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In a day and age where every man and his dog has a camera of some form and has some means of posting images on the web, from facebook to flickr to blogs its no wonder getting good critique is something many learning photographers really strive to receive. So, I thought it would be interesting to see what the local cross section at DSLRUsers thought about critique and how it fits in with your photography. Consider it a open discussion on just that, however consider these few points..

Do you learn alot from critique received on web forums, facebook, flickr and the like? Have you noticed a marked improvement of your photography based on this feedback? or is it merely the fact that you are travelling down your path and shooting more, hence you gotta go forward?

Did you have someone in your photography realm that provided really good feedback and made you look further into your images?

Do you receive negative feedback on your images? would receiving such critique help you more in improving rather than typical critique found on forums, ie 'great shot' etc. Note negative feedback is more than simply ' sorry does not work for me' etc.

What prevents you from providing critique? do you only critique images in the realm of photography that you know?

This ones an interesting one - does being invloved with a particular community where you are known cloud the critique you get, what I mean is, if someone knows you and what your photography is like does this have a detrimental or positive effect on the critique you receive from them? or is it more positive critique may be provided by a unknown party?

righto, the assigment is due tomorrow nite so get cracking

biggerry wrote:Do you learn alot from critique received on web forums, facebook, flickr and the like? Have you noticed a marked improvement of your photography based on this feedback? or is it merely the fact that you are travelling down your path and shooting more, hence you gotta go forward?

I think yes - possibly more because of the second (the old 10,000 concept) but whilst "I like what I like" if you know what I mean I still think having both good and bad feedback is helping to both hone my eye and hopefully see what others do and don't like about my images and which ones they like or don't.

Did you have someone in your photography realm that provided really good feedback and made you look further into your images?

Yes - you (and others from these forums)

Do you receive negative feedback on your images? would receiving such critique help you more in improving rather than typical critique found on forums, ie 'great shot' etc. Note negative feedback is more than simply ' sorry does not work for me' etc.

Probably only from this and the other forum. Most other places just say "nice image", etc for things they like and perhaps silence means the other

What prevents you from providing critique? do you only critique images in the realm of photography that you know?

I think getting to know the image maker a little better helps bring the comfort level up a bit to a point where you both feel like you're trying to give helpful and not harmful advice. I think it also requires confidence in your own abilities and that takes time. So for the later I feel like I personally have stronger technical skills and less natural creative/compositional ability so probably feel more confortable commenting on technical rather than creative aspects of an image or suggestions to improve (or at least my opinion on such).

This ones an interesting one - does being invloved with a particular community where you are known cloud the critique you get, what I mean is, if someone knows you and what your photography is like does this have a detrimental or positive effect on the critique you receive from them? or is it more positive critique may be provided by a unknown party?

As above - I think positive effect - as I get more comfortable with the people I think I'd feel more comfortable in saying what I really think (without it being perceived as smoke up the ass or nasty stuff - i.e. feel comfortable they'd take it the right way). I guess complete strangers could do the same but if it is going to be honest and frank from an anonymous stranger how do they stay anonymous for ever - unlikely on a smaller close knit forum but perhaps possible with say facebook, google+, etc?

righto, the assigment is due tomorrow nite so get cracking

Yes Sir!!!

Oh Gerry where to begin.......
I appreciate feedback be it positive or negative so long as it is constructive. That is that there is more to it than its good or its not. I really appreciate it when someone will take the time to pass an eye or two over a work and give an honest assessment of it.
I feel that you are happier to give negative feedback to people you know as they will understand that it is critique and not a put down in any way. I have noticed this in myself and it appears to be the same for others. So positive effect for knowing each other.
Sad maybe to say but this is the only place that I seek active critique for what I feel a need for help on. I usually get the answers to questions asked and it has been helpful to me many times. People here are always happy to help you out even if it does seem to be a simple question. I seek it where I think I need it but am happy to receive it on any image as it all adds up to a better understanding.
I have received feedback on other sites but it is more based upon the subject than the actual image or process involved in capturing said image.

It will be interesting to here from everyone else.

biggerry wrote:Do you learn alot from critique received on web forums, facebook, flickr and the like? Have you noticed a marked improvement of your photography based on this feedback? or is it merely the fact that you are travelling down your path and shooting more, hence you gotta go forward?

Sometimes for web forums, never for Facebook (one-word response is usually the max). On this forum I've sometimes got useful feedback when I think 've got something quite worked out. This may improve particular images but usually not so much influence on my photography as such.

biggerry wrote:Did you have someone in your photography realm that provided really good feedback and made you look further into your images?

I've been entering in Canberra Photographic Society competitions for thirty years (though with a break of twelve in the middle) and we get judges who are either commercial photographers, salaried photographers or artists. Definitely, yes. This is where the influence on my photography comes in, for the most part.

biggerry wrote:Do you receive negative feedback on your images? would receiving such critique help you more in improving rather than typical critique found on forums, ie 'great shot' etc. Note negative feedback is more than simply ' sorry does not work for me' etc.

For A Grade in the CPS, Judges are encouraged to speak their mind, so definitely yes and yes. The value of this is that you quickly realise that what one judge says will differ totally from another so the most important opinion is always your own. Also occasionally get useful negative feedback on web fora.

biggerry wrote:What prevents you from providing critique?

Cats jumping up and down on my keyboard and gnawing at my ears to drive me from the room. Nuclear explosions in a nearby country. Being chained up in front of a radio and forced to listen to Alan Jones. (Though, actually, none of these have happened recently).

Random disinclination. I occasionally have other things to do with my time. It helps if I am impressed by the image or the intent or the effort that went into it or the attitude. Less inclined to comment if I think the image is just boring and no effort went into it though the author wants their ego stroked.

biggerry wrote:do you only critique images in the realm of photography that you know?

I think this is the wrong question. Outside your normal interests might be better. I know something of how to do studio photography but have no interest in it but will comment from time to time. I know virtually nothing of the technique of gum bichromate printing so I'm not likely to make comments on the technique but I may well comment on such a print.

In terms of what I take the kwuestion to mean, no, I'm not restricted to that.

biggerry wrote:This ones an interesting one - does being invloved with a particular community where you are known cloud the critique you get, what I mean is, if someone knows you and what your photography is like does this have a detrimental or positive effect on the critique you receive from them? or is it more positive critique may be provided by a unknown party?

No, I don't think so. I think the better the quality of the critiquer, the less they are inclined to be influenced by that.

biggerry wrote:Do you learn alot from critique received on web forums, facebook, flickr and the like? Have you noticed a marked improvement of your photography based on this feedback? or is it merely the fact that you are travelling down your path and shooting more, hence you gotta go forward?

I have learned a great deal from well thought out critique I have received on some web forums. I appreciate it very much and use the suggestions provided. I believe my photography has improved significantly because of the comments I have received. I think the biggest area improvement for me has been the use of soft boxes with flash.

Unfortunately, I have not received a lot of detailed critique from DSLRUsers and this is why I no longer seek it here.

biggerry wrote:Did you have someone in your photography realm that provided really good feedback and made you look further into your images?

No. Not really. I have a couple of forums where I can go to get really good feedback. I acknowledge that feedback is a two way street so of late I have not sought feedback from those forums because I haven't had the time to provide feedback myself.

biggerry wrote:Do you receive negative feedback on your images? would receiving such critique help you more in improving rather than typical critique found on forums, ie 'great shot' etc. Note negative feedback is more than simply ' sorry does not work for me' etc.

I appreciate the negative feed back more than the positive. While it is useful to get confirmation that I have done something right, receiving detailed information on what doesn't work and why is of more value. Maybe if all my shots were perfect it would be different, but I know they could do with some improving but it isn't always obvious what needs to be done to improve the shot.

biggerry wrote:What prevents you from providing critique? do you only critique images in the realm of photography that you know?

Time, mostly. Although, I do only provide critique in the areas with which I'm familiar. For example, while I might be able to say that I like or don't like a portrait, I'm not sure I understand enough to be able to say why or provide anything to help someone improve the shot.

biggerry wrote:This ones an interesting one - does being invloved with a particular community where you are known cloud the critique you get, what I mean is, if someone knows you and what your photography is like does this have a detrimental or positive effect on the critique you receive from them? or is it more positive critique may be provided by a unknown party?

It depends. In general, knowing someone makes it easier to provide negative feedback, or at least advice on how to improve an image. Knowing someone might mean knowing they don't take negative feedback well, but that is probably the exception.

biggerry wrote:Do you learn alot from critique received on web forums, facebook, flickr and the like? Have you noticed a marked improvement of your photography based on this feedback? or is it merely the fact that you are travelling down your path and shooting more, hence you gotta go forward?

Both reallly. But here rather than FLickr. THere I get just "Nice" or else no comment. It doesn't help a real lot.
While feedback doesn't happen a real lot here either, when it does it tends to be really useful

biggerry wrote:Did you have someone in your photography realm that provided really good feedback and made you look further into your images?

Absolutely. Chris (sirhcc) has has made some comments here that have really stung my pride. But once I got over that, I was able to look at those photos again and make major improvements.

biggerry wrote:Do you receive negative feedback on your images? would receiving such critique help you more in improving rather than typical critique found on forums, ie 'great shot' etc. Note negative feedback is more than simply ' sorry does not work for me' etc.

Negative feedback is perhaps the wrong term. Constructive would be better. As a long term happy snapper, comments like "I really like the way you included that clothesline in the picture. It really brings out the Australian flavour" Don't really help. I just think "Huh? What clothesline???" On the other hand, "THis photo is too pretty for the subject matter. High contrast black and white will suit the subject much better" Really help me to re-evaluate my work, and point me in a possible direction to improve it.

biggerry wrote:What prevents you from providing critique? do you only critique images in the realm of photography that you know?

Frankly, I lack the confidence to critique others work. Further I do not know enough to evaluate photos on a level much above "I know what I like and I do/don't like this". Oddly having my critiques critiqued both positively here helps enormously. "What Greg said" gives me the confidence to try again. Usually though I tend to keep my commentary on the technical aspects ( or the flippant) as I feel more confident here.

biggerry wrote:This ones an interesting one - does being involved with a particular community where you are known cloud the critique you get, what I mean is, if someone knows you and what your photography is like does this have a detrimental or positive effect on the critique you receive from them? or is it more positive critique may be provided by a unknown party?

I don't know. I think both are important. Someone who knows me, my work and my motivations will give me critique with that in mind. But the inknown will give a more impartial view, and perhaps call into question my entire line of progression. That may be a good thing or it may not

biggerry wrote:righto, the assigment is due tomorrow nite so get cracking

WHere are you handing in your assignment - So we can dob you in for plagiarism

Mr Darcy wrote:WHere are you handing in your assignment - So we can dob you in for plagiarism

Its for my completion of a BA in BS at the school of Fine Arse (i mean Arts..)

Dude, we must be taking the same course as I've been doing a BS course as well. Perhaps I'll bump into you at class?

I reckon giving and receiving (which is a alot of science and a bit of an art) helps one to look at their photography in a more objective manner so that they can 'improve' or evolve. I have definitely found it helpful and often would modify my images based on this (even though I may not re-post them).

Giving critique helps you try and analyse WHY you like an image so you can apply those principles in your own image making. If you didn't know why you liked it, how could you replicate or learn from it?

I only post photos on here. I prefer constructive feedback but, ubfortunately it is of limited use when I lack the time to implement them.

There are a handful of members on here of whose opinion I respect a little more due to experience and skill. That is not to belittle the contributions of all members.

I give feedback based on the impression I have of a photo. I just don't do it often anymore.

biggerry wrote:Do you learn alot from critique received on web forums, facebook, flickr and the like? Have you noticed a marked improvement of your photography based on this feedback? or is it merely the fact that you are travelling down your path and shooting more, hence you gotta go forward?

I only really get feedback that is useful from this forum. I feel that I have plateau'd but at the same time I am finding less time to shoot and post. However I still feel that I have learnt a lot from the contributions of all the members here.

Did you have someone in your photography realm that provided really good feedback and made you look further into your images?

Everyone here who has taken the time to provide feedback for me. Hardly ever has feedback been useless.

Do you receive negative feedback on your images? would receiving such critique help you more in improving rather than typical critique found on forums, ie 'great shot' etc. Note negative feedback is more than simply ' sorry does not work for me' etc.

Not often enough, I do get the 'does not work' style response, but not often enough is negative feedback given.

What prevents you from providing critique? do you only critique images in the realm of photography that you know?

I will often look at an image and either feel that everything I have to say has been said, or I cannot think of a way to articulate what I feel whilst still making the feedback useful.

This ones an interesting one - does being invloved with a particular community where you are known cloud the critique you get, what I mean is, if someone knows you and what your photography is like does this have a detrimental or positive effect on the critique you receive from them? or is it more positive critique may be provided by a unknown party?

I think I feel more comfortable critiquing people that I know, and being able to provide the critique in a way that I know will not offend but still get my points across.

I think this question is the crux of photography.

No-one can improve in any endeavour without constructive feedback. Would Cadel Evans never have received a negative comment about his riding? I don't think so!

Sometimes when you bust your gut making an image only to have some idiot say "I would have taken five steps to the left" (when you were on the edge of a cliff!), you can become rather defensive.

If you feel safe in a forum, and if you know that comments are meant to be helpful rather than vindictive, then proper criticism will be the best way to improve your photography.

I think that the photographer has to be confident in his image - the reason he has made it; the message he is putting forward; the exposure and composition too. On the other hand, photographers who know it all already and dismiss any gentle criticism do not do themselves any favours in the long run.

Photography is like cooking. Sometimes the most obvious fault escapes the creator and needs to be pointed out by the audience.

One thing I've occasionally found annoying on fora is where someone posts a problem and one or more or even a lot of people go to a lot of trouble to provide detailed replies yet the original poster doesn't bother to post anything further on the thread.

the foto fanatic wrote:Sometimes when you bust your gut making an image only to have some idiot say "I would have taken five steps to the left" (when you were on the edge of a cliff!), you can become rather defensive.

You need to realise that the person is not an idiot, merely ignorant. She probably doesn't know you were unable to take five, or even one pace to the left. Relieve them of their ignorance. If they still come back with "You should have jumped out and taken the photo while you fell" then you are justified in calling them an idiot. Not before. Anyone critiquing the photo is doing just that. Is is valid to say the viewpoint is not quite right no matter how they express it. It is then up to you to say "Damn I wish I had realised that at the time" or "I did the best that was possible under the circumstances."

But yes. I get defensive too. It can be up to a week before I can look at some critiques objectively.

Mr Darcy wrote:You need to realise that the person is not an idiot, merely ignorant.

Quite right.

The idiot is the one who assumes that the viewer is aware of all the factors involved in making the image, when, clearly, that can never be the case.

Murray Foote wrote:original poster doesn't bother to post anything further on the thread

I think this is fair. It's easier to give critique and expect nothing in return. Remember, that you are also gaining from thinking about that photo.

There is a line that must be drawn somewhere though. It's almost like meeting someone then asking a question and turning around and leaving. Quite rude.

Murray Foote wrote:One thing I've occasionally found annoying on fora is where someone posts a problem and one or more or even a lot of people go to a lot of trouble to provide detailed replies yet the original poster doesn't bother to post anything further on the thread.

I must say that I have never thought about this, but it is a valid point.

I have been guilty of this, but with good reasons. Firstly, we have all seen those threads on some forums where every comment gets a return thank you from the OP, and one suspects that it is just to keep the thread at the top of the page.

Then there can be the comments that the OP doesn't agree with, leading to over-vigorous defence of the image. Or the photographer who slavishly follows every suggestion with a reworked image, so that in the end it looks nothing like the original. Makes you wonder why it was taken in the first place.

So I think that there are often reasons other than rudeness involved.

the foto fanatic wrote:I have been guilty of this, but with good reasons. Firstly, we have all seen those threads on some forums where every comment gets a return thank you from the OP, and one suspects that it is just to keep the thread at the top of the page.

Naturescapes.net get around that potential problem by ordering the threads (in critique forums) based on their started date rather than last updated date.

the foto fanatic wrote:Then there can be the comments that the OP doesn't agree with, leading to over-vigorous defence of the image.

Thick skin required.

the foto fanatic wrote:Or the photographer who slavishly follows every suggestion with a reworked image, so that in the end it looks nothing like the original.

This is quite a useful exercise though. I think the readers can learn more from watching the picture evolve. I think it's positive when someone is taking on the critique and showing us the results. This doesn't mean that they will print the resultant image on canvas.

the foto fanatic wrote:I have been guilty of this, but with good reasons.

Which is why I don't necessarily care whether they post back or not. I still think it's polite to do so according to normal social protocol (not necessarily internet protocol). I have been guilty as well because I posted too much and couldn't keep track of them all!

the foto fanatic wrote:So I think that there are often reasons other than rudeness involved.

Great see some really good discussion on this topic, i applaude and thank those who have taken the time to share their thoughts here.

I thinks only fair that I also put down my thoughts too.

Do you learn alot from critique received on web forums, facebook, flickr and the like? Have you noticed a marked improvement of your photography based on this feedback? or is it merely the fact that you are travelling down your path and shooting more, hence you gotta go forward?

For me I feel I do learn alot from critiques, however I have found I have learnt much much more from looking other peoples images and critiquing them. One thing I have learnt recently is that there is so so much more to critique than technical aspects/composition/processing etc, I have learnt more about looking at the image from a art point of view and looking/seeing what is trying to be conveyed by the person behind the image, i have learnt that to provide good critique is possibly harder than actually taking photographs...

Did you have someone in your photography realm that provided really good feedback and made you look further into your images?

yep and they have no idea about aperture, shutter speed or even what manual mode means.

Do you receive negative feedback on your images? would receiving such critique help you more in improving rather than typical critique found on forums, ie 'great shot' etc. Note negative feedback is more than simply ' sorry does not work for me' etc.

sometimes but not here. Negative feedback would (and does) certainly make my photography better.

What prevents you from providing critique? do you only critique images in the realm of photography that you know?

The only thing that prevents me from giving critique is time and my perception on the person posting the image. I critique anything and everything where I feel I have somethign valuable to provide (i am sure its not always perceived that way..) I guess one other aspect is whether the person is actually looking for critique...and whether its worth me spending my time on them.

Whilst I agree with the concept of 3 critiques per image posted over the years I find that alot of people give lip service to be able to post images - a better option would be to say give one decent, heart felt, thoughtful and helpful critique for every image.

This ones an interesting one - does being invloved with a particular community where you are known cloud the critique you get, what I mean is, if someone knows you and what your photography is like does this have a detrimental or positive effect on the critique you receive from them? or is it more positive critique may be provided by a unknown party?

this can work for or against you imo. Realistically if you are not thick skinned enough to take a few negative comments from a stranger than I think you have some reflection to do. I do agree that knowing someone can help in critiquing them however it can also blind your critique at the same time.

Mr Darcy wrote:Oddly having my critiques critiqued both positively here helps enormously. "What Greg said" gives me the confidence to try again. Usually though I tend to keep my commentary on the technical aspects ( or the flippant) as I feel more confident here.

having your critique critiqued, now there's an idea

ATJ wrote:Unfortunately, I have not received a lot of detailed critique from DSLRUsers and this is why I no longer seek it here.

yeah thats a shame and i am sure many others feel the same way and hence why people seek other mediums to present their work for critique. I think the whole quantity over quality aspect has had an impact on critique quality across forums.

It would be great if DSLRusers was/is known for its quality critiquing, however I think those days were either never here or are gone.

ATJ wrote:

the foto fanatic wrote:I have been guilty of this, but with good reasons. Firstly, we have all seen those threads on some forums where every comment gets a return thank you from the OP, and one suspects that it is just to keep the thread at the top of the page.

Naturescapes.net get around that potential problem by ordering the threads (in critique forums) based on their started date rather than last updated date.

yeah i agree with this its always painful to see OP's reply to every post 2 minutes after it occurs, I think giving your image/thread time to breath and soak in without plummeting it with 3 word replies has more merit.

surenj wrote:Giving critique helps you try and analyse WHY you like an image so you can apply those principles in your own image making. If you didn't know why you liked it, how could you replicate or learn from it?

agreed.

the foto fanatic wrote:I think this question is the crux of photography.
.

no, i think critique maybe be the crux of photography, however I am more looking for how critique fits into YOUR your Photography, this is different since critique means alot of different things for different people.

Murray Foote wrote:One thing I've occasionally found annoying on fora is where someone posts a problem and one or more or even a lot of people go to a lot of trouble to provide detailed replies yet the original poster doesn't bother to post anything further on the thread.

yep, thats mighty annoying and possibly why some people get view few comments here and on other forums. It also merely leads to people thinking 'why bother helping'.

surenj wrote:I still think it's polite to do so according to normal social protocol

quoted slightly out of context but this should be applied to alot of aspects of forums.

It would be great to see more people who frequent this forum to participate in discussion like this.

Lotsa lookers but not many people willing to share? c'mon it ain't hard - going to the dentist is worse.

biggerry wrote:Lotsa lookers but not many people willing to share?

"VIEWS" counts every single view by anyone not unique views. Someone going in and then posting a reply will generate 2 views. So you have caused 6-8 views in your posts alone. You going in and checking the latest updates will generate another view. I don't know how many times you have done that, but they will add up. Others who have posted checking updates will generate more views. So, while there may be some people reading and not posting, the number is going to be a lot less than appears from the "VIEWS" count.

biggerry wrote:Do you learn alot from critique received on web forums, facebook, flickr and the like?

I have on this forum. This place is really good for constructive C&C.
I don't use Flickr. Scott Kelby says "Flickr is where you go if you want your ego stroked."

biggerry wrote:Have you noticed a marked improvement of your photography based on this feedback?

I believe so. You guys would be the best judge of that.

biggerry wrote:Did you have someone in your photography realm that provided really good feedback and made you look further into your images?

Here is the only place I post images for C&C.

biggerry wrote:Do you receive negative feedback on your images? would receiving such critique help you more in improving rather than typical critique found on forums, ie 'great shot' etc. Note negative feedback is more than simply ' sorry does not work for me' etc.

I've never been given a huge list of problems to address, but the pointers which have been given by members are appreciated. All of the regulars here have far more experience than me so I value their opinion and suggestions.

biggerry wrote:What prevents you from providing critique? do you only critique images in the realm of photography that you know?

I'll point out something that is obvious to me. My level of experience is low, so I do consider that. I don't only critique images in the realm I know, but I feel more comfortable doing so and feel I have more to offer.

Wink wrote:I believe so. You guys would be the best judge of that.

thanks for taking the time to post Adam - i can say from my perspective I think you have improved in teh time that I have known you on this forum.

Thanks Gerry. I've learnt a lot from not only C&C given to me but reading the C&C for other people and just from people's experiences in general.

Wink wrote:I believe so. You guys would be the best judge of that.

You have illustrated another important part of critique; Self evaluation. I think this is a critical factor which will help you improve.

Nice to see you around again!