned that job offer down.

[devilla101]

Dear Kitchen Wench,

Worry about "are you ready" when when you get the job. mmmm I must mean I'm ready cause I have the job. then....

1.0 Research what's required / needed. Listen, read, discuss be a sponge.
2.0 Ask for help from friends, family or the photo community on tips and tricks, borrowing equipment or advice
3.0 Assist on a shoot be it professional or semi professional shoot.
4.0 Fake it to you make it and if your true to your craft you will.

I think you made a good choice not to do a wedding as your first paid gig. If your passionate about doing weddings offer to assist at a wedding as assistant or 2nd shooter first. Then see if it's for you and review the invest required to take the next step.

Hudo

I agree with Hudo 100%. Thats pretty much the basic steps I took to become the photog I am now. But if ever your doing a wedding, 'faking it' is not recommened. More like number 3.0 is a very strong recommendation.

[kitchenwench]

devilla101 - Faking it isn't my style, which is why I turned down the request for me to do the wedding shoot.

[devilla101]

devilla101 - Faking it isn't my style, which is why I turned down the request for me to do the wedding shoot.

Did you read my post clearly? I mentioned that if your doing a wedding I don't recommend faking it. I strongly recommended step 3.0 "Assist on a shoot be it professional or semi professional shoot."

[gstark]

Faking it isn't my style,

Biting my tongue.


Chris has the correct answer; for most jobs, the answer should be "yes".

Ask yourself why would it be otherwise?

[kitchenwench]

@devilla101: I read your post clearly but I think you've either misread my responses in this thread or made some sort of assumption from them. Hudo did put 'fake it' as a point but it doesn't sit well with me. The bit of advice that I particularly thanked him for in my original response WAS regarding getting experience as an assistant or 2nd shooter.

@gstark: Why bite? Say what you want. Why I've turned down almost all the job offers that I've received to date is because I simply don't have the confidence that I can produce photos that won't disappoint people who are paying for them. I know I'm very much a beginner when it comes to shooting with a dSLR and I try and take my gear out for a spin whenever I have time to try and push my skills and try new things, but I just don't know whether my current level of knowledge is worth accepting money for.

[sirhc55]

In which case I would suggest that you DO NOT take on any jobs. In this world you do not advance unless you take a chance(s). Your reply does suggest that now is not the time for you which makes the original question(s) irrelevant.

[devilla101]

So, I guess what I'm asking is - how do you know when you're ready to start taking on paid work, and how do you price your time?

Ok, I've just re-read your original post so let me give you my answer based on the above question and based on my experience. YMMV .

Answer: Basically when your confident enough to do so. When you can say with a straight face to that prospective client that for xxx job, it will cost you $xxx.

Don't let the lack of gear be an excuse for "Well I can't charge much cause I've only got this camera and this lens." Thats bullshit. Its what you deliver that will matter to that client. Make what you have now and slowly build up your equipment.

Anyway thats my short and sweet response.

[kitchenwench]

@devilla101: You're right, the lack of equipment shouldn't be an excuse and I shouldn't view it as much of a disadvantage. I do get into the habit of serious equipment envy and think 'oh, I could do so much more if I had XYZ' but the gear I currently have is not a bad starting point...so thanks for the wake up call

I think I have almost enough confidence to take on some paid portrait shoots...in terms of those, I think it's mostly nerves which are holding me back - the fact that I've never actually accepted a paid gig before (hell, this is a hobby that I can only sometimes make time for so I never even expected folks to come a-knocking!). I guess I won't really know where I stand till I accept that first job and see how I go!

[Murray Foote]

I think there are two quite separate issues here - the capacity to produce an image and the likelihood of being paid for it.

Equipment is not necessarily a determining factor. I've seen impressive prints from Holga images but on the other hand you wouldn't want to try to make a high resolution landscape with a Holga such as you might make with a D3x. Therefore, you need to understand what your equipment can and can't do (including post-processing). Reading the manuals from back to front is always a start. Experimenting in similar situations to your potential paid ones and producing appropriate output will help you understand and demonstrate what you can do. Imagination and creative vision are never a handicap.

Making money is a different matter, partly supply and demand and only partly related to image quality. Some people may be able to make money with low quality images that stroke egos at social occasions while some very fine photographers pursuing their own ends may find it very difficult to get an appropriate return. So, I think, try what you think you should and make sure you learn from it.

[gstark]

I think there are two quite separate issues here - the capacity to produce an image and the likelihood of being paid for it.

No, I don't agree.

It is evident from the initial post that the likelihood of getting paid is not an issue at all; that is more of a certainty than a likelihood.

Equipment is not necessarily a determining factor.

Equipment should never be a determining factor.

you need to understand what your equipment can and can't do (including post-processing).

And you need to be able to deal with any exceptions that may happen to cross your path.

Some people may be able to make money with low quality images that stroke egos at social occasions while some very fine photographers pursuing their own ends may find it very difficult to get an appropriate return.

While this is true, I think that it is unrelated to the initial question and the context within which it was asked.

[methd]

To answer the OP.

The amount you charge depends on:

1) How much ppl are willing to pay.
2) A price you're happy with that covers your costs and more.

And you know when you're ready when:
1) The client above accepts the price you've set above AND
2) You're confident you can replicate the shots the client has SEEN in your work/portfolio to a similar level, even if conditions change somewhat to make it more difficult for you.