Few shot's with 5D today

[birddog114]

At the risk of being obvious... if you are going to buy a camera like the Canon 5D you would be wise to buy the best glass you can afford to go with it as well ... chances are you will not have so much difficulty with falloff at the corners.

Thanks Antsl,
These made me think more prior to spend another $20K on the 5D + best Canon glasses.
Ihave done my homework in the last couple weeks, but still waiting to see more positive signs from my colleagues who got their 5D as backup units to their top range 1Ds MKII, none of them (3 guys) haven't given me any replies yet, I'm hang on to it.
They promised they will let me play with it in the next few days when we get together.
I'm a Canon L plate!

[anubis]

Birdy, curiosity really, how did your comparison of the D2X v IDS Mark II go (you own both models right?)....

[birddog114]

Birdy, curiosity really, how did your comparison of the D2X v IDS Mark II go (you own both models right?)....

I don't have the 1Ds MKII, but shot with it few times, my colleagues have them and we swapped during the outing in big zoom lenses.

I still prefer the D2x in both AF and metering system, + nearly 1/2 the price of the 1Ds MKII, my friends also agreed, the D2x has more capabilities than what they thought and both have pros and cons. The D2x is still standing strong against the 1Ds MKII in between quality of pictures and pictures.

[DionM]

But if it's a lens for Canon's FF cameras, then using this lens for these examples is valid and appropriate, and the vignetting that we're seeing would also be an issue even on any of Canon's film cameras, and that would be, as you correctly point out, a serious issue with that lens, rather than with the camera.

17-40 F4L is a full frame lens.

It works fine on my film body.

Before everyone assumes ...

Kevin - do you recall if a filter was on the front of the 17-40? Such a wide angle on FF can easily suffer from vignetting with a too-thick filter on it.

I would also venture to suggest that everyone remember what a 17mm lens REALLY does look like (ie, full frame). You will get changes in blue when looking at a sky because it such a great range of sky (> 90deg).

[DionM]

The camera was fitted with, IIRC, a 24-135 IS USM lens, and we were not impressed with its focussing speed. Given the USM, I expected performance to be on a par with Nikkor AF-S lenses, but this was somewhat slower, probably no better than any similar Nikkor AF lens, which is ok, but certainly not sparkling, nor class-leading, performance.

As Petal666 said, the 28-135 was a fairly unspectacular lens (and overrated). Even my old $600 28-105 easily outclassed it. The lens is quite old too, using early generation USM and IS etc. Its also quite slow at f5.6.

[Antsl]

Hi Birddog,

With the limited time I have had with the 5D already I would consider it to be a good camera so long as you are prepared to do the thinking for it. Don't trust the AF in low light situations and don't rely on the evaluative metering either.

I have to say, if I was building my perfect camera at the moment it would have a Nikon body with Nikon AF and metering system and the Canon sensor (the 5D sensor would do fine) and the Digic II processor.

I had the 1Ds MKII and the D2X to play with side by side for a couple of weeks earlier this year and what was interesting was that the Nikon very competitive in most situations so long as you were not working at the higher ISO, this is where Canon rocks at the moment.

[DionM]

Hi Birddog,

With the limited time I have had with the 5D already I would consider it to be a good camera so long as you are prepared to do the thinking for it. Don't trust the AF in low light situations and don't rely on the evaluative metering either.

I have to say, if I was building my perfect camera at the moment it would have a Nikon body with Nikon AF and metering system and the Canon sensor (the 5D sensor would do fine) and the Digic II processor.

I had the 1Ds MKII and the D2X to play with side by side for a couple of weeks earlier this year and what was interesting was that the Nikon very competitive in most situations so long as you were not working at the higher ISO, this is where Canon rocks at the moment.

Antsl - what lens are you using?

Canon's are very fussy about the light on the AF sensor. Works best with f2.8 lenses. I would be surprised that Canon have a dud AF algorithm in the 5D - they really sorted it out a few years ago.

[Antsl]

I tried the first 5D with an 85mm f1.8 and had focussing difficulties in room light, then I had similar fun trying to get a good shot using the 17-40mm.

I then had the chance to take another unit for a wander about Melbourne but this time I had a 50mm f1.4 on it. Again focussing was an issue until I got into the habit of double tapping the focus ... using the AE/AF button as the focus start button I focused once and then pressed it again to let the focus seat itself. Reliability improved somewhat however some of the sharpest images were manually focused.

Still waiting on a third unit to take home and torture.... I am supposed to be getting a 28mm f1.8 to play with on that one. The results from this camera are excellent once you get it in focus and exposed properly. Its a great landscape, architecture type of camera... as a doco photographer though I am inclined to wait for another camera to come along. It is the story of my life at the moment (I am getting to save money though!).

[DionM]

I tried the first 5D with an 85mm f1.8 and had focussing difficulties in room light, then I had similar fun trying to get a good shot using the 17-40mm.

I then had the chance to take another unit for a wander about Melbourne but this time I had a 50mm f1.4 on it. Again focussing was an issue until I got into the habit of double tapping the focus ... using the AE/AF button as the focus start button I focused once and then pressed it again to let the focus seat itself. Reliability improved somewhat however some of the sharpest images were manually focused.

Still waiting on a third unit to take home and torture.... I am supposed to be getting a 28mm f1.8 to play with on that one. The results from this camera are excellent once you get it in focus and exposed properly. Its a great landscape, architecture type of camera... as a doco photographer though I am inclined to wait for another camera to come along. It is the story of my life at the moment (I am getting to save money though!).

Hmm, you're definately using the right lenses then!

Seems strange for them to go backwards with AF speed etc; I haven't had a problem with AF on my 20D with the 17-40, 50 1.4 or 70-200 2.8. The 100 2.8 macro is a little slow and sometimes not the best for AF, but that's more due to it being a macro (and being used for macro) than a failing of the camera.

I have found that my 20Ds images sharpened up a lot when using a monopod. Guess I just have shakey hands or something.

[birddog114]

Antsl & DionM,

I haven't got a luck to play with it yet, though I had two chances last long weekend but I didn't join the group who owns Canon gears, due to other commitments.

You're not the one talking about the AF & metering system of the Canon 5D, my friends also are surprised with it also, they thought these systems have been fixed since the last Canon dslr but still hunting on the Canon 5D, I think Canon wants: who able to get these bodies, must fork out a good capital to invest in the best of the best Canon glasses.

This also has been told: even with good or best glasses, Canon systems are not easy ways to work as Nikon due to its complexity and costly to move up or upgrade, talking here are related to genuine Canon glasses and Canon accessories.

The only thing, I have found with Nikon is noise or grainy in high ISO, but other are fine and it's an excellent camera, the D2x.

If we can mastered the Canon 5D, then it's also a great body with purposes of using as PJ, landscaping, architecture, when using the WA etc... due to its FF, I doubt about its performances in nature or wildlife or birding photography with the Canon long zoom glasses.

[sejanus]

Some interesting comments here.

I have had my 5D for about a week now. So far I've done 1 wedding and I went away for the long weekend and did a couple of very rushed landscapes.

I've found the camera to be pretty good and I'm starting to think of it like I did my old Kodak - an good sensor inside a average body. i.e. a D2x is certainly a lot nicer to use but I believe the 20d sensor is better than the D2x sensor.

I haven't had time to properly go through the wedding shots yet but I could maybe post some in a day or so. I did some in the church at 3200 iso and they were really good, probably only a fraction more noisy than the d2x at 800 iso.

I will post a couple of landscape shots but please bear in mind I'm not really a landscape sort of guy, and to make matters worse my wife was bugging me to hurry up so I really rushed these and didn't get the exposure spot on, and if that wasn't enough it was taken at midday on a very bright day.

Here's a 900 pixel shot, and then a small crop from it. This is f/11 at 25mm with the 24-70/2.8 lens.



a very small crop ;



and here's another one that I can't be bothered doing a crop of - this is with the 135/2 lens at f/16 i think.



And here's one with the 135/2 handheld at f/2, 400 iso.



I hope this helps a bit. My first decent shots from the camera won't come until I get to shoot in decent light, so far both times I've used it it's been incredibly bright/harsh.







[/img]

[gstark]

At last, some decent images from the camera.

These are much better, and give us much better idea that the camera is capable of doing what we expect it to do.

Bearing in mind what others have been saying about Canon images needing some element of PP, how much (if any) PP did you apply to these?

[sejanus]

nothing except for light usm, i think 140/0.3/0

the 100% crop is unsharpened

[Alpha_7]

These look much better Something very relaxing about running water.
Do you have any shots you can post of the wedding ?

[Heath Bennett]

nothing except for light usm, i think 140/0.3/0

the 100% crop is unsharpened

Have you seen the D2x versus 1dsII comparison using the same type of lens that you have used? It is on the dpreview D2x review.

[sejanus]

no i haven't. comparisons like that are garbage in my opinion due to differing lens samples, differing AA filters and many other variables.

[Heath Bennett]

no i haven't. comparisons like that are garbage in my opinion due to differing lens samples, differing AA filters and many other variables.

I have always thought it best to get my information from as many sources as possible before making statements like 'the 20D sensor is better than the D2x sensor'. Where would your evidence be for that belief? Calling something that a post brings into the conversation 'garbage' isn't exactly a nice thing to do - however I am sorry if I upset you by mentioning the review.

Why would you say that a 8mp sensor is better than a 12mp sensor?

[gstark]

Have you seen the D2x versus 1dsII comparison using the same type of lens that you have used? It is on the dpreview D2x review.

What's it supposed to achieve?

Perhaps it proves that chalk tastes nothing like cheese?

The D2x is, as we all accept, a great camera. So too is the 1DSII. Both will help a great photographer make great images, and either will help a useless photographer continue to make crappy images.

Who cares ? That sort of comparison is a total and complete waste of time!

[gstark]

nothing except for light usm, i think 140/0.3/0

the 100% crop is unsharpened

Great stuff.

Thanx for this.

[Heath Bennett]

Have you seen the D2x versus 1dsII comparison using the same type of lens that you have used? It is on the dpreview D2x review.

What's it supposed to achieve?

Perhaps it proves that chalk tastes nothing like cheese?

The D2x is, as we all accept, a great camera. So too is the 1DSII. Both will help a great photographer make great images, and either will help a useless photographer continue to make crappy images.

Who cares ? That sort of comparison is a total and complete waste of time!

He owns 2 D2x's so I wasn't saying something to irritate him. I was just replying in context. He said that the 20D sensor was better than the D2x so I thought comparing the top level bodies of both marque's would be more appropriate - and they are very very close.

[thaddeus]

Who cares ? That sort of comparison is a total and complete waste of time!

I care. I was quite surprised to see how similarly they performed.
If you think it's a waste of time, just ignore it!

[ajo43]

for a second then I thought I was on dpreview.com but then I checked the URL! And yes we are heading down a canon v nikon slanging match.

I am truly interested in seeing some great 5D pics. I have no interest in comparing which is better, although I'm happy to hear what the 5D does really well and what a full sensor camera is like.

Bring on the photos, not the technical debate. If you've looked on dpreview lately you'll see what this kind of thing leads to.... I only go there now for selacious gossip regarding the next new release or if I want to get some mild satisfaction from watching morons slug it out over some stupid spec.

Then I come back here after 5 minutes were the people are civil and Canon and Nikon live together in unity (sorta).....

[Antsl]

I own Nikon and I really thought the 5D might be the camera I should change on to. After using it though, I have decided that this is not a camera I can rely on when the going gets tough. It is not a Canon / Nikon thing, it is simply a case of "this camera either cuts it for me or it doesn't cut it".

Anyone can put almost any current digital camera on a tripod, crank down the ISO, use a tight aperture, manually focus and meter to get good images like this in controlled environments (lets face it... this waterfall was not exactly going anywhere fast). What happens though when you are working handheld at night in a challenging light environment with only one chance of getting the image. Thats what seperates one camera from another.

The 5D has an great sensor and an average AF, AE system. It does not need to be compared to any other camera to tell you that.

[sejanus]

dude, relax. I wasn't upset and I was not having a go at you so calm down.

That is a BIG typo I did, I meant to say I think the 5d sensor is better than the d2x sensor.

To the 20d though for the moment to answer your question, I think it's a much more flexible sensor than the d2x sensor due to it's realistic 100-3200 spread. The skin tones are also a lot nicer straight out of the camera. I liked my d2x but never got it producing like it should have for $7100.

Body wise though the d2x destroys the 5d and 20d, it's not even a comparison.

no i haven't. comparisons like that are garbage in my opinion due to differing lens samples, differing AA filters and many other variables.

I have always thought it best to get my information from as many sources as possible before making statements like 'the 20D sensor is better than the D2x sensor'. Where would your evidence be for that belief? Calling something that a post brings into the conversation 'garbage' isn't exactly a nice thing to do - however I am sorry if I upset you by mentioning the review.

Why would you say that a 8mp sensor is better than a 12mp sensor?

[sejanus]

Sorry, again that was a bad typo. To categorically fix this ;

1) I only owned 1 D2x and 1 Kodak slr/n

2) I believe the 5d sensor is better than the nikon, but this is not due to taking photos of stuff inside a studio like on dpreview - this is just my gut feel which I have found pretty reliable over the many dslr's I've owned and I prefer this over dpreview, kenrockwell etc.

3) The d2x is definitely a much better body sensor aside, than any canon body full stop.

He owns 2 D2x's so I wasn't saying something to irritate him. I was just replying in context. He said that the 20D sensor was better than the D2x so I thought comparing the top level bodies of both marque's would be more appropriate - and they are very very close.

[gstark]

Have you seen the D2x versus 1dsII comparison using the same type of lens that you have used? It is on the dpreview D2x review.

What's it supposed to achieve?

Perhaps it proves that chalk tastes nothing like cheese?

The D2x is, as we all accept, a great camera. So too is the 1DSII. Both will help a great photographer make great images, and either will help a useless photographer continue to make crappy images.

Who cares ? That sort of comparison is a total and complete waste of time!

He owns 2 D2x's so I wasn't saying something to irritate him. I was just replying in context. He said that the 20D sensor was better than the D2x so I thought comparing the top level bodies of both marque's would be more appropriate - and they are very very close.

No, you were not.

You were asking if we'd seen the comparison between the two cameras on DPR. Please reread where I've quoted your exact words.

[sejanus]

hmmm

You use the right tool. If you want low light AF then yeah by all means get a D2x/D2h or a Canon 1 series body. The 5D despite it's pricetag is not a pro body - you are paying for the 12mp FF sensor, and nothing else.

So basically if you don't care for FF 12mp, and you want lowlight fast AF then yep don't touch a 5d or a 20d.

for what it's worth though, I had no probs AF'ing in very dark light at a wedding using the 85/1.2 - as an idea how dark it was I was only getting f/2.2'ish at 3200 iso at 1/80th. It is definitely not in the same league as a pro af motor though.

I own Nikon and I really thought the 5D might be the camera I should change on to. After using it though, I have decided that this is not a camera I can rely on when the going gets tough. It is not a Canon / Nikon thing, it is simply a case of "this camera either cuts it for me or it doesn't cut it".

Anyone can put almost any current digital camera on a tripod, crank down the ISO, use a tight aperture, manually focus and meter to get good images like this in controlled environments (lets face it... this waterfall was not exactly going anywhere fast). What happens though when you are working handheld at night in a challenging light environment with only one chance of getting the image. Thats what seperates one camera from another.

The 5D has an great sensor and an average AF, AE system. It does not need to be compared to any other camera to tell you that.

[gstark]

for a second then I thought I was on dpreview.com but then I checked the URL! And yes we are heading down a canon v nikon slanging match.

Not as yet.

The primary argument seems to be that some believe that there needs to be a pissing contest between the 5D/D2x, as evidenced on DPR, but as yet nobody seems to have produced an even remotely convincing argument of why this needs to be done.

I simply contend that, as you seem to, the camera should be able to stand on its own merits, and you seem to want, as do I, to see some goiod images made with the camera.

I still fail to see what good, if any, a comparison will do, and as I've said, there has not been even a remotely convincing germ of an argument in support of that concept.

So, let's all get back to the basics of this thread, and simply see and discuss images made with the 5D.

No further mention of Nikon or comparisons therewith is welcome in this thread.

[Sheetshooter]

Out of curiosity I did a small test today comparing my 17-4mm zoom set at 20mm with the EF 20mm 2.8. All in all both lenses are commendable but slightly different: in the centre of the image the 20mm 2.8 might have a tad finer resolution than the zoom (there's only a rat's tit in it and says more about how good the zoom is than how bad the prime is), but move to the edges and I would give the zoom the nod. Both are good but I will settle for just the zoom given the added convenience of being able to go onto a dusty building site and shoot without changing lenses. (Funny how all these OTHER parameters come into the decision making process once there is a set agenda laid before the kit).

As happy as I am with the new Canon gear and as well suited as it is for my style of shooting and technique I must say that it was all somewhat overshadowed this arvo by the acquisition of an Apo-Tele Xenar 400mm Compact for my 4x5. The DSLR will only ever be a means to an end for but there is real passion in my LF black & white work.

[gstark]

says more about how good the zoom is than how bad the prime is

That is really quite interesting. I expected the prime to be nice, but for the zoom to b able to effectively match it is really saying something.

As happy as I am with the new Canon gear and as well suited as it is for my style of shooting and technique I must say that it was all somewhat overshadowed this arvo by the acquisition of an Apo-Tele Xenar 400mm Compact for my 4x5. The DSLR will only ever be a means to an end for but there is real passion in my LF black & white work.

Get a bellows set for the Canon, and use that to mount the Apo-Tele Xenar onto the 5D. That would make for an interesting shooting setup!

[Antsl]

As happy as I am with the new Canon gear and as well suited as it is for my style of shooting and technique I must say that it was all somewhat overshadowed this arvo by the acquisition of an Apo-Tele Xenar 400mm Compact for my 4x5. The DSLR will only ever be a means to an end for but there is real passion in my LF black & white work.

My advice to you here, Sheetshooter, as with the 5D... only use the 4x5 in manual focus and manual metering/exposure mode and you'll get great images!

(Couldn't resist that thought!!)

[Sheetshooter]

Antsl,

Many a true word said in jest. That is exactly how I intend functioning with the 5D. I generaly photography a depth of SPACE as opposed to the surface of THINGS. I need to select a point in a void as my plane of focus in order for the near and the far areas of that space or the mass of a solid to be captured with acceptable sharpness.

Apart from the wide-angle aspect of a full 36x24 sensor the larger, more discernable viewfinder is also a significant factor in the choice I made.

The Canon EOS 5D will spend its life permanently bolted down to tripods and kitted up with a spirit level and a remote release.

One piece of the Canon kit that has me baffled as to their design parameters is the MIRROR-UP function. I paid the extra for a timer remote relase cable (TC-80N3) which does all sports of amazing things but still no alternative to going deep into the Custom Functions Menu to enable (or more likely disenable) mirror-up. The camera will never be used at other than 100 ISO (just as I never used any other speed of film in my commercial work) and more often than not the exposures for interiors will be in the region of 1/8th second to about 4-seconds. Mirror-up is crucial at those speeds and to that end even when I occasionally used the Mamiya RZ for such stuff I would pre-release the mirror.

As for the hand-metering: well I have to be honest and say that so far I am very impressed by the consistency of exposure using Evaluative Metering in Aperture Priority Automatic. For a time I shall also use my Colour Meter to keep a check on how the camera sorts out colour balance (or in digital should I say White Balance? - Wonder why that is?)

I don't ever envisage using anything but RAW capture so I think it is just handy to have the reference information in the beginning.

With regard to Gary's suggestion of a bellows on the 5D with the Apo-Tele Xenar - I shudder to think of the enormous levels of bellows flare given the huge image circle of the lens. I also see this as an issue with these hybrid little view-camera-style attachments like the Horseperson (must be Politically Correct, mustn't we, none of this Horseman nonsense will do!).

Cheers,

[Heath Bennett]

Have you seen the D2x versus 1dsII comparison using the same type of lens that you have used? It is on the dpreview D2x review.

What's it supposed to achieve?

Perhaps it proves that chalk tastes nothing like cheese?

The D2x is, as we all accept, a great camera. So too is the 1DSII. Both will help a great photographer make great images, and either will help a useless photographer continue to make crappy images.

Who cares ? That sort of comparison is a total and complete waste of time!

He owns 2 D2x's so I wasn't saying something to irritate him. I was just replying in context. He said that the 20D sensor was better than the D2x so I thought comparing the top level bodies of both marque's would be more appropriate - and they are very very close.

No, you were not.

You were asking if we'd seen the comparison between the two cameras on DPR. Please reread where I've quoted your exact words.

I am sorry - I do not understand what you mean by that. To me, at least, what I said made sense. It seems obvious to me that what I said was in context.

When someone makes a bold claim about which sensor is best - comparing two APC-sized CMOS sensors (20D's 8mp vs D2x's 12mp), I think it is useful to have reasoning behind this belief. I put the DPR suggestion forward as a more fair comparison (the top bodies for both makes).

[gstark]

Have you seen the D2x versus 1dsII comparison using the same type of lens that you have used? It is on the dpreview D2x review.

What's it supposed to achieve?

Perhaps it proves that chalk tastes nothing like cheese?

The D2x is, as we all accept, a great camera. So too is the 1DSII. Both will help a great photographer make great images, and either will help a useless photographer continue to make crappy images.

Who cares ? That sort of comparison is a total and complete waste of time!

He owns 2 D2x's so I wasn't saying something to irritate him. I was just replying in context. He said that the 20D sensor was better than the D2x so I thought comparing the top level bodies of both marque's would be more appropriate - and they are very very close.

No, you were not.

You were asking if we'd seen the comparison between the two cameras on DPR. Please reread where I've quoted your exact words.

I am sorry - I do not understand what you mean by that. To me, at least, what I said made sense. It seems obvious to me that what I said was in context.

With all due respect, the context that you are claiming may exist, but if you go back and review your postings, that may only be in your mind; it ceratinly does not exist in fact, and certainly not within the context of your postings - and the quotes you have embedded therein - within this thread.



To put this as simply as I can, you made a reference to the DPR comparison, and the only context wityhin which you placed that refernce, was as a direct response to Sejanus's response to my query regarding any post processing he appl;ied to his image.

So, the context is ...

Sejanus posts an image; I ask about what, if any, post processing was applied to that image, Sejanus responds that none was applied, and you respond to that posting with a direct reference to the DPR comparison, and with no real comment other than that reference!

Please now go back and review this entire thread. Closely.

And then please accept that this line of posting is off-topic within this thread's context.

[DionM]

That is really quite interesting. I expected the prime to be nice, but for the zoom to b able to effectively match it is really saying something.

The 17-40 is quite good. Better than the 18-55 (remember that thread ). It is also dust and moisture sealed, a boon for uses such as what Sheetshooter has identified.

[Heath Bennett]

Have you seen the D2x versus 1dsII comparison using the same type of lens that you have used? It is on the dpreview D2x review.

What's it supposed to achieve?

Perhaps it proves that chalk tastes nothing like cheese?

The D2x is, as we all accept, a great camera. So too is the 1DSII. Both will help a great photographer make great images, and either will help a useless photographer continue to make crappy images.

Who cares ? That sort of comparison is a total and complete waste of time!

He owns 2 D2x's so I wasn't saying something to irritate him. I was just replying in context. He said that the 20D sensor was better than the D2x so I thought comparing the top level bodies of both marque's would be more appropriate - and they are very very close.

No, you were not.

You were asking if we'd seen the comparison between the two cameras on DPR. Please reread where I've quoted your exact words.

I am sorry - I do not understand what you mean by that. To me, at least, what I said made sense. It seems obvious to me that what I said was in context.

With all due respect, the context that you are claiming may exist, but if you go back and review your postings, that may only be in your mind; it ceratinly does not exist in fact, and certainly not within the context of your postings - and the quotes you have embedded therein - within this thread.



To put this as simply as I can, you made a reference to the DPR comparison, and the only context wityhin which you placed that refernce, was as a direct response to Sejanus's response to my query regarding any post processing he appl;ied to his image.

So, the context is ...

Sejanus posts an image; I ask about what, if any, post processing was applied to that image, Sejanus responds that none was applied, and you respond to that posting with a direct reference to the DPR comparison, and with no real comment other than that reference!

Please now go back and review this entire thread. Closely.

And then please accept that this line of posting is off-topic within this thread's context.

you are right, the post is about a different topic.