SNOW EXPOSURE

[glass eye]

Hi to all;

Can anyone advise me on + exposure compensation as im planning a snowboarding trip to japan.

I realise that shooting in RAW i can adjust this in PP but the flash card will hold less.Plus the buffer fills up to quick especially when i want to take 15 frames and layer them all on one frame.

John

[avkomp]

never tried shooting in snow.

despise cold wet conditions!! but according to some stuff I have seen,
+1, +1.3 ev should be a starting point when photograhing white subjects against snow.

The problem is that the exposure meter is calibrated to meter subjects as if they are neutral tone ( 18% grey. thats what those grey cards are for)
bright white will reflect more light and since the camera will regard it as neutral tones, the shots will be underexposed. typically this will produce grey snow. (repeating again that I havent tried shooting in snow cos I hate cold.)

Someone from here will have shot show shots before and should be able to steer you the correct way.
You have digital anyhow so should be able to figure out whether you have it about right or not
Steve

[jethro]

Take a polariser. Having not shot snow before im assuming its as much of a challenge as shooting surf into the sun. My polariser works well under these conditions.
Thats my 2 bobs worth
Jethro

[glass eye]

Thanks guys;

I think the polariser is a good tip jethro.I have a UV on at the moment but will take a polariser.I think around +1.3 EV will be spot on.

Regards John

[kipper]

Your best bet would be to talk to Darb (Brad) about this as he's the resident snow bunny around here

Really depends on the day that you're shooting on I guess. Remember snow makes a good reflector so your subjects should be getting a fair bit of reflected light off the snow. On a bright day try metering off the snow and adjusting exposure from that, I'd say maybe one stop. Take a few shots and see how you go. Definately take a CPL as others have said.

[striking]

glass eye

when i am in a tricky lighting situation i manually meter of a known neutral grey subject.

in the snow on a fine day just point the camera up at the blue sky ( 90 degrees away from the sun) and that reading will be neutral grey, if you set you camera to suit that light then you will not go wrong. it tis the exact technique i used in my recent trip to perisher and all pics were exposed spot on

i love the snow have fun

-chris

[avkomp]

when i am in a tricky lighting situation i manually meter of a known neutral grey subject.

thats why they sell grey cards.

I have had mine for years. mainly use it these days to confirm that my exposure meter works

is 18% grey on one side, and bright white on the other.
I hardly use it though.
you get to recognize how various things relate to neutral grey.

Steve

[kipper]

Isn't there an interesting subject on grey cards and given that they're 18% grey and the metering on cameras is setup for a different percentage like 14%?

[avkomp]

well darryl, this is interesting because I have read that they should be 12 percent up to 14 percent.

All I can say is that the 18% grey card tests I did on my d70 in bright sunlight confirmed the sunny 16 rule. and that my +2 white card was exactly +2 so I trust it absolutely.

Steve

[striking]

avkomp

grey cards are very handy, though never carried one with me in the field always said to myself ( i should get a grey card )I usually used to use a spot meter and the zone system particulay for working out dynamic range

and like you say alot of objects around are very close to neutral grey

[Matt. K]

You have been given some good advice by the abover members however.....I believe the matrix metering on the D70 is sophisiticated to a degree where it will do a pretty good job without any...or very little, compensation. Fire a couple of test shots when you get there and check the histogram. Expose so that the histogram almost reaches the right hand side limit. If possible, download a couple of test shots to a laptop and check them out. I am sure that adding +1 or more f/stops of exposure compensation will be overkill and blow the snow to pure white. A polarising filter will have no effect on the snow but may give you deeper blue skys. The filter will coast you a stop or 2 of light. I would maybe use one for land/snow scapes, but not for skiers or alpine sport.

[glass eye]

So the matrix metering Matty K will pretty much compensate this.Im not sure on how to use a grey card,ive read heaps on the grey card subject but am a little stumped on how to use one so ill stick to Matty K"s advice on the matrix metering.

[avkomp]

not sure if I would bet the house on matrix metering solving the problem.
I believe (remembering that I hate cold and therefore havent tested this)
that if you use matrix metering, it will analyse the whole scene and give you an exposure to use but it will be based on the assumption that the scene is neutral tone and you will get underexposure.

I would definitely take some test shots before the money ones to make sure I was getting what was expected.

typical use of a grey card would be putting it or having someone hold it where you are taking the photo. walk up to it and spot meter the light and use that exposure in manual mode.

of course this only works if the light is constant throughout the shot.
If there were strong shadow areas in your shot and you did the grey card measurement in a brightly lit area, you would get the right exposure for the bright area and underexposure for the shadows. so it is a guideline to use in even light.


Steve

[Geoff]

Hi to all;

Can anyone advise me on + exposure compensation as im planning a snowboarding trip to japan.

I realise that shooting in RAW i can adjust this in PP but the flash card will hold less.Plus the buffer fills up to quick especially when i want to take 15 frames and layer them all on one frame.

John

If I can come, I'm sure we'll work it out together

[Hlop]

As striking said - switch metering to the Spot mode, point D70 to bright snow area and set it to +2 or bit lower (+1.7). Then, this will be a brightest part of the image

[glass eye]

MMM got me thinking now.

I want to nail this cause i havent till this day and dont want to resort to AUTO setting and when the pressure is on whilist shooting.

GEOFF ill send you the shots are you a snow buff.Japan is awsome so much snow.

I might e mail DARB

[avkomp]

As striking said - switch metering to the Spot mode, point D70 to bright snow area and set it to +2 or bit lower (+1.7). Then, this will be a brightest part of the image

sounds about right. on my grey card brilliant white shows up at -2, so I need to use +2 to shoot it as white.

so spotmetering off the brightest part of the scene and going +2 sounds like a plan to me.

Steve

[olrac]

Glass eye,

Where and when are you going?

My wife and I are going to be in Nagano for the last two weeks of Feb,

I just cant wait, it is my first sojourn to foreign alps...

[Matt. K]

avkomp
Matrix metering is a little smarter then you think. It knows what colours are in your image.. Yes...that's right....it can be bloody spectacularly good at what it does, which disappoints some folk who think they have this special technique/knowledge gained over many years which gives them an advantage over most photographers. Well...nope. Not anymore. There is a time for spot metering and a time for center weighted metering and there is a time when you have to compensate for strong backlighting. But matrix can handle most tricky lighting situations very, very well.

[the foto fanatic]

An alternative would be to take an incident reading, rather than a reflected reading.

Most hand-held light meters will provide an incident reading if you stand where the subject is and take a reading from the light source. They usually require you to move a dome over the meter first. See if you can borrow one from somebody. If you have an ExpoDisc you can use it over your lens for the same purpose.

This method allows you to read the light falling on the subject rather than the light reflected from the subject - obviously a much more accurate reading in snow conditions.

[Matt. K]

cricketfan
Yep. It's a good system. But anyone who understands how a reflective light meter works will get the same reading when they adjust for tonality. Also, there are times when the incident reading doesn't work that well...for instance...when the light is coming from one side. Matrix metering is not perfect....but it's nearly damned that. It sometimes astounds me when I let the camera do the work in tricky light and it comes through 100%. Technology that works.

[dooda]

I echo the polarizer. Take a couple of shots and use your screen to check it, with either highlight or the other thingy, once you've got the exposure set, you should have no problem for the rest of the day. I never went passed +7, you may need +1, but I got highlights that way.

[darb]

im skiing niseko (japan) in february , 2 weeks

id say polariser, but other than that, ive never had much trouble with metering in snow, either on my d70, 300D, or sony PS ... just keep an eye on histograms and whatnot.

that being said, i actually rarely use a CPL if im doing skiing shots / action shots as it slows things down, and often its of no use ... and often its a gray day on theose magic powder days anyway

lots of snow albums on http://darb.net/ the ones with nice dark skies are obviously polarised.

where you headed?

[glass eye]

hi there darb;

Im headed to Niseko as well in feb.We should chat more.

i was over there last feb for 16 days and the snow was incredible even the canadians were saying that they dont get snow like it in canada.

I have some good shots taken with a rubbish digital but want to nail this D70s before i go back.let me know if you want to chat more and ill send you some shots of what the place looks like.

John

[darb]

ive been feeding myself a constant source of eye candy for the jap snow ... and a snow report from today sounded great ;

New snowfall: 30-40cm
Snow depth: 1.60m upper mountain, 90cm in the village.
Hard to imagine it can get any better than this. Over a foot of fresh powder and clear skies to enjoy it in this morning. The winds have abated and we have the best conditions of the season so far. Much of the sasa grass on the higher slopes has been covered and and off piste areas are providing deep powder turns. Night skiing began last night meaning 12+ hours a day to enjoy all the new snow.





im there jan 28th to feb 12th. Staying Grand Hirafu (got a private apartment) ... hows about you?

Ive not skied proper pow before, i will be squealing like a little excited girl. Heck yes!

share a URL of your photos?

as for the metering, stick to matrix i think and you should be fine ... just do a bit of testing, got a laptop with you? ... check histograms, review screens (not always very reliable to guage, but better than nothing) ... i think biggest problem in japow will be keeping the powder off your camera !

[glass eye]

A foot over night there isnt that bigger a dump cause the powder is that light you just hit the bottom.

We got 60cm over night and boardered risutsu.in the trees it was like 4 foot deep and my board was to small so darb take wide skis with you trust me you will need them.

Make sure you get your immune system up as well cause everyone seems to get the flu as well.

it has been known to snow 4 foot over night there in niseko,ive seen the photo in one of the bars there that proved it,its unbelievable.

i look like heading over on the 15th darb for about 10 days.Was thinking of canada but cant rely on the snow there at the moment where as japan it is really consistant.

ill upload a photo that i put together on photoshop.

Cheers john

[darb]

yeah i think its the 40 cm EVERY NIGHT that makes it so epic

gunna hire fat skis. the pic abovce was taken about a week ago ...

[darb]

15th jan, or feb?

[glass eye]

15th of feb jan is way to cold.check out my pic of mount yotei in the image reviews and the one coming off the peak they arnt the best but will give you an idea.

hey darb why wont my photoshop open up RAW files can you help me out?

[darb]

damn i wanted to go at its coldest! i thought jan and feb were pretty much peak powder / cold months/ im headed there jan 28th to feb 12th

umm im using CS2 with that latest "adobe camera raw" thing instaleld ... try gettin gthe latest version of camera raw for your version, from adobe's site? ... im not much of an expert in it tho.

[glass eye]

Hi Darb;

Well the powder snow is at its best at about minus 5 or 6.At minus 15 it is to cold plus the air is that dry there you cant even feel the cold it is weird.So make sure you take a good thermal and i mean a real good one not cotton but the rash vest material.I sweated more there than here in the oz slopes.

Dont forget it is desert air straight off siberia.What happens is the cold dry air crosses the sea and the sea of japan is very warm and gives off condensation therefore the cold air turns the condensation to snow.It snowed lightly when i was there with no clouds in the sky.I thought i was tripping the place is freaky.

If you want to know more give me a holler.

John

[darb]

how come minus 15 is too cold? i wouldhave thought the colder the better, dryer snow.

[darb]

ps yeh i was going to buy a good icebreaker (merino wool) thermal , plus a polartec fleece jumper ... to go under an outer shell.

[dooda]

When it gets that cold here the wind blows a lot of the powder leaving sheets of ice everywhere. The time to ski is usually between -8 and 0 depending on the place I guess.

[darb]

thats when bottomless leeward slopes are to be hunted yeh?