The old "which tripod?" question....

[cyanide]

... and before you scold, yes, I did a search first.... in fact, I think I've just read every thread here that contains the word 'tripod'... So I have absorbed a fair bit of forum members' thoughts on this issue, and it seems like a few people have been through this decision process already. I have only previously owned a crappy aluminium tripod that a friend gave me, so I would appreciate any advice anyone might have.

LEGS

Firstly, please let me go through some of my own thought processes that have led me to this point.

In terms of photography styles, it's probably easier to say what I probably WON'T use it for much - sports/action. That said, I will take photos of +1 playing soccer, but probably hand-held with VR... Otherwise: landscapes/nature, street photography, candids/portraits, macro... they are probably the main ones. Not *so* much wildlife - the lenses required are too .

My biggest lense at the moment (or at least, soon!) is/will be the 70-200VR. I can't really see myself going down the 500mm route, but you never know, I *might* stretch as far as a 300mm one day. I like fast lenses, so it would be the f/2.8, which is about 4.5kg.

Of course, I have the D70 body. But as I would like to get a setup that I am not going to "outgrow", I have factored in the weight of the D2x body... not because I even think I will get one, but just because that would be the upper limit of anything I do get, in the future. So that's 1.2kg.

Plus I might want to mount my SB-800, which is just under 1kg (with batteries). So far, that's a max total of just under 7kgs. I would expect the final maximum weight to be a bit higher once you factor in ballhead, plates, possibly a Wimberly Sidekick or a flash bracket... but I don't know how heavy all that stuff is. So I figure a max weight of about 8kg is a reasonable guess at my requirements?

I also know that I want to go down the "do it right first up" path, and get THE tripod setup that is going last me for (hopefully) many many years to come.

I have been swayed by Birddog's preachings, so for legs I am looking at these Gitzo options at the moment:

Mountaineer MkII Series 3 G1325
Mountaineer MkII Series 2 G1227
Leveling tripod G1227LVL
Explorer Series 2 CF G2227 (although this one only has a max weight of 6kg...)

They all seem very similar in folded length and weight, so I figure there's nothing really to split them, in that regard.

So - some questions:

1.... I am 171cm tall. I thought these models would be in the right height range for me (without using a centre pole). Is that right? Are any of these too short for me?

2.... Do any of them (all of them?) have markings on the legs so that you can easily ensure, in times when you do not fully extend, the legs are all the same length?

3.... Are the G1227 and the G1227LVL essentially the same legs, but with a levelling column attachment? If so, is that levelling attachment useable on other legs? (eg as an option on the G1325... wouldn't be for daily use, just curious...)

4.... Without a centre column, does the G1325 still have the hook (for ballast etc?)

5.... Ummmm... just: am I on the right track?

I like the 1325 but wonder if the others have good functionality that I would miss?

I will probably look at getting my +1 one of the new Gitzo travelling tripods, when they come out, as a pressie (he needs a new tripod, and doesn't need a huge one as he only has a Sony F828) and then we (I!! hehe) can just take that one, with a QR plate each, if we want to travel light...


BALLHEAD

For a ballhead, I am probably going to just grit my teeth, nurse the wallet and get a Markin M-20 or a RRS BH55 (not sure which version, yet). Are these too "high-end" for me? Should I consider others?

And I will get an L-plate. And an LCF-10. And a hotshoe spirit level. Oh god, I don't even want to know how much all this is going to cost. Ugh.

Is there anything else I should consider getting? (Not necessarily straight away, but at some point...)


Thank you for reading my latest essay. Sorry folks.

[cyanide]

Oh, and one more question: If you get a 1325, then decide that for some reason you want a centre pole, can you just add one and it technically "becomes" a 1327? Or is their structure actually different?

Many thanks

[kipper]

Hi Cyanide. I've currently got the Gitzo G1325 on order, and I believe you can add different columns to them as they're part of the Pro Series of tripods which have interchangable centre columns.

I'm current going with this setup for my D70 as I plan to do a fairbit of pano work.

Gitzo G1325 Tripod
Gitzo G1321 Levelling Base
Markins M-20 Ball Head (might replace at some stage with RSS BH55Pro but the 6-8 week backorder when I was ordering put me off)
RSS BD70L L-Plate
RSS LCF-10 Replacement Foot for the 70-200VR
RSS MPR-CL
RSS MPR-CLII
RSS Hotshoe Spirit Level

The sad thing is that lot almost cost as much as my 70-200VR

[birddog114]

The sad thing is that lot almost cost as much as my 70-200VR

kipper,
It's just a small change which was left after your Europe trip

[cyanide]

kipper, that's the way I am leaning for the legs, actually - the 1325. I've not done many panos before but I might consider the 1321 as an add-on later. The replacement lens collar foot and L-plate are pretty much done deals.

If you were to go with the RSS BH-55 ballhead, you would go the Pro? Why not the quick release?

[birddog114]

If you were to go with the RSS BH-55 ballhead, you would go the Pro? Why not the quick release?

Cyanide,
The BH-55 BH are all the BH-55PRO with QRP (Quick Release Plate) and it comes in with two versions and depend on your choice:
The screw knob and the lever clamp.
Nothing difference in them, but I like the knob and you may like the lever.

[cyanide]

Sorry, yes , I should have said "why not the lever version".
But, personal preference - a fair enough reason. Don't know which I'd choose, actually.

[birddog114]

Sorry, yes , I should have said "why not the lever version".
But, personal preference - a fair enough reason. Don't know which I'd choose, actually.

Toss the coin!

[cyanide]

It may well come down to that, Birddog!!

[theK]

1.... I am 171cm tall. I thought these models would be in the right height range for me (without using a centre pole). Is that right? Are any of these too short for me?

2.... Do any of them (all of them?) have markings on the legs so that you can easily ensure, in times when you do not fully extend, the legs are all the same length?

3.... Are the G1227 and the G1227LVL essentially the same legs, but with a levelling column attachment? If so, is that levelling attachment useable on other legs? (eg as an option on the G1325... wouldn't be for daily use, just curious...)

4.... Without a centre column, does the G1325 still have the hook (for ballast etc?)

5.... Ummmm... just: am I on the right track?

I'll try to help.

1. I think you're gonna have to measure the height of your eyes (not your body height), and compare it with the tripod-height (centre column not extended) + ballhead-height + height of camera's viewfinder. This is what I did, and I settled with Gitzo G1227 MkII carbon fibre. For a 183cm-tall guy, I only have to bend down my neck a bit to look thru a D70 on the 1227. But I rarely use the tripod at its max height anyway, so I can live with bending my neck a bit. My goal of using a tripod is to get stability, and most of the time, I use it at 1/3 or 2/3 height to get a unique low-angle perspective.

Of course, this is taking measurebating to the max, but since you want to 'get the right tripod the first time', like me, you're gonna have to take some measurements first.

2. No markings on the legs. But I don't find this to be a negative.

3. CMIIW, but I don't think the levelling attachment of the 1227LVL can be removed. It'x fixed. I personally don't need it, since some have commented that it can slow you down in the fields. Besides, I'm in the 'minimise use of centre column' group, hence the choice of 1227 nonLVL.

4. I don't have the 1325, so I can't comment on this.

5. I think you are on the right track. Just take those measurements mentioned above to help you make your decisions.
--

I am happy I ended up with the G1227, and Markins M10 (plus the PG-33 plate for D70. The new one is PG-34, I think) with screw Quick Release. It's such a joy to use. Very sturdy, light, quick to adjust. Coupled with an OP/Tech USA tripod strap, I hardly feel I'm carrying a tripod on my shoulder.

Hope that helps.

[theK]

I forgot to add my opinion on ballhead choices. IMO, I'd recommend the M10,which is rated to handle a load close to 40kg, and USD135 cheaper than the RRS BH-55, which is rated to handle around 25kg of load. The M10 truely has value for money.

The BH-55 craftmanship is very good. But IMO, the two notches are too close to each other, and even though the low profile is a good idea to have more stability, it exposes the ballhead to dirts even more than the Markins models.

Also, I've read a user's experience on how the low-profile design of the BH-55 may have some drawbacks on Gitzo tripods when used without a center column. Since some Gitzo tripods have wide top base, your camera may not be able to flop perfectly on the notches of the BH-55, for you to be able to frame a perfectly vertical shots since there is not enough clearance. But I guess if you can afford a BH-55, most likely you'd have L-plates as well, and not need those notches.

And I think the BH-55 is heavy. Load to weight ratio of the Markins (M10/20) is 78:1, whereas it's 27:1 for the BH-55.

[cyanide]

Appreciate you taking the time to comment, theK - many thanks, and I will certainly factor in your advice.

Can the legs of Gitzo tripods (eg 1227/1325) be adjusted to whatever length you like, or are there set knotches /lengths that you have to extend them to? (If that question makes any sense...)

[theK]

Appreciate you taking the time to comment, theK - many thanks, and I will certainly factor in your advice.

Can the legs of Gitzo tripods (eg 1227/1325) be adjusted to whatever length you like, or are there set knotches /lengths that you have to extend them to? (If that question makes any sense...)

Not a problem. Glad to be some sort of help to a fellow D70 user.

I just noticed that you are in South Korea. That makes the ballhead choice even easier towards the Markins product, since the delivery cost would be very little. It cost me USD20 to get it shipped to Australia. You probably can pick it up straight from Mr. Mah (the owner & designer of Markins) .

Yep, you can adjust the Gitzo legs to any length. The Gitzos are built to such precision that you can hear a hissing sound, as the air being sucked into the legs when you extend them. My brother's Manfrotto 190CL's leg will 'fall'/extend to its full length (thanks to gravity) when I've unscrew the knob loose enough. My gitzo doesn't do this.

[theK]

One more thing.

Buy insulation foam tube and cut it down to desired length and use them as the legs wrap. I got mine at a hardware store for around AUD10 (for a 5metres length). This makes carrying the tripod such a breeze, and you don't need to worry about banging and breaking your precious carbon fibre tripod while carrying it.

[birddog114]

The G1325 can be added or removed the the center column by purchasing the G1321 Levelling base. I have the G1325.

The G1227 is my choice instead of G1227LVL, cos I don't need the levelling in this tripod and it's not convenience for me to use in the field, I also have it as my second tripod.

I also have the G1027 + RRS BH-25, just for fun with the D70 mounted on it with 80-400VR or some micro lenses as Tamron 180 Di or Nikon 200/f.4.

Also, I've read a user's experience on how the low-profile design of the BH-55 may have some drawbacks on Gitzo tripods when used without a center column. Since some Gitzo tripods have wide top base, your camera may not be able to flop perfectly on the notches of the BH-55, for you to be able to frame a perfectly vertical shots since there is not enough clearance. But I guess if you can afford a BH-55, most likely you'd have L-plates as well, and not need those notches

.


The BH-55PRO is one of my top line ballhead and I love it with its built and it's on my G1325 most of the time + Sidekick, even without the L bracket, just the camera bracket, It still provide perfectly on the notches of the BH-55 with my D70/D100/D2h and my new D2x. I have all camera bracket and L bracket for each camera body.

The Markins 10 is just their base model, to small for your future use if you want to upgrade you system later, even with the Markins 20, it looks funny on the G1325 not well balance on other tripods, fozzie one of our members had to order extra parts to make it right with his G1327 after I pointed out to him the weakness points of the Markins 20 on the G1327.

I used the Markins 20 with short lenses and once with the 70-200VR +TCs + RRS flash brackets, I'm not happy with it then I bought the BH-55PRO.
I have The Acratech Ultimate Ballhead (AUB) and it's my spare Ballhead, same rate with the Markins 10, I did not go with the Markins 10 cos the tall of it not help me much with the long and heavy lenses
The Markins 20 is always on the G1227 for medium body as D70/ D100 and some short focal lenght, so I have 3 heads in total in my inventory.

The BH-55 craftmanship is very good. But IMO, the two notches are too close to each other, and even though the low profile is a good idea to have more stability, it exposes the ballhead to dirts even more than the Markins models.

When you have the Markins 10/20 line up with BH55PRO, you can see the weakness of Markins clearly in both engineering and precisely, the Markins 's style is similar to Kirk or Arca Swiss heads but the RRS is totally difference design, all ballhead exposed to dust, dirts or other but all of them have excellent seals, I displayed and used both Markins + BH55PRO extensively and have no problem with any movements or the ball scratched, the BH55 has 3 Knobs and two cuts, the Markins only has two knobs and the tension adjust in on the main knob which I never prefer & like after I acquisited the BH55.

One of our members has the Arca Swiss Ballhead (huynhie) the its ball scratched, it's not caused by dust, dirt or other stuff, it was scratched by some internal mechanism. he sent it back for repair but now he ordered the RRS BH55PRO after he tested and play with my BH55PRO.

THE AUB head displays its ball 100% but never heard any report of the ball get scratched, MHD has one and travelled with him thru NZ with all the harsh conditions.

If you intent to upgrade your sytem down the track, go for the Markins 20 instead of, if you think you'll get the 300/400/600 mm lens then save up and get the BH55 PRO with knob or lever clamp., and all the brackets same as other replacement feet for the long lenses.

To protect the tripod or "keep it warm in winter" go for this:
http://www.optechusa.com/product/detail ... CT_SUB_ID=
I have this on my two tripods (G1325 + G1227)

[theK]

...
I also have the G1027 + RRS BH-25, just for fun with the D70 mounted on it with 80-400VR or some micro lenses as Tamron 180 Di or Nikon 200/f.4.
...

How's the BH-25, Birddog?

...
The BH-55PRO ... still provide perfectly on the notches of the BH-55 with my D70/D100/D2h and my new D2x. I have all camera bracket and L bracket for each camera body.
...

That's good to know, even with a big camera such as the D2X.

...
When you have the Markins 10/20 line up with BH55PRO, you can see the weakness of Markins clearly in both engineering and precisely...

Can you please elaborate on the weakness that you observed? Coupled with a TB-20/30, I think it's quite a stable set up. Specification-wise, isn't the load capacity of the M20 significantly much better than the BH55PRO?

I have The Acratech Ultimate Ballhead (AUB) and it's my spare Ballhead, same rate with the Markins 10

I understand if you rate it the same as the M10, if based on comparing prices. But featurewise, isn't the M10 much2 better than the Acratech? I find that that weird 45-degrees ballhead-chamber design is limiting, whereas the M10 is more flexible. The AUB is only rated to handle load of 11.4kg, whereas the M10 can top up to 40kg.

To protect the tripod or "keep it warm in winter" go for this:
http://www.optechusa.com/product/detail ... CT_SUB_ID=
I have this on my two tripods (G1325 + G1227)

Considered those, nicely cut to sizes. But my foam tubes are so much cheaper and thicker . And I could shape them to sizes (just the end parts) by rubbing hot metal on them.

[birddog114]

1/ Gary and myself mounted his D70 with the 80-400VR on the BH-25 and set it on a Man. table top tripod, it's sturdy and works well same as on the G1027.

2/You'll be surprised if you have an opportunity to see my setup with the Wimberley Sidekick integrated with the BH55Pro on the G1325 and have the D2h + 200-400VR. Solid as welded steel frame.

3/ I rated the AUB similar to the Markins 10 cos I have the AUB and one of our member (pluckaduck) has one, side by side comparison, they're the same performance, even the AUB looks strangely with its design. The rated to handle is just one of the theory and never have anyone got the real life limitation test over 20Kgs of one setup the camera + lens, flash bracket, flashes under the harsh condition as windy, snowy, rough ground.
With me anyone can say this only handle 10Kg and other can handle 40Kgs is non sense, you never have any kind of camera gear up to 40Kgs on the head.
I have my D2h and 200-400VR + Wimberley Sidekick on the AUB with open shooting in the field + windy condition, it's perform is just OK but not great as the BH55PRO.

4/ The Markins 20 is the same league with Arca Swiss B1 series, taller than the BH55, the markins ball is just 40 and the ball on the BH55 is 55, so size does matter with load, movement with axis, especially with the big lenses, if you don't have the big lenses then you never know what it like.
The TB20/30 is an additional adaptor to fill the gap in between the base of the head and the top plate of the tripod, it looks nice when you have the
1227LVL or G1327, provided more stability for the head and gears but they are separate part and it's cost US$82.00 + shipping and other charges.
The Markins 20 equipped with the TB20 or 30 won't beat the BH55 in solidity, stability, sturdy, and flexibility with three control knobs and two cuts + the low profile of the the BH55 with the long and big zoom or prime lenses
To take into account the Markins 20 is: US$390.00 + $82.00 = US$472.00 The BH55Pro is $415.00 + shipping.

5/ The way of your doing the foam tubes is cheaper, I agreed, thicker? I don't know how is it, but the one I have from Optech USA is thicker enough, I want little bit slim than its original + "the thermal sock" comes with it make the beauti of the setup. I can afford the G1325 + lot of bit & pieces + the D2 series cameras then the cost of buying some stuff ready made or well designed did not reach my concerning.

Say, you can afford to buy the BMW X5 are you bother with few extra grands to have the GPS and other gadgets installed

[birddog114]

And please don't for get to have one of these Gitzo bag in your collection for the legs:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/control ... 379&is=REG

This bag comes with strap and last for life! I have one and fozzie has one also

[cyanide]

Many thanks for all the replies. This is helping a lot.

To revisit an earlier question:

Without a centre column, does the G1325 still have the hook (for ballast etc?)

I like the idea of being able to hang a bag from it, more for convenience than ballast, actually...

[Onyx]

Nup, you're gunna have to sling something across the three legs for weight methinks.

[gstark]

1/ Gary and myself mounted his D70 with the 80-400VR on the BH-25 and set it on a Man. table top tripod, it's sturdy and works well same as on the G1027.

Yep.

We need to try the sidekick on the manfrotto tabletop!

[birddog114]

cyanide,
you have to think how heavy your equipments are? if you just have the 200-400 and D70 on the G1325 then there's no needed to sling any bag to the legs. That what the G1325 was designed for.

[huynhie]

If you are going to buy a gitzo with the equipment that you have now then the 1325 is the best bet. I would not get the centre column for this tripod as it is pretty tall with the legs fully extended.

I would not get the 1227LVL if your are using a ballhead as the ballhead will over-ride the levelling base. The 1227 is ok but has this ugly chrome lever that hangs out from the top of the tripod.

[cyanide]

Thanks, guys. I do think the 1325 are the way to go for legs. Birddog, I was more wanting the hook for convenience, not for ballast, but as someone else mentioned, I suppose I can get one of those pouchy-things that hang off the three legs.

Will send you an email today. Next - the ballhead decision....

[huynhie]

Cyanide,

you don't really require the hook, it is sturdy enough as is.

[cyanide]

Ah, yes, I am sure it is - I was just being lazy and thought like it sounded like a good place to hang a camera bag etc...

[birddog114]

Ah, yes, I am sure it is - I was just being lazy and thought like it sounded like a good place to hang a camera bag etc...

Then you created youself problems and no warranty covered

[cyanide]

I realise this is a moot point because we have established that the 1325 doesn't have a hook anyway, but I am curious...

What do you mean here, Birddog? Why would hanging something from the hook cause a problem? (Isn't that what hooks are for?? )

[birddog114]

I realise this is a moot point because we have established that the 1325 doesn't have a hook anyway, but I am curious...

What do you mean here, Birddog? Why would hanging something from the hook cause a problem? (Isn't that what hooks are for?? )

The G1325 does not have a hook as mentioned, how can you hook your bag onto it? if you modified the tripod then its warranty is void!
Who's in the world use the hook on the G1325?

[cyanide]

 LOL - no, don't worry, I am certainly not considering trying to modify my future 1325!!

My mistake, crossed wires - it seemed to me that you were saying that if you hang anything from a Gitzo tripod hook, it voided the warrenty. Thanks for the clarification!

[Jenno]

Cyanide,

Completely off topic but is your avator the Kiama lighthouse?

Ray

[birddog114]

Cyanide,

Completely off topic but is your avator the Kiama lighthouse?

Ray

Jenno,
Soory to hijack! it's in Korea I think it called Nam San tower! Please correct me if I'm wrong Cyanide.

[cyanide]

Sorry Birddog - my location and avatar are at odds

Hi Ray/Jenno,

The picture is indeed the Kiama lighthouse, taken during a driving holiday a year or so ago. Lovely area.

Cheers,
Rae

[theK]

I can afford the G1325 + lot of bit & pieces + the D2 series cameras then the cost of buying some stuff ready made or well designed did not reach my concerning.

Say, you can afford to buy the BMW X5 are you bother with few extra grands to have the GPS and other gadgets installed

Different mindset, I guess. For me, if I can buy a similar item that does the same job for less money, why not? I can spend it on other things such as food, movies, etc.

[birddog114]

I can afford the G1325 + lot of bit & pieces + the D2 series cameras then the cost of buying some stuff ready made or well designed did not reach my concerning.

Say, you can afford to buy the BMW X5 are you bother with few extra grands to have the GPS and other gadgets installed

Different mindset, I guess. For me, if I can buy a similar item that does the same job for less money, why not? I can spend it on other things such as food, movies, etc.

As I mentioned, everyone has difference taste and choice!
I go overseas with my family two or three times a year, eating out twice or more a week and entertain my friends of this forum every Saturday and I'm enjoying with all my gears same as my spending!
I repeat: Once I'm in the wooden box, I'm happy that I have and enjoy all!

[huynhie]

I can afford the G1325 + lot of bit & pieces + the D2 series cameras then the cost of buying some stuff ready made or well designed did not reach my concerning.

Say, you can afford to buy the BMW X5 are you bother with few extra grands to have the GPS and other gadgets installed

Different mindset, I guess. For me, if I can buy a similar item that does the same job for less money, why not? I can spend it on other things such as food, movies, etc.

As I mentioned, everyone has difference taste and choice!
I go overseas with my family two or three times a year, eating out twice or more a week and entertain my friends of this forum every Saturday and I'm enjoying with all my gears same as my spending!
I repeat: Once I'm in the wooden box, I'm happy that I have and enjoy all!

"Carpe Diem" as the old saying goes Birddog

[gstark]

Different mindset, I guess. For me, if I can buy a similar item that does the same job for less money, why not? I can spend it on other things such as food, movies, etc.

But that begs the question - can the other product do the same job?

While I'm quite happy with my Manfrotto, I know that its head simply cannot do the same job as one of even the low-end ballheads.

That bothers me not, because that's not the sort of photography I generally do, but I do accept that there are shortcomings, and so doing, I'm stating quite categorically that it cannot do the same job.

[theK]

But that begs the question - can the other product do the same job?

While I'm quite happy with my Manfrotto, I know that its head simply cannot do the same job as one of even the low-end ballheads.

That bothers me not, because that's not the sort of photography I generally do, but I do accept that there are shortcomings, and so doing, I'm stating quite categorically that it cannot do the same job.

The Birddog's quote that I was replying to, was the part when he was talking about him preferring ready-made items, the OPTECH leg wraps instead of the foam tubes , gstark. .

[gstark]

But that begs the question - can the other product do the same job?

While I'm quite happy with my Manfrotto, I know that its head simply cannot do the same job as one of even the low-end ballheads.

That bothers me not, because that's not the sort of photography I generally do, but I do accept that there are shortcomings, and so doing, I'm stating quite categorically that it cannot do the same job.

The Birddog's quote that I was replying to, was the part when he was talking about him preferring ready-made items, the OPTECH leg wraps instead of the foam tubes , gstark. .

While I accept what you're saying, that is not the context of the quote you included in that response, which started with the words "I can afford the G1325".

That said, so what?

Which part of your clarification nullifies what I've said? I'm not trying to be obtuse; I'm just enjoying the vigorous discussion.

[theK]

I should've included the whole section when quoting him. My mistake.

I agree with what you were saying regarding ballheads. No argument there.

[MadMikey]

Can someone tell me if the Markin M10 head will fit on the Bogen 3221WN legs??

Thanks,

New user and first post

MadMikey

[birddog114]

Can someone tell me if the Markin M10 head will fit on the Bogen 3221WN legs??

Thanks,

New user and first post

MadMikey

The Bogen3221WN is the video leg, sorry I have no ideas of fitting the Markins 10 on it.