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Suspect shot dead at Stockwell tube station. He was being followed by plain cloths police and then challenged by police. more information at 1:30 local time......edit..he was being chased by police onto the tube station, police still looking for 3 more suspects......

News stations reported this here an hour or so ago.

Sounded odd to both Dad and myself.

I have only just turned the Sky Channel news on ......

with trains and buses being blown up and suspects being shot ...... I guess I will have lots of time to shoot bumble bees and maybe get a good pix.... as I am not going out.......

I realise that it's probably easier said than done, but don't let them stuff up your holiday bp... There are plenty of places to go in London that would be very safe...

Nnnnsic wrote:News stations reported this here an hour or so ago.

Sounded odd to both Dad and myself.

As British police are normally unarmed.

Reports this morning say that they called out to this person - carrying a backpack - to stop, and he failed to do so. It seems that he was shot 5 times!

And they've apparantly made one arrest within the same region ...

leek wrote:I realise that it's probably easier said than done, but don't let them stuff up your holiday bp... There are plenty of places to go in London that would be very safe...

I'm with you on this one. Give in to the terrorists, and they've won!

Gary,

You raise a pet topic of mine - Armed Police.

I believe that the UK system where the general Bobby is not armed with a firearm is most commendable - it was like that here until about 1954 I understand.

When firearms are called for there are specialists trained specifically for the task that are engaged who minimisre risk to others and cope admirably with the 'heat' of a situation.

Let's not ever have another Ronnie Levy incident as happened down on Bondi Beach.

Now, back to London.

Sheetshooter wrote:Let's not ever have another Ronnie Levy incident as happened down on Bondi Beach.

I think that, as good as many in our police service are, the most they should be armed with is a Nokia cellphone. Then, through the good graces of Hel$tra and int inoperability of Nokia, they should be made to communicate with the baddies using only their cellphones.

In a dire emergency, they could call on experts in the field - say someone like Warnie - to help them with their text messaging skills.

Eventually the baddies would all give up in utter frustration.


As you can tell, I've given this solution a great deal of thought.


More seriously, specially trained armed units would be a good solution, but there's always the problem of the speed by which such a solution could be deployed. As clearly demonstrated by the recent Redfern and MacQuarie Fields riots, the NSW police service is poorly trained and ill-equipped to handle these sorts of event.

gstark wrote:

Sheetshooter wrote:Let's not ever have another Ronnie Levy incident as happened down on Bondi Beach.

As clearly demonstrated by the recent Redfern and MacQuarie Fields riots, the NSW police service is poorly trained and ill-equipped to handle these sorts of event.

I would suggest that the NSW Police is one of the best trained police forces in the world, and best equiped. The problem doesn't lie in the officer on the street, but upper managements decision to utilise the skills, tactics and equipment that is available.

As for the Bondi Beach incident, it must be nice to be an arm chair expert.
The 'average' Police shooting lasts three seconds and occurs at three metres. Lets see a specialist unit get there quick enough.

Sorry if it seems i've bitten back (being a newbie and all) just don't like my colleagues getting second guessed by everyone, it wears a bit thin (like the fabric on a well worn arm chair).

Raskill wrote:

gstark wrote:

Sheetshooter wrote:Let's not ever have another Ronnie Levy incident as happened down on Bondi Beach.

As clearly demonstrated by the recent Redfern and MacQuarie Fields riots, the NSW police service is poorly trained and ill-equipped to handle these sorts of event.

I would suggest that the NSW Police is one of the best trained police forces in the world, and best equiped. The problem doesn't lie in the officer on the street, but upper managements decision to utilise the skills, tactics and equipment that is available.

As for the Bondi Beach incident, it must be nice to be an arm chair expert.
The 'average' Police shooting lasts three seconds and occurs at three metres. Lets see a specialist unit get there quick enough.

Which is pretty well the point I made when I said "but there's always the problem of the speed by which such a solution could be deployed"

Sorry if it seems i've bitten back (being a newbie and all) just don't like my colleagues getting second guessed by everyone, it wears a bit thin (like the fabric on a well worn arm chair).

Not at all; we welcome vigorous discussion, just as long as you stick to the topic, rather than attacking the person making the comment.

Please note the context of my statement - I did say that "the NSW police service is poorly trained and ill-equipped to handle these sorts of event"

I accept that our police service is very well trained, but the reports commissioned into those events clearly stated that the forces at the coalface were ill-equipped, untrained in terms of the conditions encountered, and incompetently managed. I don't have direct access to the facts that the enquiries had, but like any other member of the public, I have to accept those findings.

My recollection of the Levy incident though suggests that one, if not both, of the officers concerned had attended a drugs party (or something similar) only hours before the event? Is my recollection of that inaccurate?

I'm certainly not suggesting that that sort of behaviour is typical of members of the NSW Police, but simply stating my recollection of one particular event.

A photographer was shot at Heathrow Airport. "I thought he had a rocket launcher!", says rookie cop. "I didn't know he had a 200-400mm VR mounted on a Wimberly Sidekick!"

Keep your heads down guys. The suits are getting nervous.

When I left the old dart in ’73 the only police carrying guns were the flying squad - today there are literally hundreds of armed police in the UK and for a very good reason.

When confronted with a situation it is always better to follow the old adage: shoot first, ask questions later

After the last bombings the Police have been instructed to "Shoot to Kill", according to the news.

The "suspect" deserved to get shot anyway. He was being persued by Armed Ununiformed Police that instructed him to "halt" and "get to the ground". However he carried on running and jumped on a train. According to the news he had a bomb belt and was shot, most likely to prevent him from detonating it. He apparently was under surveillance for a few days.

kipper wrote:According to the news he had a bomb belt and was shot, most likely to prevent him from detonating it. He apparently was under surveillance for a few days.

He won't be the last!

With a bomb?

or

Shot?

or

Under Surveillance?

Either way, it's one down..........

Of course with a bomb!

and blow himself up instead of get shot!

Even under the English top security surveillance!

It's going to happen here. I predict the Commonwealth Games and the Opera House as being targets.

It's just a shame with the latter it didn't happen while Leyton Hewitt and Bec Cartwright were there.

kipper wrote:It's just a shame with the latter it didn't happen while Leyton Hewitt and Bec Cartwright were there.

That's not very funny kipper...

Home and Away lover!

I know it wasn't, was fairly poor taste but I mean please.....wedding at the Opera House. Who do they think they are.

They may not deserve to be rich and famous, but no-one deserves to be the target of a terrorist bomb... Yes... you're right - it was in bad taste...

Kipper, getting married at the Opera House is not that big a deal or expensive, a friend of mine got married there and had the reception at his parents home - because he was on a budget!


Sad thing about the suspect shot dead is we don't know what he is guilty of. They have released that he was not connected with the blasts, but no other info. All at the moment the public can be sure of is that he was guilty of not obeying a police instruction. I would hate to think he was an illegal immigrant or stole a video that morning or didn't speak english, and that is why he ran. If that is the case my heart goes out to the officer involved, who I believe made a reasonable choice under the very very tough circumstances. It would be sad to think that the terrorists have us killing each other.

Raskill, intersting topic about NSW police, discussed that with my wife that while Sydney would be a target, it probably has the best trained officers to deal with such a threat. The Ron Levy affair is somewhat different, and would not rank as a high point for NSW Police. Gary's recollection is accurate. I believe no killing, by a law enforcement officer or individual, can be above public scrutiny. No large group of diverse individuals can be sure there are no bad apples.

Glen wrote:The Ron Levy affair is somewhat different, and would not rank as a high point for NSW Police.

Given the alleged drug use, maybe it was!

Just read this in the SMH: "For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets."

Full story: http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Police ... 12126.html

Very very sad for all concerned.

Glen wrote:Just read this in the SMH: "For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets."

Full story: http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Police ... 12126.html

Very very sad for all concerned.

Well, that terrible sad for such of wasting a life!
It's also over-reacting with those coppers! More innocent life to go and will never end. If I'm one of their relatives, should I go after those killers?

Another note for our fellow photographers:

Lowepro and other photography bag maker will soon have their slogan embroidered on their products such as:

"I'm a photographer, not a terrorist! Please don't shoot me!"

Or:

" No bomb in this bag, they're my camera gears, Pls. don't shoot"

Like the logos Birddy, put me down for both

Glen wrote:Like the logos Birddy, put me down for both

Seriously thinking:

Avoiding some hassles may arise with some idiots and over-reacting mongoes during the AW for members who want to take part of the workshop in the "sensitive areas" or travelling by train.

We should have ID badge for each members who're going to take part at the AW of the workshop in Lavender Bay or Harbour Bridge or somewhere near.

We should have badges or name tags with the D70Users logo to be worn by all our fellow members who're going into a workshop in the city with backbag or bags.

We can tell them "F****K Off" we're photographers and we're enjoying our AW, our backbags are not with the bombs.

I've been told some bag search done in the Central Station and QVB yesterday by some idiots.

The do-gooders will complain about the London detectives killing a suspect who did not respond to the command to stop. But, what do they say about terrorists killing over 50 innocents

I think that if you are running away from armed police, whether you are a terrorist or a petty criminal stealing a video, considering that London has been attacked twice in 2 weeks, then you are asking for trouble and the police acted responsibly.

Apparently, London Police are in a shoot to kill mode. They're taking the attitude that if the target has a bomb, if they're not killed, they could still set it off.

gstark wrote:Apparently, London Police are in a shoot to kill mode. They're taking the attitude that if the target has a bomb, if they're not killed, they could still set it off.

In front of them or in their "no brain", everyone all has a bomb attached to the body

For some like me it is impossible to justify taking anybody's life on any pretext - especially where there is a chance of error as is so often the case.

It's all very eye-for-an-eye but all that can lead to is a world of people without eyes.

Sheetshooter wrote:It's all very eye-for-an-eye but all that can lead to is a world of people without eyes.

How can those people look into the viewfinder of the camera?
Oh yeah! I see! shooting blind!

Sheetshooter wrote:For some like me it is impossible to justify taking anybody's life on any pretext - especially where there is a chance of error as is so often the case.

It's all very eye-for-an-eye but all that can lead to is a world of people without eyes.

I certainly can't disagree, but I can also see the logic in what they're saying.

It's just so damn sad, IMHO.

If that guy had triggered a bomb in his backpack then we'd be sitting here saying why didn't they shoot him. In my opinion its a case of what ever they do someone will never be happy.

I think (my own opinion) they did the right thing. It is unfortunate that it turned out to be wrong but he chose to run away and paid the price for doing so in the current times in that particular country.

embi wrote:If that guy had triggered a bomb in his backpack then we'd be sitting here saying why didn't they shoot him. In my opinion its a case of what ever they do someone will never be happy.

I think (my own opinion) they did the right thing. It is unfortunate that it turned out to be wrong but he chose to run away and paid the price for doing so in the current times in that particular country.

perhaps he did not intent to run away, he may so scare and try to run cos everyone is chasing and running in the chaos, other, he may not known he was after by the "idiot" or he may has the problems of his hearing.

If this happens to me or I was in the wrong place, wrong time, I'll be running to seek a safety places and get shot also. Their first statement was: "a guy was running with full ladden of bomb strapped to his body" and later saying: "regret".

Have your backbag or your camera bag with a banner or a sign: "don't shoot me, I'm deaf".

I repeat:
"people in front of them are terrorist all, their bags are with full load of bomb"

The police have now admitted he was innocent. The Federal Police recently approached me because I had a 70-200 and backpack near John Howard's house. Luckily they were not in shoot to kill mode then, hope they still aren't for all on the Anniversery weekend.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/police ... 97926.html

Interestingly, bystanders said the police were dressed totally in black. Also for those who have been to Brazil might recall that their police service doesn't have the reputation of the British. Most would remember the cleanups of street kids when the World Enviromental Forum (?) was held there. Very sad, the terrorists do have us killing each other.

I can understand a uniformed officer having a right to shoot on target (not to kill, to subdue) but an un-uniformed officer seems ridiculous.

Now, any person can get a gun scream "Police officer! Stop!" and shoot on command.

And then run and get away with a senseless crime.

This is a terribly sad event, but lacking complete details I'd have to agree with Embi. The police are in a no win situation in cases like this. They have to make instant life threatening decisions and we sit in our armchairs and snipe at them (metaphorically) at our leisure after the event. If the guy was a bomber who managed to blow himself up because he wasn't shot we'd be criticising the police even more than is happening now because the shot an apparently innocent man. In times like these it's inevitable that innocent people will be hurt, the import thing is that the civilised do everything to minimise this and the police certainly fall into this category.

I feel for both the parents of the young man in Brazil and for the policeman in Britain who now has to deal with the aftermath.

I tell you this:

Now another parents, wife, brother, sisters, friends lost another loved ones!

Who should be getting the award in this case? the copper?

Nothing can bring this lost life or other casualties in the last couple weeks back!

War criminal as : GWB, JH, TB should plead their guilties of killing all those innocents people on both sides and around the world.

What should we do we them: chop them and feed to the tigers in the zoo!

Well, I think the cops were just doing as instructed.

Things just don't add up, he apparently was wearing a trenchcoat or something similar which was a bit odd for summer and he also jumped a barrier according to all the things I've read about it.

So with those details, I'd probably would of done the same thing if I was a cop. You have to remember they've been bombed twice now. We can't understand what it's like, as we're not there. They'd be very much on edge.

Birddog114 wrote:War criminal as : GWB, JH, TB should plead their guilties of killing all those innocents people on both sides and around the world.

I blame Richard the Lionheart myself...

The cops who shot him will be awarded a top medal from TB and goes to hell after.

The victims is on his way to the heaven

leek wrote:

Birddog114 wrote:War criminal as : GWB, JH, TB should plead their guilties of killing all those innocents people on both sides and around the world.

I blame Richard the Lionheart myself...

I think its sad that another innocent man had to die, but it is a little unclear as to what happened...

The Hearld Sun were quoting sources saying that he left a house that was under watch due to a connection with Thursdays bombings, was trailled, was wearing inappropriate clothing, and in the station began behaving strangely. He was told to stop several times, yet began running and boarded a train at which point he was shot.

It may take a few days for stories to allign and this one gets sorted out.

The police and the Menezes are both destined to bad outcomes in this situation. Placing myself in the victim's shoes, I'm not sure I would have reacted differently. Imagine if you noticed yourself being followed by a group of folks dressed in suspicious clothing, then all of a sudden one presents a firearm and make demands from you. What would you do? Human psychology suggests your natural defense mechanism would kick in - a 'fight or flight' response.

Birddog, may I borrow your Lowepro vest for the AW? Complimented with urban camo attire and black balaclava, with one of those "I'm not a terrorist" stickers. See you in the headlines folks...

Sorry Onyx but the police have to state out loudly when ordering someone to stop that they are police. There would have been too many witnesses for them to disobey what is a required order of procedure.

Although the police have deemed this person innocent it would appear that his actions were not and under the circumstances of what has happened in London in the past weeks, I for one do not condemn their actions.

If and when terrorism comes to Australia we may have the same circumstances happen here. . .

sirhc55 wrote:If and when terrorism comes to Australia we may have the same circumstances happen here. . .

"STOP! Westfield Security!"