Not Permitted: Professional Cameras

[daniel_r]

Hello all,

Today I received my "Day on the Green" tickets for Pete Murray's appearance at Poet's Coerner winery @ Mudgee in November.

The included info booklet reads:

Not Permitted: Strictly no BYO alcohol. No tables or umbrellas, professional cameras, video or recording equipment, glass, metal cutlery, tents or sunshelters.

All bags are subject to a safety and security search upon entry. Any prohibited items will be confiscated.

What exactly is a professional camera? (sure, I can think what I would call professional... D2x, D2h etc )

Is a D70 with a 70-200 VR less of a professional camera when it has a 70-300G fitted

I know that there's been a few topics in the past here with differing limitations imposed by the event managers (eg no larger than 200mm lens), but I can't recall a mention of "professional cameras". Maybe the event co-ord has realised they have virtually no hope stopping people with camera phones and so on.

In previous years I've taken along my Coolpix 4300 (hardly professional!) and haven't had any problems (apart from short battery life, slow zoom...)

The website makes no mention about cameras in the event FAQ.

Ideas? Experiences?
(perhaps removing the Nikon strap )

[Nnnnsic]

Call them up and ask them to clairfy what a professional camera is.

[birddog114]

dis-assemble the camera + lens and re-assemble after got thru the gate

Honestly!!!! I always hate those warning, and it'll go to the bin under my desk

They promote their winery and want you to buy their wine but they try to stop you doing photography, it's non sense to me. I'll go to a cellar get one good bottle of RED and drink it in my backyard with more freedom.

[glamy]

You really have to want to see Pete Murray! That maybe why a winery is an appropriate location (only if the wine is free! which I bet it is not).
Cheers,
Gerard

[DaveB]

I'd assume there's pressure from Pete Murray's management and their PR people to try to stop photographers other than those employed by themselves from recording his act. Unfortunately there's legal precedent in this (it's a "private" event and they're allowed to impose Ts&Cs on entry). Consider the "no audio recorders" clauses also.

If I was keen on taking a camera I would only take one, I would strip it down (remove the battery grip to make it look less imposing), not wear my photo vest, not take a tripod (although a monopod would still be tempting) and not take my biggest and scariest lenses.
As birddog says, taking it apart to get it in there could help. But also, once you're in do your best to not look "professional" (whatever that means). Because an argument with security staff will only spoil your day.

Of course this all assumes you're not intending to use the photos for anything other than editorial purposes!

[Doughnut]

Maybe Pete Murray and company should change the wording to "photography by guests allowed but not to be used for commerical purposes."

Cheers,
Edward

[PiroStitch]

That's just utter BS. How the hell do these "management" and PR staff expect singers and bands to ahve a wider fanbase if they keep putting restrictions on them when they go to watch their band/artist perform?

I went to watch Dave Matthews Band and the idiots at the Palace banned photography, audio devices, etc. Nothing wrong with that you say? Well considering that Dave Matthews encourages their fans to bring recorders, video cameras, still cameras of any sort, I'd have to say that's a rather large contradiction. I'm not inciting a boycott of DMB because I know it wasn't a rule they imposed for the Melb. Concert, but it was the event/venue policy.

[Matt. K]

Don't go. And let them know why.

[Killakoala]

As Matt says, but maybe go one further and tell Pete Murray why, whoever he is...

[DaveB]

If you have a problem with their policies then sure, complain to them. I'm not saying their position is the "right" one: rather questioning what it's worth to you to fight it.

Whatever you do, don't try to only complain to the staff on-duty on the day. They're usually not equipped to make decisions which you would regard as sensible, and like I said: arguing with security staff isn't going to make your day fun. BTW Gerard, I see your opinion of Pete's music is as high as mine.

[stephen]

I think a D70 would constitute a professional camera or look like one to security.This is sad news a s i am going to pete murray in Perth. I was at the Danny Green fight in Perth and i just put a red ribbon round my neck like the press did and held my d70 high and i just walk straight through the security guards into the VIP area and snapped away.I presume they will be searching bags for liquor and the like so it would be difficult to hide a D70 , Cheers Stephen

[MattC]

Who the heck is Pete Murray??? I have never heard of him, I would bet that is the same for many others, so a little more publicity would not go astray. I wonder if they plan on having their own "pros" attending and have to deal with those egos.

If they were smart about it, "no commercial photography" (as already mentioned) and perhaps give those photogs a means to use their work in a manner that meets with approval of the management.

The location would probably be an interesting subject.

Cheers

[birddog114]

Me too! who's Peter Murray? How good he's?
I only know one guy and he's Peter Stubb and he's my friend, he didn't stop me to bring the D2x into his BD party

How's about Peter Costello? he'll be the worst and bring to us the sh****t

[big pix]

no outdoor protection.......no sunshades .......no professional looking cqmeras......just don't go.......but the wine tasting could be good.........

[fozzie]

For those who do not know Pete Murray, please look here

[thaddeus]

My advice is to send them a photo of your camera gear and ask them to send back a statement that you can bring the camera or else give you a refund. Feel free in your request to say that you will not be taking photos for professional purposes. Their statement should include the name of the gate manager or similar. Bring their statement along and present it at the gate and hopefully you won't have any problems. If you do, then get them to phone the person who sent you the statement and all should be fine!

[marcotrov]

Just put a peel off sticker on your camera that says 'Not Professional'
marco

[jdear]

we need a bunch of screen printed shirts which say "I am not a professional photographer" on them.

problem solved.

JD

[Nnnnsic]

Pete Murray would probably be the Australian Jack Johnson if Jack Johnson were any good...
(See, I'm complimenting Pete Murray... but only a little... )

[jdear]

whose jack johnson?

:p

JD

[daniel_r]

Thanks for the responses guys.

I think I'll call up the event managers on Monday and get them to clarify what they are referring to as a professional camera. As suggested, I think they may actually be inferring "commercial" rather than "professional".

DaveB - you're absolutely right. You've gotta clarify these things before the day, and turning up and arguing with security does bugger all. If it looks like something they've been told to ban, they probably will.

The dissapointing part about this is that you could turn up with a F50 with the 70-300G all in 'Nikon silver' and get similar results by relying on skill rather than how the exterior of your equipment looks (I'm far from suggesting dumping the D70 for a F50! )

I thought about requesting a refund as the pre-sale info didn't make mention of this, but I'll endeavour to clear it up with them.

I can understand some of the other limitations - no BYO and sharp stuff - they have Responsible Service of Alcohol (RSA) obligations to meet and a duty of care to ensure public safety.

There's two sides to this - I could go and tell them to jump and take their commecialism elsewhere. On the other, I feel it's really important to get out and attend this sort of thing when promoters can be bothered to send anything out to country / rural areas. This sort of activity stimulates the economy of small towns such as Mudgee.

I'll post their response.

D.

[Hudo]

Interesting thread. Looking forward to see what the promoters have to say.

Mark

[Nnnnsic]

You could always stick the Nikon 45mm on the D70 and make it look like a 5400...

[Raskill]

what an absolute crock! I went to the Robbie Williams concert at the Sydney Footy Stadium (took the wife for a surprise, honestly... ), and they didn't give a stuff what you had. They didn't let you take bottles of water with lids cause then you could throw them, but there were HEAPS of people with cameras, big uns and small uns.

It's not like Pete Murray is in the same league, so where do they get off.

Mind you if I was going, I'd be more interested in finding a few nice bottles of cab sav and getting royally hammered. Theres some nice scenery around Mudgee, if your heading down the Castlereagh Highway back towards Sydney, stop at Pearsons Lookout, just south of the village of Capertee, a great view of the worlds second largest canyon. Very very impressive.

[tasadam]

An interesting read, looking forward to seeing whether the bureacrats here can be swayed by someone that happens to own a "nice" camera and likes photography for his or her own enjoyment / hobby. Events like this are fun to photograph, and a valuable learning exercise. I for one would be willing to sign a statement saying I will not be using any photographs taken at (certain event) for commercial purposes or financial gain. Or even better, promote yourself as a freelance photographer and willing to offer your photos to organiser / event manager at no cost but with recognition, but you're only at event for your own enjoyment really... though this option might be less likely to be accepted. No harm in asking, and this might allow you the "big scary" lenses (that comment made me laugh)

I agree there needs to be a clarification between professional and commercial. In reality, the organisers should allow photography so long as it is not used for commercial purposes.

Perhaps they have their own paid photographers there, and it is them that are putting restrictions on camera access to these things for fear of lost revenue or being out-performed by "some ameteur" from the crowd. I remember hearing some wedding photographers not liking people with cameras stealing their shots because "uncle joe" with his instamatic might just fluke taking the photo at the right time and catch that candid moment or winning smile that the paid photographer misses, and alas a lost sale when the album is put together.

Good luck, interesting to hear what they say.

[daniel_r]

Geoff's 70-200 Jamiroquai thread reminded me of my post from a couple of months back

I posted the reply from the promoter, but I think the turks stole it when we got hacked

Anyway -

I emailed the promoter

Hello,

I've just received my Day on the Green Poet's Corner tickets purchased
through TicketMaster7 online.

I'd like to clarify a clause on the info card included with the tickets.

"Not Permitted: Strictly no BYO. This is a fully licenced event. No Tables
or umbrellas, professional cameras, video or recording equipment, glass,
metal cutlery, tents and sunshelters".

Would you be able clarify further the term "professional cameras".
As part of the event I'd like to take along a camera to capture some
pictures of friends while enjoying the day out, not for commercial purposes.
The camera I own and use daily could be classed as a "professional grade"
digital SLR, and I am concerned that the security staff on the gate may see
it that way. I'm not a professional photographer, or attending the event in
any commercial role.

Prior to purchasing the tickets, this information was not available either
on the TicketMaster7 site, or dayonthegreen.com.au.

Could you please advise or clarify what is a "professional camera"

Reply from the event promoter in under 10 minutes:

Hi daniel,
Thanks for checking – you will be fine on the day.

The clause really serves to cover us when we have a major international act.

No worries.
Thanks

I'll print the email with full headers and take it with me
Worse case the 80-400 gets to stay in the boot of the car while I take the 50/1.4...

[MHD]

Thats a laid back response if ever I heard one!

[birddog114]

Thats a laid back response if ever I heard one!

MHD,
Not a laidback but they didn't know what to say, same as other thread from Geoff about the respond of the organizer verbally over the phone.

They know: you're their fans and they want your money, no sympathies, no good services, all crappy to me! Money and money are their answers.

[Geoff]

Dan that's a great resposne indeed. I have however decided not to risk it, I wouldn't enjoy the concert knowing my camera and 70-200VR are in a cloak room/tent unattended...scary thought. I will enjoy the concert anyway.

[Greg B]

Peter Murray and Tony Joe White, good gig.

[Hudo]

Hi,

Agree what a soft %#$)@ response to your well written E-mail. You deserved a better reply. I guess best not to risk having it taken from you and realx and enjoy the event.

Mark

[tasadam]

I am soon to find out how strict they are with the Supercars at Simmons Plains in Tassie. 13 November I think.

Hoping to, and looking forward to, getting some great shots, only limited by my 70-300 G kit lens.

Must ask my brother in law if he still has his 80-200 F2.8...

Fingers crossed... because I will have a pit pass as well!!

[drifter]

The promoters reply is a bit vague . Maybe write back and ask for accreditation . He might write back and say " yeah cool! No worries . "

Tasadam you won't have any problems taking any kind of camera into the V8's . The only clause they usually stipulate is that unless your ordained by AVESCO you can't sell the pics commercially .

I think 99 times out of 100 the no camera rule at concerts and major events is more to do with spectators comfort . If they have it open to all and sundry and someone shows up with huge glass and is getting in peoples way or more the issue, accidentely injures someone with it or someone walks into it etc.

[petermmc]

I went to an Irish Dancing National Contest in the convention centre at the Gold Coast 2 weeks ago where 2 of the kids were dancing. They were very strict about photography, especially flash photography. I took the 70-200, 2.8 and left it on 2.8 and got a few what I would call good shots out of the 160 I took. Nobody seemed to bother me too much but I was careful that I didnt make it too obvious that I was there.

Their 'big thing' is the copyright on the costumes. This is amazing. I only took shots where my own kids were involved. Same kind of issue as mentioned throughout this thread. There was no other facility to get photos of the gig...what is one to do. Too many rules in our world today, we should challenge the rule makers who make these rules for the paparatzi not us humble 'have fun' photopeople.

What can 'they' do if you do take a few shots? Confiscate or take your memory card? Is this legal? Stamping on your memory card is a bit more expensive than ripping out your film.

Peter Mc

[Hudo]

I take the same approach with my kids concerts. Just a fast lens as they say "no flash photography" and not make a scene while taking the shots. Usually as I don'e like pushig the ISO too hard I'll get a few good shots out of a hundred or so taken. The thing that then annoys me is the idiots who use their P&S digitals and can't turn of the flashes or the school teachers who end up taking pics anyway of which are poor quaility.

The schools / organisers usually enage a video company to film the event and you can buy the DVD for the amount of $25~$35 which is OK I guess but I wish they would enage a photographer as well. Who could sell prints for a fair price.

Also appreciate the copyright issues and not to mention taking photo's of children and how some sicko's have missused these images. The end results is it makes our hobby/ craft harder to engage in and only through having a clear and united voice will this improve. Time to get off my soap box and get the kids ready.

Mark