Playing with White Balance

[KerryPierce]

These 2 shots were taken within a few minutes of each other. The first one was taken using the Cloudy WB, the 2nd was with Flash WB presets in the camera.

Nikon D70 ,Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 EX DC
1/80s f/11.0 at 18.0mm ISO 200 hand held



Nikon D70 ,Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 EX DC
1/80s f/11.0 at 18.0mm ISO 200 hand held

[Greg B]

Quite a difference Kerry! Nice shot(s) too, looks like your trademark landscape!

There was a thread (which I now can't find - or was it a link...) which showed that two of the WB settings in camera have been reversed.

Anybody remember where that was?

[Nikkofan]

Greg

I think it's in one of the White Balance tutorials.

[SoCal Steve]

Quite a dramatic difference. Both very nice in their own right, but I'm partial to the first image because of the colors and the foreground details.

Does anyone have experience or preferences of in-camera vs PS Camera Raw white balance adjustments? Can adjustments in PS Raw settings be as effective and dramatic as this shows the in-camera settings to be?

[KerryPierce]

Quite a difference Kerry! Nice shot(s) too, looks like your trademark landscape!

There was a thread (which I now can't find - or was it a link...) which showed that two of the WB settings in camera have been reversed.

Anybody remember where that was?

Thanks, Greg. I'm putting together a bunch of Detroit shots for some local art galleries. So, I've been concentrating on various shots of the city for the last couple of months. I'm hoping to find a few buyers to help support my habit.

Besides, there's not much else here to shoot without driving a couple of hours out of the metro area.

Haven't heard about the WB presets being switched. I'll have to look for the tutorial Nikko mentioned. Thanks for that!

[Greg B]

Well done nikko, yes it is in the tutorial. The flash and cloudy presets have apparently been reversed!

I really like your Detroit shots Kerry, the lake and the dramatic skies are rich pickings, and you capture them beautifully. Good luck with the plan.

[ajax]

http://forum.d70users.com/viewtopic.php?t=2103&highlight=cloudy+flash+white+balance

[Nikkofan]

Well done nikko, yes it is in the tutorial.

Thank God! - Maybe there's hope for the old brain yet!

[KerryPierce]

hmm, having read the tutorial, now I'm confused.

If the Flash and Cloudy presets were switched, wouldn't that mean that my photos should also be reversed? The first one is Cloudy and has more red/yellow. The second one is Flash and is definitely more blue than the first.

rats.... Now I'll have to dig out the originals and make sure that I didn't do something in post to alter the WB to that degree. Best I can recall is that I simply enhanced the colors that were already there. But, I'll double check to make sure. You know, they say the memory is the 2nd thing to go as you get older.......

[mudder]

beep, beep, beep... Dumb question alert!!!

When it comes to the ol' mix-up between the flash and cloudy WB setting, I assume with JPEGS the mix-up is actually applied to the image, whereas with NEFs the mix-up is bypassed because the WB is performed by your software which does not have the same issue???

Confused Mudder

[KerryPierce]

hmm, having read the tutorial, now I'm confused.

If the Flash and Cloudy presets were switched, wouldn't that mean that my photos should also be reversed? The first one is Cloudy and has more red/yellow. The second one is Flash and is definitely more blue than the first.

rats.... Now I'll have to dig out the originals and make sure that I didn't do something in post to alter the WB to that degree. Best I can recall is that I simply enhanced the colors that were already there. But, I'll double check to make sure. You know, they say the memory is the 2nd thing to go as you get older.......

Well, no, apparently reading comprehension is the 2nd thing to go... My shots do demonstrate that the WB presets are reversed. Cloudy should have more blue than flash and it doesn't, even in the originals.

So, when I said I was confused, I was certainly right! I think it's time to hit the sack and get some sleep before I step on it again.

[Greg B]

mudder, when you open a NEF in PS, it starts in the RAW dialog box with the WB chosen by the camera, but you can change it. So the answer is yes and no, or no and yes, or probably.

But with jpegs, the answer is, you are stuck with it.

[mudder]

mudder, when you open a NEF in PS, it starts in the RAW dialog box with the WB chosen by the camera, but you can change it. So the answer is yes and no, or no and yes, or probably.

But with jpegs, the answer is, you are stuck with it.

Thanks Greg,
Does that mean that when opening the NEF in Nikon Capture, if the WB is left as "camera" or "as shot" (or what-ever it's called) Nikon Capture applies the same erroneous WB, where-as if you set it to other than camera (or what-ever) then it's OK (ie: not mixed up)? That implies the WB applied to the NEF as a tag by the camera is set as a color temp rather than a WB type (like cloudy, shade etc)?

JPEGs I assume you ain't got no choice, as it's already applied...

Cheers

[KerryPierce]

Here are some more images that I took yesterday.

The first one is Direct Sunlight WB and the 2nd is Flash. The flash shot is certainly more red than the Sun shot, so it looks like my camera takes flash even more red than the one used in your tutorial...

This was bothering me and couldn't go to bed until I got this straight too. I couldn't figure out why the flash shot turned out pink...

[Greg B]

Not sure about NC Andrew, but I assume you could change it, and you can see it happen, so you are going to get what you want anyway. I think.

[Greg B]

That's a great old fire truck Kerry!

[KerryPierce]

Thanks Greg, but which color do you perfer, the pink or blue?

This old truck is now owned by a restaurant and is permanently parked in the corner of their parking lot on the trailer. It's very cool to look at, but is in a terrible place to photograph.

[mudder]

G'day Greg,
Yep you can change it, it just defaults to "as shot" or "camera" or what-ever, was just curious...

I *think* when I've changed it from "camera" cloudy to Nikon Capture's version of cloudy, I *think* you can see the difference... That probably explains where the issue is, ie: in camera and not in the settings/color temps that Nikon Capture uses for the same settings...

Thanks for the info...

Cheers

[Greg B]

I prefer the blue one Kerry, the bluer sky works better, IMHO, with the red of the truck.

And yes, it does look like a tricky spot. Youhave worked hard to minimise distractions I think.

[fozzie]

Hi Kerry,

I prefer the first shot 'Direct Sunlight WB' of the fire truck.

If you can not work it out why there is a difference, what hope is there for us mere mortals

[KerryPierce]

Hi Kerry,

I prefer the first shot 'Direct Sunlight WB' of the fire truck.

If you can not work it out why there is a difference, what hope is there for us mere mortals

Hi Fozzie,

Sorry, I was making an attempt at humor with the question on preference of the fire truck shot. Obviously, I was a little too obtuse. My brain was mush from being too tired last night. I too, am a mere mortal, which is just fine by me.

As for working out the difference, the problem I was alluding to was the distinct magenta cast to the Flash WB shot. Both shots are straight out of the camera, only being resized, so there's no issues with post processing. The Flash WB should have been close, but slightly cooler than the Daylight WB shot. Obviously, it is not. I don't know color temp is being used by the Flash WB preset, but it is obviously not close to 5400k. I'll not be using that preset again for daylight shots.

This has been a very instructive thread for me and I'm happy that I learned something significant.

[kipper]

Kerry, it's amazing what WB will do for a landscape. I was using the clouds as a white balance preset when I was in the UK and then taking photos and the dramatic clouds came out quite vivid with lots of orange from the sun reflecting off of them. Changed in NCE the WB to Calculate Automatically and while the greys looked quite neutral and the white looked snow white, the scene turned from dramatic and colorful to boring.