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Hi all,

I just got back from shooting around 150 photo's using my new 80-400 VR lens, and I'm rather disappointed at the results.

Most came out a trifle unfocused, although, It's obviously not the lens because about half a dozen came out sharp as a tack.

Some shots were taken in Portrait mode, some in sports mode, and some in Program mode, and all were taken after 9am outside in normal lighting conditions.

None of the shots were taken with a tripod.. I understand you need to turn VR off when using a tripod.

Is there a trick to using VR, or did I just have an exceptionally bad shooting day?

Incidently, out of all the shots I took at birddog's on Saturday, most were sharp, but a couple I took of people, turned out a little unfocused too.

Thanks
Geoff

gleff... might be worth posting an example with specs so those with the lens can comment more usefully.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/80400vr.htm

This may have useful information for you underneath the VR performance section.

Mj wrote:gleff... might be worth posting an example with specs so those with the lens can comment more usefully.

Here's an example..

http://www.gleff.com/image1.jpg

Focal Length 86mm
F-Number F/4.8
Exposure Time 1/200th sec.
Metering Mode Pattern
Mode: Portrait mode

Geoff

I think the focus plane looks sharp, on the water behind the bird.

My guess it's your setting in portrait mode, I think IMO that Apperture priority would have been better suite.

Hmmm.. I just opened the NEF image in Capture, and ticked the show focus area menu item, and nothing is coming up.

Geoff

Catcha wrote:My guess it's your setting in portrait mode, I think IMO that Apperture priority would have been better suite.

I've shot portrait mode of the same subjects using my old 70-300G lens and gotten nice sharp pics though.

I've checked out the focus point on a couple of other shots, and they came up, and showed the correct focus point. Maybe I just have extremely steady hands and the VR had a negative effect

I'll have to experiment more.

Geoff

Thinking this is user, not lens error here Gleff...
With f/4.8 @ 86mm you've caught this fellas back wing as the focalpoint and lost much of his head etc... I'd suggest dispensing with portrait and similar program options and work with A,S,M only. As this guys was probably not scooting along too fast, aperture mode at say f/8 might have done the trick.
Happy to check others just in case though...

Mj.

Mj wrote:Thinking this is user, not lens error here Gleff...
With f/4.8 @ 86mm you've caught this fellas back wing as the focalpoint and lost much of his head etc... I'd suggest dispensing with portrait and similar program options and work with A,S,M only. As this guys was probably not scooting along too fast, aperture mode at say f/8 might have done the trick.
Happy to check others just in case though...

Mj.

That's cool.. I think it's user error as well.. The fact that some (not many) shots came out sharp as a tack would tell me it's not the lens.

I'll do some more experimentation later in the week.

Geoff

gleff wrote:I've checked out the focus point on a couple of other shots, and they came up, and showed the correct focus point. Maybe I just have extremely steady hands and the VR had a negative effect

Geoff

Geoff... post up an example where you know the focus point is correct yet the focus is out... There are other possibilities... like you might have locked focus on your subject and it might have moved forward before you captured the shot.

Hi

the blurr is not the result of camera shake or VR problem. it is acutally your focus point. You should focus on the bird's eye and then recompose.

DOF is not enough at f4.8. Use at least f5.6 or f8 for such big bird.

Use aperture preferred mode for more control.

regards,

Arthur

I've just gone through some more shots from Saturday's minimeet, and the few I did in Aperture priority actually turned out pretty sharp.

I'm inclined to believe it was just an exceptionally bad choice of modes on the day. I'll have to get some practice I think

Thanks to all for their input.

Geoff

Hi,

I tend to agree with Heath.
When I look closely at the photo I believe that there is a shallow band of focus just behind the pelikan; starting right behind the pelikan.

Lucky man, I'd like to own that lens ...

Regards,

CD

Yep, I tend to agree

Also Gleff remember VR won't gaurantee a sharp shot everytime (well it will if you're 100% perfect) however it will increase the percentages of keepers.

Example. 70-300G say you get 40%-50% keepers with your technique, with a VR lens you're more than likely to get 80% keepers.

I've taken some shocking blurred images with my lens even at 1/400th

That's what I thought.. must have just had a bad day... The more I think about it.. most of the blurry shots were of moving objects, so it was more than likely user error in my settings.

Thanks for all your opinions.

Geoff

I agree with Kipper, using VR does not guarantee perfect shots but does lessen what you discard , out of my V8's panning shots i only kept about 128 out of roughly 500 shots, and they were either too blurred or not captured in the frame properly.

gleff wrote:I'm inclined to believe it was just an exceptionally bad choice of modes on the day.

Geoff,

Yep! The best thing you can do is to forget that those modes even exist. Seriously.

Take control - A mode, Continuous Focus, stop down to between 6.3 and 11 ... VR on, (obviously), set the focus limiter so that it's in either the near or far range depending upon where your subject matter is ...

Pay attention to which focus point the camera is using; make sure it's the one that YOU want.

Then let's see if you're getting some solid images.

gleff,
Do you need a VR workshop?

Birddog114 wrote:gleff,
Do you need a VR workshop?

Hehe.. I'm still waiting for the neck strap workshop

Geoff

Jeff most of the others have answered your question so you know by now that it is not the lens. I also have the 80-400VR and whilst it is not in the same league as the 70-200VR it is still an excellent lens.

With the advice already given I am sure that by now you will have worked this out.

Hi all,

what hand held technique are you using with your VR lens ?
1. Palm of your left hand under the lens and right hand securing the D70 body ?
2. Are you resting the VR lens on the bend of your left hand elbow while your left hand is securing your right elbow and upper right hand arm ?
I'm quite curious if the second technique gets close to resembling a tripod and therefore VR should be turned off.
I will test this for myself.
In the mean time I'd like to get your opinions.
Also what is the general consent on using a monopod with VR ?

Regards,

CD

Hi Geoff,

All I can say is that I agree with what been told above.

Here are some bird shots - Singapore, Jurong Bird Park. All done with 80-400VR, some with flash, some whithout. ISO 800 because it was dark cloudy day. And I kept most of the shots - got rid of very few.

ChristianD, I sometimes use the 2nd technique.

I'll have to do some comparison shots.

Hlop wrote:Hi Geoff,

All I can say is that I agree with what been told above.

Here are some bird shots - Singapore, Jurong Bird Park. All done with 80-400VR, some with flash, some whithout. ISO 800 because it was dark cloudy day. And I kept most of the shots - got rid of very few.

Damn.. those are some nice shots there Hlop.. I realised all along that it was user error, and not the lens.. I was getting a few really good sharp shots, so that ruled the lens out. I'll just have to practice a bit

Thanks
Geoff

Appreciating your humility Gleff.

With my 70-200 VR I saw some truth in Rockwells article. In that particular lens there is an unusual sweet-spot around 1/8 - 1/12.

According to him (Ken Rockwell), the lowest shutter speeds at particular focal lengths are as follows: (for sharp images)

80mm 1/15
150mm 1/30
200mm 1/15
300mm 1/60
400mm 1/250

Hi Geoff...

As you may have seen, I took several photos of the Kittyhawk aircraft carrier today with the 80-400VR...

I took about 40 shots with the 80-400VR and none of them were blurred or fuzzy... http://www.d70users.com/viewtopic.php?p=82806#82806

gleff wrote:

Hlop wrote:Hi Geoff,

All I can say is that I agree with what been told above.

Here are some bird shots - Singapore, Jurong Bird Park. All done with 80-400VR, some with flash, some whithout. ISO 800 because it was dark cloudy day. And I kept most of the shots - got rid of very few.

Damn.. those are some nice shots there Hlop.. I realised all along that it was user error, and not the lens.. I was getting a few really good sharp shots, so that ruled the lens out. I'll just have to practice a bit

Thanks
Geoff

Geoff,
Firstly: a workshop is required
Secondly: join the tribe for shooting outdoor and practice of panning etc..
Thirdly: Put aside some $$$ for the 70-200VR

leek wrote:Hi Geoff...

As you may have seen, I took several photos of the Kittyhawk aircraft carrier today with the 80-400VR...

I took about 40 shots with the 80-400VR and none of them were blurred or fuzzy... http://www.d70users.com/viewtopic.php?p=82806#82806

But John - was the Kittyhawk moving at 75km an hour

I just stood at my balcony and put the camera in Manual mode and pointed it at the Telstra exchange 50 metres down the street, and the shot came out great.. shame the subject is boring as crap though.

I'm RDO'd tomorrow, so i'm heading into the CBD to have a walk around the botanical gardens, snap a few of the Kitty Hawk, so we'll see how I go. I'm going to do it all in Manual mode as well.

Geoff

Geoff

While I have the 70-200 VR not the 80-400 VR I've also played with the 80-400 and have to say I found it fine in non manual mode - generally Aperture Priority, so don't assume you need manual mode to get good shots. Have a play. One thing I did notice with the 80-400VR is it was slow to focus so maybe you need to take a little extra time before pressing the shutter release.

stubbsy wrote:One thing I did notice with the 80-400VR is it was slow to focus so maybe you need to take a little extra time before pressing the shutter release.

Actually, you have to find good contrast area and then you don't have a problem with AF. Also, distance limit switch helps a lot if you missed contrast spot and lens starts hunting for focus

Hi Geoff,

There are a number of things you can do with the 80-400 to get sharp shots. There's a learning curve involved with this lens, much more so than any of the other VR lenses, because of the focal lengths involved and the screw drive AF.

You have to wait for the VR to kick in or you'll goof shots. My habit is to half press the shutter release to keep VR active all the time, when I am anticipating a shot. I bump the shutter when using AF-S, to keep focus near the subject or I keep the half pressed shutter and use AF-C and move the focus point around on the subject to ensure focus is set properly.

The best shots that I've had with this lens, came from using it on a monopod, with high shutter speeds, like 1/500, with VR on.

The temptation to shoot at low shutter speeds with this lens, only leads to frustration, especially for new users. You still need to have good hand holding technique, to maximize the VR and sharpness. Your technique at 400mm is much more important, even with VR, than it is at 100mm.

My advice is to bump your ISO up to keep your shutter speeds close to or above 1/FL. Work on your hand held technique and find your limits with regard to shutter speed/focal length. Use a monopod when you want really sharp shots.

IME, you can't hold the camera steady enough, even with a monopod, to have the VR goof the focus.

Once you get the hang of it, you'll be getting some very sharp shots. This lens has excellent sharpness, IMO.

G'day,
I use the 80-400 mainly for animals chilling and early on I found myself definately pushing the boundaries with shutter speeds. The VR helps with shake but I think I was being tricked by small amounts of subject movement during the longer shutter times. You can get really sharp images with the lens, it's just not as fast as the ones we all drool over

I use a monopod which helps, and tend to bump up the ISO on anything other than a bright day or area, definately keep VR active while you wait for "the shot" as it takes a tick to kick-in and settle. Only time I've used it on a tripod was a shot of the moon when I turned VR off.

I still get the blurry ones but they're now a much smaller percentage than without, VR definately helps me and I'd be buggered without it.

Have a play with the focus limit, it seems to help focus quicker and it's handy if your subject is not going to go from the far limit to the close limit quickly and catch you out.

Cheers.

I went to the city yesterday and had a second go at using the 80-400 and this time, had great success.

Here's a couple of shots I took from Lady Macquarie's chair.. Probably from around the same spot as Leek. I can't get over how sharp they are. I'm truly impressed. I did Aperture priority as recommended by most of you.






The original versions were sharper.. I lost a little quality by making tiny Jpg's

Geoff

Pretty nice Geoff, impressive stuff! What aperture were you using? EXIF data seems to have been stripped out?

gleff,
Now you've found the key! but beware of Secret Sercice is behind you

MCWB wrote:Pretty nice Geoff, impressive stuff! What aperture were you using? EXIF data seems to have been stripped out?

Both were F/6.3 at 1/400s

I probably should have used PS to cut down the image size.. the software I used tends to strip the exif data.

Oh well.. next time.

Geoff

G'day,

Looks like you've got the hang of the new toy now Took me a few goes too, but i usually use A pri and mostly around the F8 mark. I use the 80-400 for animal stuff mainly but with a smaller ap' I sometimes up the ISO to keep an animal still.

gleff wrote:Both were F/6.3 at 1/400s

Thanks Geoff. 1/3 stop from wide open, I'm impressed with the results!

from 1 geoff to another practice practice and more practice. it will shit you up the wall at first but you will nail it and by some stange occurence called mastering these lenses and their characteristics you will feel a sense of calm and lack of frustration. IT WILL HAPPEN!