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I have spent the best part of a week now trying to capture 'the decisive moment'.
I have had drunks come up to me and threaten to steal my camera unless I gave them a dollar, mothers look at me suspiciously and promptly grab their kids and run off, couples look at me with utter disdain, people relaxing in the sun with looks of anger and confusion on their faces. Etc.

My point is that nearly every attempt to capture something decisive has resulted in failure because the subjects saw the camera and reacted to it. People don't like strangers with big black cameras taking pictures of them for no good reason. How did Bresson get away with it? I understand that he actually had to pay some of his models but for the most part he didn't.

Has anyone else come across this? Has anyone had a winning 'moment' in their viewfinder only to be scuppered by the subject/object/whatever seeeing that they are being photographed and reacting?
Also, are people getting funny looks whilst trying to get the shot? I feel guilty for taking pictures of children etc, and start feeling like a pervert, so I make a concious decision to even put the camera in the bag when they are around.

Crickey this is tough BUT, bloody enjoyable once you get a few that actually work.

I'll keep trying though

Matt, similar here. Like you I don't do kids, because if someone drags me before a magistrate I would prefer it to be for a girl than a child Try a longer lens, the 300 + 1.7Tc worked well for me last week

Rokkstar, I think if you're on your own with a camera it's harder.

When we went out at the D70meet in melbourne we all had cameras and started shooting children playing in a water feature at the Crown Casino. No funny looks were given.

rokkstar wrote:My point is that nearly every attempt to capture something decisive has resulted in failure because the subjects saw the camera and reacted to it. People don't like strangers with big black cameras taking pictures of them for no good reason. How did Bresson get away with it?

Matt,

Have you had a chance to compare the size of the classic Leica rangefinder camera with that of a D70?

I suspect that may have something to do with it.

Now you know one reason why I'd like an RD-1.

MAtt

you shoud talk to member 'embi' she did photojournalism
Try approaching them, introduce yourself and tell them why you are taking a their photo, now with this process you will loose the 'decisive moment'

Otherwise if your really confident you can be audacious and just shoot in peoples faces, it realy depends on how you feel about doing that and getting away with it, if you do it in the public domain there is nothing they can legally do to stop you.

photography ia a multiskilled discipline, personality, common sense, technical skill and creativity are needed to take a decisive momment

'Bresson' lived in simpler times, no media that skewed peoples perception about having their photograph taken

in Europe and most 3rd world countries alot of people love getting their shot taken as they feel special. In developed western nations most people have a different attitude.

I try to take candid shots of people with little success, that is why i shoot abstract stuff and Architecture.

I do hope you don't go in quest of juvenile decisive moments dressed like your avatar!!

Funny isn't it - no, not that quip .... what I'm about to say - yes, it's funny how camera manufacturers and their design teams lost their way there for a while. With the advent of the D70, D50 and (heaven forbid, I've said it again) 350D the move seems to be back to the heartland of what 35mm was initially all about and very, very good at. In a word:

STEALTH

Unobtrusive, quiet, innocent bystander kind of watching the world and its story unfold.

Bresson and others of his genre (Kertesz, Brassaï, Doisneau, Boubat, Koudelka .... the list goes on) used a small inconspicuous camera with a small inconspicuous lens - often all taped up black and (you guessed it) inconspicuous - working swiftly at close range and at preset focus distances.

A D70s with either a 24mm 1:2.8 or a 35mm 1:2 attached would be a close match to the 35mm and 50mm lenses of the classic street photographer (they seldom if ever worked with longer lenses but if you are timid you could try a 50mm 1:1.8 ). The camera is smaller than the F4/F5 EOS 1N type of thing with a hand grip and oce you are familiar with it, you should be able to conceal it, pre-set the focus and then position yourself where you think you'll need to be. Then SHOOT!!

Modern SLRs and DSLRs are a mass of crutches upon which operators come to rely far too heavily. Forget focus points and spot metering points and viewfinder info read-outs - the guys you are trying to emulate flew by the seat of their pants ..... and so can you!!

Unlike those past masters you can rely on matrix metering to get you by - or you can do as they did and just set a shutter speed and aperture appropriate to the scene and the desired mood. Chances are that if you let the camera always have its head and decide exposure without you thinking about it then you won't be aware of just how constant the various levels of illumination are in given circumstances.

Above and beyond all that, these guys were a part of their camera and it was a part of them - they knew it inside out and back to front. So should you know yours. Spending Friday night in front of the telly with the footy and a coldie? Then cradle your camera and set and re-set it's features without looking; just like your gran knits you a sweater. Practice, practice and practice more so that when you encounter the world you can function and grab that elusive shot without diverting your gaze and catching the attention of your victim .... sorry, subject.

At the end of the day the technology of the camera you cherish so is a servant not a master - come out from under its command and learn to take control ..... and to trust your decisions.

Cheers,

Sheetshooter

As with many of your posts - incisive, informative and interesting. Thank you for some much needed motivation (which beats getting frustrated with the problems outlined here by Matt and of which I, too, am victim)

Sheetshooter

another enthralling read, i hope you live a very very long time so we can
benefit form your witful and utterly hilarious discourses!

Hmm, I understand now...it's not the camera that's alerting people to my presence it's the jockstrap

Great comments from all. I'm actually really enjoying this challenge because it's making me work a bit.

wendellt wrote:...you should talk to member 'embi' she did photojournalism...

Geez I missed my sex change!

another enthralling read, i hope you live a very very long time so we can benefit form your witful and utterly hilarious discourses!

As with many of your posts - incisive, informative and interesting

I second those two quotes and add I'm impatient to see your entry in the forum competition!

Link.

I've always shot from far away.

Today I was carrying it around shooting a lot andI think that wearing my "FREAK" hat really stopped people from caring.

So... wear a hat that says "FREAK" boldly on it.

It's strange how the public perceives cameras these days... it's almost like you're carrying a firearm.

Sheetshooter's post is spot on the mark. And perhaps the difficulties inherent in obtaining this 'decisive moment' was the purpose behind choosing the theme for the comp.

Onyx wrote:It's strange how the public perceives cameras these days... it's almost like you're carrying a firearm.

Sheetshooter's post is spot on the mark. And perhaps the difficulties inherent in obtaining this 'decisive moment' was the purpose behind choosing the theme for the comp.

Exactly. Big black camera = dangerous person!

I'm really looking forward to seeing everyones interpretation of the theme.

I had some great tutors when I studied photojournalism many years ago.

The best thing I learnt? ALWAYS be ready.

I tend to set my camera on A mode. Let the camera pic a shutter speed for me.

Maybe use a prime lens. With a prime lens you dont think do I need to zoom. You get to know how close you need to be.

Set a focal length.

Watch for repetition in peoples actions.

Just press the button.

I would steer clear of kids. Its a touchy subject.

Maybe try older people first. Engage them in conversation. What's thier story. Wait for the moment.

e.g. An older couple walking in the park.

"Nice weather we are having"..........."Can you tell me where to find the water fountain?".........I'm a photographer"...."I am trying some different photography"...... "I like to take photos of people mostly though" .... "Could I take a picture of you?" .......... "So where did you meet each other?"

Listen to thier story...Take a real interest. You are trying to capture all of that into your single image.

Wait for that glint, the smile as they remember the day they met....You have already go permission to take thier pic. Dont hesitate. The smiles say it all.....CLICK....

Dont be scared to take a shot. If someone reacts just talk to them. Offer to email them a copy. Be friendly.

I am in the process of obtaining a 35mm F2 lens and the reason??? Simplicity.

1. It's a prime lens. No zoom. Also means I have to get into the action.
2. It's a fast lens and it means quicker shots when needed.
3. It's small and not in peoples faces.

Try some of my ideas....see how you go.

Excellent comments there embi.
I've given all of this a go so fingers crossed now. It really has sparked off a love affair with street photography and for ever trying to capture that decisive moment.

Its really the only photography I am any good at.

I try as hard as I can to capture "the story" in one image.

Try to get as much info as needed in that one shot.

embi wrote:Its really the only photography I am any good at.

So are you feeling confident?

Its been a long time since I did some serious PJ...

.... I should go out tomorrow and try to get a shot for the competition

Like most forms of photography, doco is a subject that can be approached in many different ways, a few of which have been mentioned here already by other members of the forum...

I enjoy shooting doco however I am also aware that talking to the subject can affect the overall image (the Heisenberg theory suggests that the closer you try and measure something the more inaccurate the final measurement will be... doco is a little the same!). For this reason I tend to shoot using a few different techniques including the Random approach which relies on presetting the camera (exposure, focus etc) and then pointing the camera in random directions and pushing the shutter button. If you use you senses well you will discover it works.

To be really good at doing the decisive moment you need to anticipate and then be prepared to wait without drawing a lot of attention to yourself. One of my personal favourite images was made when I saw some good lighting at the bar of a local sports club and after getting permission from the barman I spent the next ten minutes leaning motionless against a beer fridge with the camera glued to my face. People soon forgot I was there and thats when I started getting good images. Ignore everyone, even if they are a metre away from you.

I typically work with wide angle lenses (I think telephotos are for voyeurs). The advantage of wideangles is that they reveal more of the environment the subject is in while at the same time letting you work with slower shutter speeds. One of my favourite cameras is a Konica Hexar, a near silent 35mm film camera with a fixed 35mm f2 lens... it is smaller than a Leica and yet the results are very serious. This being said, a lot of my doco work is shot using a Nikon F100 with a 20-35mm lens. It is not neccessarily what camera you use, it is how you use it and what attitude you command with it. Be prepared to look past people and keep walking if you feel the need. If you do think you are going to be photographing children identify the parents first and explain your case to them.... every time! No parents, no photos.

If you want to start shooting good decisive moment scenes start shooting the crowds at a sports events... its a good starting point.

Hope this is a help!

Antsl, thank you for that it was a great read.
Can I be so ignorant as to ask what doco is?

I think this challenge has got the entire forum thinking. There are some serious discussions and approaches coming out of this. I love the fact that the entire forum, however many hundreds of people, are all thinking and shooting the same type of thing, with multiple approaches, leading to completely different outcomes. It's really exciting.

The Sony V1 I first used was a good little camera though slow to start up it could be carried in a pocket and used at will (so long as he was agreeable) I was thinking about buying a V3 for the same reason but it is a bit bigger.

Can I be so ignorant as to ask what doco is?

Doco, as in documentary photography.

Link.

Doco or Documentary photography is the process of recording the world about us, be it the people, the places or the issues. It is like photojournalism or reportage photography in that it typically records people doing things, unlike reportage though, most doco photographers look for the magic in the ordinary. Doco assignments are typically your National Geographic type images while photojournalism will typically be on the front page of the newspaper tomorrow morning. Good documentary photography should not really be set up while reportage images can more often than not be set-up (remembering that a news photographer will typically have to get the best image they can get in the shortest period of time (deadlines) and if that means setting up an image they will do it (short of fabricating what was never going to happen!).

If you have a look at this link you will get an idea of what I call doco!
<http://www.anthonymckee.com/Doco.html>

Antsl

http://www.anthonymckee.com/Doco.html

Bloody awesome stuff....

Hi, Just wondering if you wanted to look more professional perhaps wearing something with a Photography related logo, perhaps business or just one you make up so that people don't get too suspecious especially when kids are involved. May help when you're out on your own. Just a thought.

Being professional, IMHO, is more about attitudes than appearances.

You can wear whatever you like, but if you're continually getting in the way of yous subjects (say, at a MVA) or otherwise intrusive, then you'll be unlikely to be viewed as a pro by those around you, and more importantl, you'll be less likely to grab that image.

...true that. I guess what I was trying to address was the fact that some parents are a bit weary of a stranger coming up and taking pictures of their kids. In today's society and how things are on the Internet you can't blame them.
Gary, you're spot on about attitude and how you bring yourself across. I also like Embi's approach.
In saying all this, I'll be buggered if I can find a shot to enter into the comp. Good luck to those that do!
Some really creative photo's submitted so far.
Now, if only I can find a mother breast feeding a baby...