Fast wide lenses?

[DaveB]

I'm still in love with my fast primes: currently an EF 50mm/1.8 (Mk.I) and EF 85mm/1.8 USM. But I'm considering my options for a wider lens. My main zooms are f/4 lenses, but this is especially for low-light work (consider the example of taking photographs of auroras from aboard a ship).
I need a wide view (and I'd be using it on a FF camera) and something with a very wide aperture would be nice. But at this point I can't justify spending AU$2400 on the EF 24mm/1.4 L II USM for example.

I'm currently considering the Sigma 24mm/1.8 (being a Sigma lens I'd of course be checking it works properly on my 5DmkII [and possibly the 7D] before investing) as the price is more like $600-700. f/1.8 is 2/3rds of a stop slower than f/1.4, but it's still 2+1/3rd stops faster than my f/4 lenses!

Does anyone here have experience or recommendations regarding fast wide lenses that will fit on an EOS body? Should I be considering the Sigma 20mm or 28mm f/1.8 lenses in preference to the 24mm? Anyone know of a bargain EF 24mm/1.4 Mk.I USM lying around?
Thanks

[photohiker]

There's always the Zuikos. Currently there is a 21/2 on ebay here at the moment.

I've got the 21/3.5 and it's sharp as a tack.

Michael

[gstark]

Michael,

Would the Zuikos offer the full functionality that Dave has stated he's looking for?

Dave,

As you're looking at the Sigmas, and you've mentioned the 28mm f/1.8, what about the Sigma 30 f/1.4? It's only 2mm longer, but gives you the extra optical speed.

And if you do consider going down the Zuiko path, also consider that some of the Nikkor primes will fit (with the appropriate adapter), will be very nice, and could be acquired for not too many PP.

[DaveB]

As you're looking at the Sigmas, and you've mentioned the 28mm f/1.8, what about the Sigma 30 f/1.4? It's only 2mm longer, but gives you the extra optical speed.

However it's what Sigma calls a "DC" lens: it's not full-frame. So on a 7D or 40D it's roughly equivalent to a 50mm on the 5D, which I've already got an f/1.8 for.

That Zuiko 21/2 on eBay looks like it will go for similar $$ to a 2nd-hand EF 24mm/1.4 USM, which does have the advantages of having AF and not requiring a lens mount adaptor.
But I will keep my eyes open for 3rd-party MF primes, thanks.

[Oz_Beachside]

I'd recommend the D3 adapter for your EOS, and get one of those 85mm f1.4D puppies!!!

[gstark]

However it's what Sigma calls a "DC" lens: it's not full-frame.

Of course. How silly of me.

[photohiker]

Does anyone here have experience or recommendations regarding fast wide lenses that will fit on an EOS body?

Michael,

Would the Zuikos offer the full functionality that Dave has stated he's looking for?

Gary,

I think so.

Out of the box, the Zuikos will not fit, they need an adapter. With an adapter they fit. Adapters with focus confirmation are available. I'm sure Dave knows all that. Of course the lens is manual everything on EOS. Whilst that might not suit Dave, it does fulfil the stated functionality.

Michael

[MATT]

Someone over at Ausphotograpghy was selling a 24 1.4 L a while ago.. Might be worth a look.

MATT

[MATT]

Ther si one on OCAU for $1325 also if that takes your fancy.

MATT

[DaveB]

Thanks for the pointers.

I got to play with the Sigma 20mm/1.8, 24mm/1.8, and 28mm/1.8 lenses this morning. Took a 5DmkII and a small tripod into Michaels in the Melbourne CBD and set it up on one of their counters.
Not amazing lenses (although the 20mm did seem a little better in some ways). I spent most time with the 24mm/1.8 (mainly as it was the one I was most interested in beforehand) but found a few issues:

AF worked fine on the 5DmkII. There did seem to be some back-focus, although I could calibrate for that in the camera.
The CA adjustments in ACR/Lightroom can't seem to cope with all the CA I found in the images. It did reduce it somewhat, but I was left with some funny stuff (i.e. the lens has some aberrations other than radial CA). It was some tricky point-source lighting in the store, but I do intend to be shooting things including stars with it...
The bokeh is not particularly nice wide open, although it's not unpleasant by f/3.5-4.0. As I want to be shooting down closer to f/2 (i.e. 4x the shutter speed at the same ISO) it's "sub-optimal".

Physically the focus mechanism on all 3 lenses is clumsy compared to all my other lenses (most of which have full-time manual focus override: even my Sigma macro). If in AF I decide to tweak the focus manually I need to flick the AF/MF switch on the side of the lens, plus engage the focus clutch by pushing/pulling the focus ring. I could leave the focus ring in the "MF" position, but then when the lens AF's the focus ring will be turning in my hand.

I haven't discounted these lenses entirely, but need to have a play with the Canon 24mm/1.4 and 28mm/1.8 lenses to decide about the tradeoffs (including price) associated with them.

Also I may have found an EF 24mm/1.4L USM (Mk.I) that might be available for a song in a couple of months, which could improve the cost side of that equation...

[DaveB]

Further update: I happened to be doing some casual shooting in a restaurant last night. Think 1/60s shutter speed, f/1.8, ISO 12800! It turns out this was a good simulation for some of the real-world scenarios I expect to encounter.

The lens I was using did not have full-time manual focus override (you have to flick the switch to MF or back to AF) and it taught me a lesson. Most of my own lenses do have this, and if AF is having a problem I can just manually turn the focus ring to tweak it. I can (and do) switch seamlessly between AF and MF on many of my shots already. But I've decided that in low light it's very important. For example I missed quite a few candid shots because I had to switch to MF and try to get someone's face in focus (which even with a fast lens and the 5DmkII's bright viewfinder was quite hard). Then more opportunities got lost while I was switching back to AF, etc.

So for me I've had to discount the Sigma wide/fast lenses: none of them use Sigma's HSM focus motor. In fact they're even worse as they have a two-stage focus selection mechanism. I've decided that I would be too frustrated: I'm not going to go there. This only leaves me three choices: Canon 28/1.8 USM or 24/1.4L USM (Mk.I or Mk.II).

Full-time manual focus override of AF:
Canon: USM (at least "ring-USM")
Sigma: HSM
Nikon: AF-S

Interestingly, there don't seem to be any wide and fast Nikon AF-S lenses (the closest thing is the 35mm/1.8G AF-S DX (which isn't wide at all: as a DX lens it's actually a "normal" focal length). Just as well I'm not trying to use a D700.

[Murray Foote]

Hi Dave

I just went through a similar process for Nikon (for a full-frame sensor). I started with a 16mm f3.5 AI fisheye, a 24mm f2.8 AI and a Vivitar Series 1 28mm f1.9 AI. I had particularly in mind shooting musicians from the side of the stage and "street photography", with a growing expectation that autofocus would be useful. Although all the other lenses I actually use are primes, I went for the 17-35mm f2.8 AF-S.

It seems sharp and the autofocus seems accurate. I'm just hoping the size won't be a handicap for the "street photography". Last year I got a few successful images by presetting the focus on the 24mm and wandering through a crowd with the camera at waist level. I'm wondering how well it might work in that circumstance to use autofocus on the 17-35mm with the camera selecting the focus point. I'll have to test for that in due course.

One thing that came home to me last night taking some images in a dimly lit bar is that matrix metering doesn't always work well. Some of the exposures showed a well exposed noticeboard in a small part of the background but all the people were black (the correctly exposed ones were around 1/20 sec 6400ISO (17mm) - maybe I should have gone to 1280ISO). I think I need to be more aware to sometimes use centre-weighted, perhaps especially with very wide angles.

Regards,
Murray

[DaveB]

Thanks for the input from the dark side.

Heh. I remember the days when I thought f/2.8 was fast! (and it is, in most contexts)
I'm anticipating using the lens a lot during the polar winter twilight, which is not what we would consider normal lighting here in Australia.
If I was prepared to put up with f/2.8 I'd probably use the EF 16-35mm/2.8 L USM. But I've been stung with the appeal of really fast lenses, and if I end up with an f/1.8 lens that I use stopped down to f/2, that's a whole stop faster than f/2.8. If I end up with an f/1.4 lens that I use stopped down to f/1.6 or f/1.8, that's one or two thirds of a stop faster again!
But focus will be critical at close distances, which is why AF and full-time manual override are important to me. BTW, I've decided those Sigma primes would need to be stopped down to at least f/2.8 for reasonable quality, which sort of defeats their purpose for me even without worrying about their AF mechanisms...

As for metering, I tend to use manual for almost everything so I'm not so worried. But interesting feedback regardless.

[DaveB]

I keep to-ing and fro-ing on this.

I got to play with a 28mm/1.8 in J-B (Hifi) Cameras (Elizabeth St, Melbourne). Set it up on my tripod (only took the small one into the store ) and took lots of test shots on the 5DmkII. It's a beautiful lens, and nice to use. Unfortunately it needs to be stopped down to at least f/2.8 to get decent quality on high-contrast areas (and even then it's iffy). For my intended use (star shots, etc) I've decided that this would be a recipe for disappointment, which feels like a shame as it's such a nice lens to use.

So it's only the 24mm/1.4L lens left on the list (either Mk.I or Mk.II - I think for the cost difference I can be happy using a Mk.I lens that has to be stopped down to f/1.6 !).

Now I just need to spend the money...