"Hot manure" to ban photography on the beach

[birddog114]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/sur ... 97675.html

[gstark]

At least in this one they're saying they'll permit parent to take photos of their kids, but it's a load of horseshit. How approriate that a load of horseshit is placed before Ruddock. I hope he has it for breakfast.

[birddog114]

Perhaps these following links have been posted previously in our forum but they are everywhere, hard to search and track.

These are great informations if we have these links as sticky so other members may use or read them when needed, these pdf files are valuable for our photographers, whether it's just your hobby or doing works as a Pro.

Photographers Rights, General Privacy, and Copyright in Australia

http://www.virtualcity.com.au/~spmmc/ne ... Daniel.pdf
http://www.4020.net/unposed/privacy.shtml
http://www.aph.gov.au/Library/pubs/rn/2 ... 05rn37.pdf
http://www.copyright.org.au/pdf/acc/InfoSheets/G011.pdf
http://www.artslaw.com.au/LegalInformat ... eImage.asp
http://www.copyright.com.au/info%20shee ... aphers.pdf

[Nnnnsic]

I think these people have missed the point of why a lot of photographers take pictures at the beach... there's this thing called "the beach" with it's "ocean" and "reclining people" that seem to make for good pictures, as well as the "lifeguards running in with boats to save people who are out too deep for their own good".

It's nice to see people missing the point again.

[moggy]

Thanks for the links Birddog, there's some very interesting reading there.

Bob.

.

[owen]

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showt ... p?t=421493

This link has all the links Birdy posted in a nice easy-to-read format. If you're not a member of overclockers.com.au then you won't be able to read the link.

Regards,
Owen.

[MattC]

Oh great, another round of BS. Penalise the overwhelming majority for the actions of the minority. It would be interesting to see some stats on how many people who own cameras take photographs of young children for some sort of sick gratification. 0.1%... 0.01%.... less????
Mind you, if I ever caught someone doing the wrong thing, I would be inclined to rip his (or her) head of purely because their actions could/would impact on my freedoms. I would prefer to be known as a heavy handed mongrel thug than be viewed as a potential rock-spider.
Any such legislation potentially criminalises the innocent, casting an air of suspicion around anyone who carries a camera, particularly those with "big" lenses.

My rant for the day.

Cheers

[sirhc55]

Just released a brand new anti-pedophile digital camera - specifically designed to shoot these cretins - it has a 9mm sensor and although the name has not been decided yet, a working group likes the name Glock

[MattC]

 LOL Thanks Chris. That lightened things up for me.

Cheers

[redline]

[swilk]

One of my favourite pastimes is to photograph seagulls at our local beach. I use a telephoto lens to get the perspective I want. Recently I have been taking my wife along with me so I don't feel uncomfortable with other beachgoers.

If this crazy legislation gets through I will sue the pants off anybody who walks in front of my camera for placing me in a potentially embarrasing situation:)

This kind of stuff just makes me mad. There has got to be some other way of stopping the sickos without mucking it up for the rest of us!

Steve

[agriffiths]

I've been following this story closely since as a life guard in Lorne I would have the responsibility to police this ignorant nonsense.

It seems that over the last couple of years SLSA has been infiltrated by a bunch of nasty little lawyers who have gone about instigating a number of idiotic changes just like this one.

It started when they changed the questions in our annual requlaification paper from practical things like "how do you treat a heart attack victim" to usless crap like "what does legislation 12.3.1 refer to".

These people are so far separated from reality its not funny....and to tell the truth, bloody scary.

Next they'll be requiring licence and identification papers for anyone entering the water and permits for anyone building a sand caslte. I can see it now.... "sorry son I'll have to ask to see your building permit for that one... I think you'll find that according to law 20324.234234.24341 the mote is .5cm too wide".

It's laughable to think that these people could possibly be acting in support of the free society that Australia prides itself to be. If this legislation goes through they'll find that people won't want to swim between the flags for fear of being persecuted. I'll be damned if I have to police such an outrageous law.

Of course having said all this I would come down hard on anyone I thought was acting suspicously with a camera around the youngsters.

Ok, I'm off the soap box now.

[wendellt]

I think these people have missed the point of why a lot of photographers take pictures at the beach... there's this thing called "the beach" with it's "ocean" and "reclining people" that seem to make for good pictures, as well as the "lifeguards running in with boats to save people who are out too deep for their own good".

It's nice to see people missing the point again.

how do the people photographing surfers get away with huge lenses with tripods on a beach, they look pretty obvious.

[sirhc55]

My belief is that the time has arrived when we should look at a generic T-shirt that all forum members wear.

For example: http://www.dslr.net - I am a Photographer NOT a pedaphile

[birddog114]

Another related reading to this thread today on SMH:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/the ... 96647.html

To be continued.

[DionM]

My belief is that the time has arrived when we should look at a generic T-shirt that all forum members wear.

For example: http://www.dslr.net - I am a Photographer NOT a pedaphile

It may come to that. Or having a set of business cards printed with my mobile number etc on it, to try and allay their fears, if I was approached.

I must admit though, I don't really take beach candids. But it sounds like a lynch mob will jump on you even if you just walk past with a Lowepro bag ...

[Oneputt]

Whilst personally I agree with most of what has been said in this thread, my kids both came up through the Surf Lifesaving movement and my daughter now has her young son in the Nippers. Believe me she and 100% of the other parents support the submission.

It will be interesting to see what pans out. Statistics will count for nothing, for example what percentage of the population commit murder? Do we not have the laws making it illegal?

[the foto fanatic]

Any motor car has the potential to badly injure or kill.
Do we ban all motor cars?

Some beach photographs could end up on inappropriate web sites.
Should we ban all photography on the beach?

Is a person a paedophile if he/she takes photographs of children at the beach? I bet almost every family in Australia has, in their family photo album, some pix of the kids on the beach, or in a swimming pool, or even playing under the garden hose in their togs.

Should we lose all of this?

The world is going mad, and going madder by the day.

[Oneputt]

It is Trevor, and we are being led by the idiots

[sirhc55]

Unfortunately any submission of this type becomes an insidious virus that penetrates all ways of life.

Eventually, what is a great hobby will become secretative, exactly how pedophiles work now.

We live in a time of advancing paranoia - we are asked by the government to report any suspicious activity - the result so far is that approximately a dozen men have been taken into custody with regard to terrorism. But, there have been many, many thousands of calls - the result of paranoia. The acts of misguided jihad muslims is causing the decent and honest muslims to suffer.

Why should the majority of decent honest people be made to suffer because of the warped and twisted minds of the very small minority!

I have personally been approached by a young woman in the middle of Neutral Bay and told that what I was doing was illegal - D70 with 70-200 attached and taking pics of a building.

Rant over

[birddog114]

Pls. excuse my ignorance!

What a person or paedophile can do with those pics of Nippers?
Or any children at the swimming pool or at other events? When the children are in fully clothed.

How are of photos of children with swimsuit, bikini or other clothing on many catalogues of all the Dept. stores? can they scan these photos and use them as their passion?

Can a tourist or a photographer take a photo of a beach and those children are in their viewfinder? yes or no?

I still don't get it!!!!!!!

[stubbsy]

Consider this, too. The idea is to ban people taking photographs of children at the beach because some sick person may get a perverted pleasure from looking at them. We're not talking naked pics here, we're just talking pics of children. Now look at the junk mail you get stuffed in your letter box. There you'll find photographs carefully constructed to sell products. Some of these are children's products and guess what sort of photo's you see - children in pyjamas, wearing swimming gear and, heaven forbid, modelling children's underwear.

Do the people who want to ban beach pics without permission think that will stop the paedophiles? Surely the paedophiles can get just as much "pleasure" from the junk mail pics (taken with consent, presumably) as they can by going to the beach and taking their grubby little pics themselves. And I won't even talk about what sort of nasties are readily accesible over the net

Banning the taking of pics of children at the beach without consent just will NOT stop the problem and it's naive to think it will.

[Oneputt]

Birdie sadly clothed or not, pictures of some kids are finding there way on to innapropriate sites and are obviously being used for some deviates satisfaction. I must admit if it were my child, I would probably feel the same as my daughter.

It is just another sign of sadly declining society standards

[agriffiths]

Well put stubbsy. I couldn't agree more.

I understand that parents worry about their kids being photographed for the wrong reason and sympathise with parents completely. However, it seems to me that this solution has not been thought through at all.

Why don't we just ban photography all together.... and while we're at it we can ban people from using the beaches, parks, and schools. Then what kind of society would we be living in?

[birddog114]

Oneputt,
Echo from my previously & stubbsy's posts.

So, do all the photos of the children on catalogues or advertisement brochures are in danger to the children in those junk mails if they are into the hands of the bad guys?

Why their parents do not stop their children in doing it? Money, isn't it?

Don't you think the bad guys can use those junk mails for their passion?

[gleff]

Whilst personally I agree with most of what has been said in this thread, my kids both came up through the Surf Lifesaving movement and my daughter now has her young son in the Nippers. Believe me she and 100% of the other parents support the submission.

It will be interesting to see what pans out. Statistics will count for nothing, for example what percentage of the population commit murder? Do we not have the laws making it illegal?

Isn't that like comparing apples with oranges..

Eg. What percentage of the population are murderers, we DO have laws that make it illegal, however, so is Pedophilia.

A better analogy would be like banning knives because of a small percentage of the population that commit murder just because that's a tool they use.

[birddog114]

Well put stubbsy. I couldn't agree more.

I understand that parents worry about their kids being photographed for the wrong reason and sympathise with parents completely. However, it seems to me that this solution has not been thought through at all.

Why don't we just ban photography all together.... and while we're at it we can ban people from using the beaches, parks, and schools. Then what kind of society would we be living in?

I said it before on other threads:
Camera(s) will be licensed same as gun, weapons
To own or carry a camera into public areas, required a security clearance or an accreditation!!! Crap!!!!! and crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hot manure again

[sirhc55]

Banning any form of photography will not stop the determined pedophile.

Does a house alarm system stop a professional thief - NO. Does a car alarm stop a professional thief - NO. Does security software stop a professional hacker - NO.

Instead of banning photography the authorities should be more determined in their efforts to ban pedophile websites. Will they - NO.

[MHD]

My belief is that the time has arrived when we should look at a generic T-shirt that all forum members wear.

For example: http://www.dslr.net - I am a Photographer NOT a pedaphile

I LIKE!

[birddog114]

Chris,
Yes, I like your impression!!!!!
If parent has been approached from a stranger with somew cash to take photos of their children, then they will say : YES. and no rant!.

We had a tough gun laws in Australia same as the new terror laws, will those laws stop the mass murder of the innocent people? as in London, Bali or Iraq?

[moggy]

Instead of banning photography the authorities should be more determined in their efforts to ban pedophile websites. Will they - NO.

And why wont they ban the sites? Because the same people who stand there wringing their hands about these dreadfull sites would then jump up and down screaming about the individuals 'rights' if the government did try to shut the sites down! You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. End of rave.

Bob.

.

[birddog114]

And there are more of photos taken by many photographers of their children, nephews, nieces, friends, showing on the NET, can those photos be copied and used them against their wishes.
Do they stop these photos to be posted on the NET as well

[gstark]

Let's just ban the bloody politicians and be done with it!

[shutterbug]

This is totally BS....what happens when I am at the beach taking wedding pics of B&G and in the background I also capture some kid in my frame

[gleff]

This is totally BS....what happens when I am at the beach taking wedding pics of B&G and in the background I also capture some kid in my frame

Then your a pedophile At least that's what the politicians would have you believe.

[birddog114]

This is totally BS....what happens when I am at the beach taking wedding pics of B&G and in the background I also capture some kid in my frame

shutterbug,

Wedding photograph will be only permitted in the cemetery in the near future no more beach (paedophile issue), no more Opera House or Harbour Bridge or any landmark (terrorist issue)

But can take porn on the beach only coz the public want to see it free.

[shutterbug]

hahahahahahahahah

This is sooooooooooo true....these days, venues are asking for Public Liability Insurance and also parks...etc are asking for a Huge $$$$$ to be able to take pics.

These days, if you ask you get charged. So most of my clients just go and take pics and if we get ask to leave we leave

I have it in my contract that they have to organise to permits and pay all fees for location shoots.

ps. The recent model shoot I did, my client wanted to go to Burwood Park to take the pics there...she calls up the council.....the council wanted this and that...public Liability insurnace for 1million....it was crazy...she cancelled it and they even said that if we find you there on the day..you will be fined.

[birddog114]

shutterbug,
Try yourself at one of the cemetries! it's free, no chargeable
Only chargeable if people wants a small block of land in those territories or 1/2 hour in the crematorium.

Yes, many fees applied now to all the commercial shootings, landmark etc...
Your shooting may attract many bystanders and cause car accidents or injurring to the pedsetrians, bystander, chimper or lurkers.

This forum hurts so many lurkers, and it may get sued by them

[shutterbug]

I bet if you call the cemetries they will charge you

Also I have seen some wedding images done at the cemetries...looks wicked

[MCWB]

I have personally been approached by a young woman in the middle of Neutral Bay and told that what I was doing was illegal - D70 with 70-200 attached and taking pics of a building.

Seriously, if not for the comedic entertainment provided, it should be illegal to be such an idiot. I don't know which of these emoticons is more appropriate, maybe both:

I have a new idea for taxation reform, including sweeping reforms to the GST (to be known as the Goon Stupidity Tax) and the FBT (Filthy Bogan Tax), don't ban the pollies just yet Gary.

[Raskill]

I personally don't agree with this crap, but it's not up to me. Without looking to deeply into it, I'd say that local councils, such as the inpeccable Bondi Local Council (or what ever it's called) will have power under the 'Local Government Act' to make any rules they want (It's a very powerful peice of legislation, allowing councils to make their own law).

But remember, someone has to police them.... I can assure you that most Police won't give two stuffs that someone is taking photos near a beach. Maybe some over zelous ranger might, but even if they give you an infringment notice you can always defend it at court.

With regards to what you were saying Birdie about fully clothed pics of kids and underwear adds in brochures. I've had the task of arresting two rockspiders at work, an believe it or not, both have had photo albums full of undie adds from BigW/Kmart/Best and Less etc. They are sick b@stards. But like you said, are they going to ban those adds, I don't think so.

If they plan on stopping photgraphy at the beach, then maybe they should ban idiots at the same time, and close federal, state and local government.

[gstark]

don't ban the pollies just yet Gary.

Trent,

Why not?

Can you show me just one useful thing any pollie has done over, say, the last five years?

Maybe just show me one who has actually earned his or her pay?

[gstark]

If they plan on stopping photgraphy at the beach, then maybe they should ban idiots at the same time,

I was going to say that photographers are easier to identify, as they're the ones carrying a camera, but then I realised that the idiots were not!

[MCWB]

Why not?

So I can bring in these sweeping new reforms, I'm particularly keen on the Filthy Bogan Tax (FBT), fringe benefits for us all.

[Raskill]

I've always said things will be different when I'm King, er... President!

[Dug]

It's bull dust but it is happening and the more people talk about it in the press the more the fear grows. It seem to be a self fulfilling prophecy.

The people who stopped the cops from beating the cr@p out of rock spiders are the same people who want to ban photography.

I will keep taking photos and talking to people about what I do if we stop doing it we have admitted defeat and that we were doing something that was wrong.

the best way to protest is to get out and commit photography!!