I may be joining you in sunny Oz (permanently) ? advice plea

[Charlie Chalk]

Hi all

This one may be best answered by the ex-pats amongst you, but anyone with an opinion please chip in.

(oh, and its O/T, but I thought it may get overlooked in the Location section of the forum, admins please move it if you'd prefer)

I have just applied for a Managerial role within our company that is based in Sydney. It’ll mean (if I get it) me and the family selling up and moving over there ‘lock stock’.

I’d love some thoughts from you guys on the whole ‘leaving blighty’ thing – did/does Oz still do it for you, do you regret it, do you miss anything, is it more/less expensive to live in Australia than the UK, has your standard of life improved?

I’m really keen (if only to finally get to one of the D70 meets! !) and my wife is excited by the whole idea (kids don't know yet), and with stories in the news here of 14 year old kids beating a guy to death (two different instances in one weekend) I can honestly say I don’t relish the thought of my two kids growing up in the UK.

So if anyone can give me a steer on the whole subject of moving to, and living in Australia please speak up!

(Having said all this I probably won’t even get an interview, but my mum always said I was the best, so I’m sure they’ll think so too!)

Thanks!

CC

[Marvin]

Well, good luck Charlie!
I have never lived in England but when we visited a couple of years ago I found it to be very expensive (ie it seems a lot cheaper to live here). But to us country interstate folk, Sydney housing is extremely expensive, although perhaps comparible to English prices. Good weather too!
I know plenty of people who have moved and never looked back.

[Glen]

Charlie, I am an Aussie but the best reason is when I checked on Yahoo weather just now. We are in winter at the moment, it has been raining for a week now (very unusual, we are in the middle of a water shortage) it is a cold horrible day today, but our temps are 66-53 degress F today. London, in summer, is getting 74-59 today. Winter doesnt last very long here, and we will be back in the summer temps. You choose if you want your kids to have a suntan or not?


There are social dramas here as well, but at least the weather is nice

[Charlie Chalk]

Thanks guys

The weather is a big + point for my wife, she'd have our central heating on full blast now (and its as hot as its gonna get here) never mind in the winter!

I guess the issues I mentioned are just as likely to happen anywhere in the world, but I do get the impression that Australia isn't as bad as the UK for this sort of thing (please feel free to tell me I'm wrong)

CC

[radar]

Hi CC,

This one may be best answered by the ex-pats amongst you, but anyone with an opinion please chip in.

<snip>

So if anyone can give me a steer on the whole subject of moving to, and living in Australia please speak up!

Having moved here from Canada, I must give a resounding vote for YES. We initially came here for 5 years, that's 15 years ago

Australia has always been very friendly and welcoming. The fact that you will have a job when you come here, moved by your company, etc would make it that much easier for you. Moving to Australia doesn't take you away from street violence and crime, it happens in all large cities around the world, but Australia is still pretty mellow compared to a lot of other places around the world.

Granted I didn't have kids to move, but even if you are here for a few years and decide to go back, it will still be a great experience for the whole family.

Not sure about Sydney , Newcastle up the coast is nicer , but then there are those mini-meets in Sydney

Good luck,

Radar.

[Charlie Chalk]

Newcastle would be handy, it'd be one less thing to change as we live next to the city of Newcastle here in the UK!

Anyway, its almost midnight here, but if anyone has anymore info/advice/comments etc please let me know, if I do get the offer of the job the more idea of what we could be moving to the better.

I'm off to bed, good night!

CC

[birddog114]

CC,
Having moved from the USA to here since early 80 and never regret!
Go back home (US) twice a year in the past but do not have any chance this year yet.
Looking forward to hear from you, good luck and I personally will welcome you to the Sydney tribe.

Glen,
Sydney weather Is GregB was in Sydney last week or this week?

[Glen]

You are right Birddy, we should bring GregB up for a month to solve the water shortage

[leek]

Having just come down off my roof after draining all the puddles that are forming in the tarpaulin (house undergoing renovations...) I really wish the sunny bit was true at the moment...

I've been here for 10 years and have absolutely no regrets...
Cost of living is much cheaper
Lifestyle is much better
What do I miss??? Nothing much except my parents who still live in Wales...

[rokkstar]

Charlie,

My fiance and me moved here 6 months ago and I for one love it.
The weather is (usually) fantastic, the atmosphere is chilled out. People are friendly, they actually ask how they can be more helpful in shops!!! Can you imagine that in the UK??
It's great for the outdoors, we have some friends with kids and its superb for them.

You can plan weekends because you know it will be sunny. The beaches are wonderful. The surfing is cool. Kids seem to have a fantastic life.
The chicks are hot!!

The sports here are great - it seems that the Australian teams are actually good at things they do!

They don't do very good sausages though, but they do fantastic prawns and fish and fruit. Bring Branston pickle and Marmite.

The only thing I have a concern about is that it isn't like Europe. You can't fly easyjet to Germany, or Amsterdam and be in another country in a little over an hour. You can't get on the seacat from Dover to do some french booze cruise.
It's a country the size of America - with a population the size of greater London!!

I hope you get it Charlie.

Matt

[leek]

Sorry - forgot to mention something very important...

If you do get the gig here, make sure that you get some Australian tax advice before agreeing on your package and on what type of visa you will apply for...

The best way to do it is to come in on a sponsored temporary residence visa for 4 years and make sure that you therefore qualify for the Living Away From Home (LAFH) tax concessions. This scheme allows you to deduct things like your rent from your gross salary and also provides additional deductions to cover cost of living differences and the cost of one set of flights back to Europe per year...

Anything you can deduct from your gross salary in this way is very worthwhile as the tax here is a bit higher than in the UK...

Anyway... let us know if things are looking positive and we can give you other snippets of info like how to ship your stuff out here and how to camp in your apartment while you wait for it to arrive...

[Greg B]

Birdy & Glen

I was in Sydney 7/6-10/6, must have taken the Melbourne weather with me because it was sunny and mild every day

I am doing my bit for the water shortage in Melbourne by having some work done in the back yard, starting now. If that doesn't bring on the rain, I don't know what will.

Things have turned colder in Melb over the past couple of weeks after a very long post summer period.

Charlie, Australia is a great place in many ways, but like any move, it depends on how you cope with change. From what I have seen, those with a positive outlook absolutely thrive. Hope you make the move

cheers

[Paul]

Hi Charlie,
I moved here with my Australian fiance 3 years ago from Scotland and never looked back!
As everyone has mentioned above the lifestyle is relaxed, loads of sport, plenty of outdoor drinking establishments, amazing scenery if you can muster the challenge of leaving Sydney for a few days.
I was back in the UK last December, can't really say I was homesick in fact I was looking forward to coming back to Sydney!
My only gripe is the house prices but from what I've seen and heard back home there's not much difference.
Go for it, you won't regret it plus you get to come to a mini-meet!
Good luck with the job interview.

[Glen]

Birdy & Glen


I am doing my bit for the water shortage in Melbourne by having some work done in the back yard, starting now. If that doesn't bring on the rain, I don't know what will.


cheers

Greg, prepare for a flood! Just got a water tank delivered, on a very sunny day, and since then it has rained every day before I could get it installed. Outdoor work attracts rain like nothing else

[Nnnnsic]

Geeze Glen... you should've proposed that to the state government. We'd have had rain ages ago...

[birddog114]

Glen,
When we have had more than enough water in the dam catchment, will it turn into the compact and transportable swimming pool?

[Glen]

Glen,
When we have had more than enough water in the dam catchment, will it turn into the compact and transportable swimming pool?

[Oneputt]

CC I have been here for 38 years. Never ever wanted to go back and still feel like I am on holidays. It is the greatest place on earth...I love it.

[sirhc55]

CC - came here in 1973 and have loved every moment since landing. The food is better, the weather is better, the prices are better, the wages are better, houses and units are better - I could go on for hours - just come you will love it

[Onyx]

Hey Charlie, it's exciting the prospect of moving isnt it?!

I would just add, you'll feel right at home in Aust. I haven't been to England, but know enough people who have to know that you can get virtually everything here that you desire from 'the motherland' should you feel homesick.

Also, your kids will probably be teased alot at their new school - for being new, having pasty white skin and an accent. Depending on their age and fragility of mind, just something to be aware of as a parent I guess.

[Glen]

Chi, by the fact you don't have pasty white skin, were you the one doing the teasing at school?

[Nnnnsic]

Hmm... yeah, I have to say that from going to schools in both the US and Australia, Australia has some of the most cruel kids and teens in their school system.

Me thinks their parents need to do a better job.

[huynhie]

When I originally saw your post I thought you were moving from Newcatle 2 hours away not Newcastle England.

What can I suggest - Look right before you cross the road

but you should already know that.

[leek]

Sorry... forgot something... there is something I miss very badly - British Country Pubs (or any pubs in fact)... There's nothing quite like them here and they are very special...

There's no shortage of good beer, but the bars don't quite have that relaxed atmosphere...

[Nnnnsic]

I haven't tried it yet but upon finding a new route to walk from Paddington to work, I found what is calling itself a British tavern and... you know what? It doesn't look too bad.

[gstark]

I haven't tried it yet but upon finding a new route to walk from Paddington to work, I found what is calling itself a British tavern and... you know what? It doesn't look too bad.

I'd suggest calling in after work, rather than beforehand.

[Nnnnsic]

You wouldn't if you worked here.

[Paul]

I haven't tried it yet but upon finding a new route to walk from Paddington to work, I found what is calling itself a British tavern and... you know what? It doesn't look too bad.

Would this be the Lord Dudley by any chance?

[kipper]

It's just not quite the same. It's funny I've been to a lot of so called English Pubs here, and they're just not the real thing. They don't have the age/history of the UK Pubs.

While I was in the UK at Christmas, I went to a pub that I'd never been to before with my nan, cousins, uncles and aunties. Looking at the photos on the wall, I came across a photo of my Grandfather and his brothers in a football team (soccer). Plus the age of the pubs in the UK date back many years, you just don't get that here (imho).

Charlie Chalk, I'm an expat living here in Australia for the past 20 years. I love Australia, and I do think it has a lot to offer. People are great, the variety in cultures, the cuisine (it's cheap to eat out), the lifestyle, it's all pretty good here. Prices of houses here are cheaper, depending on where you live. Sydney (NSW) can be a bit more pricier than other states. Shopping at the supermarkets I think is pretty much on par with the UK, booze at the pubs and at the bottle shop is pretty much the same. I was buying 5pound bottles of wines which were good. I also bought a few NZ whites there which priced were only slightly dearer in the UK which you have to expect with shipping. Not sure what the cost of council rates, water rates etc are in the UK. I know when my parents stayed over there recently they said that some of the utility services were much cheaper than Australia. They had gas heating on for the whole of winter and it was hardly anything the cost of it, over it's a different story. Weather wise, Sydney and Brisbane is a fair bit warmer than Melbourne. In some ways the South of UK (where I come from) is a lot like Melbourne weather. So I can't really say that the weather in Australia is better than the UK.

Another thing that you should consider is family. Will you miss your brothers, sisters, cousins etc when you get over here. I know our family does. My family here in Australia is made up of my Dad, Mum and myself. My sister left Australia, and while in France studying languages met a French man and got married and now has a family there. So now we're in a position where we either stay here and have to return every year or so. Or go back to live for good. So really speak things through with your children (not sure how old they are) and make sure they really want to go aswell. You wouldn't want one of your kids, once old enough, to come back to the UK and live. As it will tear you, or your wife apart not seeing them all the time. Especially if they end up having grandkids.

Something you should note is that to go back to the UK is a lot more expensive then coming over here. Trips back to the UK for the flight alone costs $2500-3000 (inc. taxes any connecting flights to country locations) return which is about 1000pounds. Compared to flights that you can get from the UK to Australia return which are about 600pounds (when I checked in the UK) also compared with a recent trip that my Aunty had here. Conversion rates of the dollar to pounds also isn't so crash hot (1pound = 2.5dollars) so it always seems expensive going back to the UK for holidays etc.

Another thing to consider is that Australia will in the next 6 months go under radical Industrial Work changes, as the govt here has just gained full control of the House of Rep or the Senate (can't remember which) so laws can be passed that weren't passible before. So one thing our govt wants to do is overhaul the Industrial Laws. Not sure how this affects your job, or your wifes, it might not. However it might affect your children if they decide to go into an Industry that is affected by this. Again it's another thing to consider.

Anyway that's my rant on it. Hope I haven't put you off too much.
Oh we have great places to take photos of landscapes, birds, architecture etc.

[nigels]

Hello Charlie,

Best of luck with the interview, think positive mate, we will be looking forward to your post telling us you were successful.

I moved here in 1956 and have been back to the Old Dart a couple of times. Would love to work back there for a year or two, might be able to next year.

But Aussie, is the best place in the world, in fact is at least 10 times better than second place. Housing in Sydney is comparable to cities in the UK, but country properties substantially cheaper. Cost of living is much cheaper here, although cars are more expensive, but petrol is cheaper.

The state government here sucks, but don't they all.

But all in all, you will find Aussie a fantastic place to live, both for you and your family. As I've mentioned, the best place in the world, IMHO.

I think English pubs are absolutely fantastic, far more friendly and a far better atmosphere than here, but then again the beers great, plus you certainly don't decide your country of residence on the quality its pubs.(although perhaps some on this forum may disagree)

When you get here (thinking positive) and settle in, contact me and we will arrange a great couple of days at Jenolan Caves, about 3 hours out of Sydney.

Regards and best wishes
Nige

[kipper]

Btw, crime is pretty bad in both countries. Remember UK has 55-60million (iirc) in a country that's a little bigger than the state of Victoria. We have 20million in a country that's much bigger. FYI, here are some of the crimes we've had in Australia.

* Victoria - 27 gangland killings in 6 years
* Victoria - Jealous husband kills his wife and 20month old daughter with speargun then cuts them up with chainsaw
* Victoria - Youth 15-17 stabbed a man and left him to die when he found them robbing his home

That's only the most crimes that come to mind that I know about that have happened recently in the state that I live in.

[leek]

Another thing to consider is that Australia will in the next 6 months go under radical Industrial Work changes, as the govt here has just gained full control of the House of Rep or the Senate (can't remember which) so laws can be passed that weren't passible before. So one thing our govt wants to do is overhaul the Industrial Laws. Not sure how this affects your job, or your wifes, it might not. However it might affect your children if they decide to go into an Industry that is affected by this. Again it's another thing to consider.

Sorry kipper, but I think that's a very big red herring... The Industrial Relations changes proposed would merely bring Australia into line with what Maggie Thatcher achieved in the '70s in the UK... (which is about when all the union fanatics emigrated to Australia and started causing trouble over here)... Don't believe everything the ACTU says... Oops... Sorry... Politics... too late now though - I've said it...

[kipper]

Btw, having said all of that. If you can make it work here, it's absolutely brilliant. Weather is great, scenery can be very tranquil at times. Nicole and Arthur will vouch for me on how tranquil Werribee Treatment Plant was on Sunday night. I couldn't believe it, it was amazing the colors of the sunset and the color of the water and how still it was, was absolutely amazing. If you can make the move work, you'll love it. Otherwise it can be quite a costly exercise.

[Glen]

CC, just do it, you wont regret it.



ps it must be good here, your fellow countryman is raving about the sewerage treatment plant, imagine what the rest of the place is like

[kipper]

Leek, it certainly might be a Red Herring. Who knows, time will tell.
Perhaps you're in a job that might not be affected Leek. I am, so I have a reason to rant and rave about it.

All I know is that I don't want to go from being on a $28ph job back down to $20ph. Not for what I do. I'd rather go back to the UK then do that. The other day I heard some Apprentices talking on the bus, they sounded like Fitters of some kind as they were involved in turning and lathing of metals etc. Their wages were $6.50ph, like who the hell can live on $6.50ph? That's like 2.70pound an hour! You can get sod all for that I can tell you.

[Glen]

Kipper, the other way to look at collective bargaining is that the employer is forced to pay the best person at the rate of the laziest as all must be paid the same. The boss might think you are great and give you $38 per hour as you are worth it after the change ($48 p/hr if he sees your bird photos )

[chris1968]

CC - evidently early days yet but i hope things go well, getting posted over there is certainly easier than having to apply...

as for the moving over - if i had to work off my brief 3 weeks downunder a couple of years ago i'd say yup - just do it - just be aware its hard to find an all day brekkie, let alone HP Sauce.......

[kipper]

Chris, we do Sunday Brekky here UK style.

Bacon, Eggs, Sausages, Toast, Baked Beans......no Black Pudding (thank god)

Oh, and we have HP Sauce in abbundance


Ps, if you want a decent Sausage here you have to go to delis. Supermarket bought Sausages suck. We managed to find a Chicken shop that does Chippolatas which are very good. Also you might want to stop buy a Polish butcher that works with Pork. You'll always get a good Kransky off of them, pork sausages are the best. Also you'll find the Aussies don't know how to make a decent Pastie

[hangdog]

The Industrial Relations changes proposed would merely bring Australia into line with what Maggie Thatcher achieved in the '70s in the UK... (which is about when all the union fanatics emigrated to Australia and started causing trouble over here)... Don't believe everything the ACTU says...

But didn't Thatcher's union-breaking years in the '80s occur around the same time as the Hawke Government's Wages Accord? BTW, my parents brought the family to Melbourne from KL in 1976. The cost to their careers was high, but I'm thankful as all heck that they made the move.

--Chuan

[kipper]

Btw, my father has worked pre-thatcher and post thatcher and worked here during for 20 years. He's also worked back in the UK recently under the Blair govt. Something he said that is even though we work under unions, we work quite hard in comparison.

[johndec]

CC - evidently early days yet but i hope things go well, getting posted over there is certainly easier than having to apply...

as for the moving over - if i had to work off my brief 3 weeks downunder a couple of years ago i'd say yup - just do it - just be aware its hard to find an all day brekkie, let alone HP Sauce.......

Pfft... You can buy HP sauce at nearly any supermarket here. Got some in my cupboard right now. As far as nostalgic foods from home, there is a shop in the Sydney CBD that sells Marmite by the gallon They also stock a wide range of sweets, breakfast cereals, drinks, etc that the inhabitants of that little island north of France are partial to  BTW: Who needs all day breakfasts when you can eat steak for lunch here for less than they charge for sausages over there

[birddog114]

I have and eat HP sauce with steak too!

[chris1968]

so, your little continent is awash with HP sauce then? Bugger! - thought i'd spotted an opportunity to start up a little import export business - seen as so many members appear to be ex-pats i figured Birdy could have added the brown stuff to his core range

what to we get from you apart from The Thopredo , thrashings at cricket ,
oh yeah, now i remember - Heartland Directors Cut Shiraz - 2002 - amazing..............

[sirhc55]

Plus Twiglets and a little sweet shop in Leura that sells all of the old favourites such as Humbugs. Harrods christmas puddings, Heinz salad cream and, HP sauce which is on special at Woolies right now

[big pix]

someone has a serious sweet tooth..........and I know that shop as I also suffer from a serious sweet tooth........

cheers
bp

[leek]

Plus Twiglets

Twiglets??? Where??? I wanna know... OK there was something else I missed...

[sirhc55]

Twiglets - David Jones food hall sometimes have them in - or you can do a Mr Bean and dip twigs in marmite

[hangdog]

Plus Twiglets and a little sweet shop in Leura that sells all of the old favourites<snip>

Ooh, I've been to that shop, back when I was living in Sydney. It's amazing, every kind of tooth-destroying temptation imaginable, every childhood memory revived. What I bought from there didn't last long!

Sigh, if only I'd been into photography then, I would have a record of that visit and a bundle of photos from the nearby gardens. I suppose I could find an excuse to go again.

--Chuan

[Geoff]

I have and eat HP sauce with steak too!

I thought you could only scan and print with HP stuff? U can add it to food too? *boom tish*.

[smac]

I came to Australia from Scotland with my parents for the grand sum of 10 quid......best investment my parents ever made.

We have interns working for us from Europe and the hardest job is convincing them to go home at the end of their internship.....

You won't regret it.

Cheers

Stuart