Bargains section and equipment purchasing

[skippy]

Gary
Although I have not yet read all the posts to this thread, the one that really struck me as being a good idea is to have all of Birddogs transactions hidden from members until they had reached a certain number of posts and timeframe. By not being aware of the financial benefits only genuine D70 users would persist and contribute. After they had reached their posting and time milestone they would then be pleasantly suprised to see those extra benefits that the forum and Birddog provide. In effect this would be creating a 2 tiered membership but it certainly would maintain the quality of the forum.

I like this idea too. Rewards participation without any chance of it being misused because you don't know about it until you're eligible. Only downside I can see is that this would only work for new members. Oh, and we'd have to move this thread into the hidden area...

You'd still need some way of deciding eligibility, so to me the 30 posts plus an image idea would be a useful gauge. The financial side I think would be best covered by the surcharge. Doesn't unfairly target those unable to spare the money because it's directly proportional to the cost of the gear you've decided to buy. If you can't afford it, don't buy it - same reason I don't have a BMW M3

[Kristine]

Heaven forbid if the forum degenerated to the level that DPreview now seems to be sinking to.

Matt

I have to agree with your here. I used to frequent DPreview daily (before D70users of course!), and I too have noticed the change in members attitudes. I now only visit there 1-2 times per week - usually only if I am looking for specific information.

I feel the members on D70users are much more mature and respectful of other members.

Cheers
Kristine

[MCWB]

<snip>

I concur. Actually in addition to making it hidden, I think it mightn't be such a bad idea if talking about the bargains section in other forums was indeed forbidden. Then when the New Members pass whatever requirement we're going to set, they get a nice surprise. Might be difficult to implement though...

I also agree about the "Newbie questions forum". OCAU has what it calls the "Newbie Lounge", where you can ask any serious question without fear or intimidation, and it works very well. It's a bit difficult not to be fearful of asking a 'stupid question' sometimes when you have people of the experience and calibre we do.

Vic: I'm not sure if you were referring to my earlier post, but my mention of "one post every three days" was just the average rate at which you'd have to post if you had to be a member for 90 days and have 30 posts, not a requirement that you had to post at least once every three days.

[Greg B]

Nice quote from Matt there MCWB, really nailed the heart of the concept

[Matt. K]

Greg
Snip? That has some nasty connotations for little baby boys.

[Greg B]

It left me wondering Matt....

[Onyx]

It left me wondering Matt....

Oh no Greg, it's all good. Matt drives a Volvo - he's not compensating for lack of anything.

[MCWB]

It left me wondering Matt....

I really don't know how to take that!

I just used <snip> instead of quoting Matt's whole post again: it's only a few posts up, and had already been quoted above. All in the interests of "forum conciseness", if there is such a word.

[gstark]

OK all, thanx hugely for your active participation in this thread, and your input. It's been most valuable, and I truly appreciate the time and effort that you've all put into this. I value your thoughts more than I can honestly express.

I also appreciate the maturity that you've all displayed in this discussion, and I'm truly happy that we can accept that we all may have different opinions, without any one being wrong or right, just simply differnt, and accepting that this is a normal and reasonable situation.



I've greated a new group, called Members. I've gone through the membership records and added those with more than 30 posts to this group; I've made the bargains section private, so that only members of this group can post.


The basic rules are that you should have at least 30 posts plus an image posted. If you have a history of quality participation, then early membership of the group may be granted, I've done this for a few already.

If I've missed you, my apologies in advance; please apply to join the group; that will generate an email to me and I'll fix the problem.

If you feel you want to join but haven't yet achieve the magic numbers, same deal.

I'm going to use some discretion here; let's see how this works.

Thanx again for your input.

[gstark]

Oops ...

And I've also implemented Glen's (IIRC) suggestion of a beginners questions section here on the forums. I think it's an excellent suggestion, and I hope that it will encourage more of the lurkers into becoming posters.

[Onyx]

I got the email that confirmed I was a member of the usergroup member - thanks Gary, for slaving away on xmas day for us members!

Might I suggest adding a sticky FAQ thread in anticipation of those commonly encountered questions: eg. why no 3FPS, viewfinder dark without battery, can't see LCD image while composing, strange purple glow in top left corner of image for long exposures, etc.

[gstark]

Might I suggest adding a sticky FAQ thread in anticipation of those commonly encountered questions: eg. why no 3FPS, viewfinder dark without battery, can't see LCD image while composing, strange purple glow in top left corner of image for long exposures, etc.

Good suggestion. Would you like to kick it off? I'll make it a sticky as and when.

Perhaps call it something along the lines of "Camera FAQ" ?

[Greg B]

It left me wondering Matt....

I really don't know how to take that!

I just used <snip> instead of quoting Matt's whole post again: it's only a few posts up, and had already been quoted above. All in the interests of "forum conciseness", if there is such a word.

It's all good MCWB, your dedication to forum conciseness is commendable, and I just can't help being a smart arse.

[dciscool]

im really sad that i cant access the bargains section
I was looking forward to buying from birdy
I dunno if i can reach 30 posts in time before i go to hong kong and have enough time for delivery
for january 5th
ahhhh

[fozzie]

Gary,

Thank you for my membership this morning.

As far as items offered for sale by Birddog, I am in favour of a password to the section for members if it can be arranged. Also an annual membership of say $25 per annum. I paid for a siver membership to Nikonians of US$25 in the early part of this year. When I found D70Users.com I have used Nikoinas sparingly and have no intention or renewing.

Cheers,

[dciscool]

whats the point of requiring 1 posted image if i havent even got the camera yet. Im sure many of you purchased because of this forum, and then posted your 1st image, rather than posting 1st

[dooda]

It's sort of true, I would never have been able to post an image had I not already had my D70 (my first digital).

I have one more comment. As an outsider of your country, I find some strange attraction to this unique place. I've never really hunted much, but stumbled here by accident and kept coming back, so as one who probably won't benefit much from the bargains area (though I did try once, Gary led me to some more local deals that made sense). The term "fair" has been used here a few times in with respect to posting images or posting replies, and with all due respect, being fair doesn't really apply. Birdy gives us his most valuable resource: time and profits nothing. If it were fair, than we'd all be paying retail prices rewarding Birdy for his time. The bargains that Birdy offers is a special priviledge that isn't fair to Birdy, but he doesn't seem to mind because he sees this place as something special and worthy of his time. If he decided that each member must qualify with, oh say 200 posts, and 10 pictures, I would have to say that this is perfectly fair, even more than fair as it is only sweat off his back. Buying from Birdy shouldn't be looked at as buying retail. It should be looked at as someone doing us a huge favor. Anyone who thinks that this isn't necessarily fair completely misunderstands where these bargains come from. Thanks, that's all.

I also agree with the newbie FAQ stuff, and if I may say so, I sort of suggested it be hidden (or did someone else suggest that as well?).

[gstark]

whats the point of requiring 1 posted image if i havent even got the camera yet. Im sure many of you purchased because of this forum, and then posted your 1st image, rather than posting 1st

That's actually a very a good pont, and I'll readily admit it's opne I'd not considered. While acknowledging that, I'm also on record as saying "If you have a history of quality participation, then early membership of the group may be granted, I've done this for a few already.".

From that perspective, quality participation here, without having posted an image, would stand a person in good stead and there would be no bar to to full access to the bargains section.

So that begs the question: you only have a half dozen posts at this time; how would you rate your posts thus far in terms of them being a contribution to this community?

[gstark]

Also an annual membership of say $25 per annum. I paid for a siver membership to Nikonians of US$25 in the early part of this year. When I found D70Users.com I have used Nikoinas sparingly and have no intention or renewing

A few points here.

Having membership fees means collecting them, accounting for them, dealing with banks, tax issues, etc ... While I appreciate the gesture, and at some point in the future I may need help in terms of financing the site, I really don't want to go down that path. Not at this time, IAC. I hardly have enough time as it is.

LEt's keep this on the backburner for now.

[gstark]

Onyx,

Great work on the Camera FAQ. Many thanx for kicking that off.

Everyone else, please feel free to add your PP0.02.

[gstark]

whats the point of requiring 1 posted image if i havent even got the camera yet. Im sure many of you purchased because of this forum, and then posted your 1st image, rather than posting 1st

That's actually a very a good pont, and I'll readily admit it's opne I'd not considered. While acknowledging that, I'm also on record as saying "If you have a history of quality participation, then early membership of the group may be granted, I've done this for a few already.".

One other point that I thought I might add; there's no rule that says that your image post needs to be from a D70. Many users here have had other cameras before their D70; for me, the D70 is digital camera #5. Others have come straight from a film background.

I suspect that there's plenty of ways to post an image you've made, even if you don't actually have a D70.

HTH.

[Nnnnsic]

Exactly.

One of the points that Dad (Gary, gstark... take your pic... they're the same to me) and I discussed when this forum started happening was that this become not just an outlet for D70 users but also for photographers in general.

We note that there is a surprising lack of photography communities in Australia and, while this site is obviously not just for Australians, one look in our regional area selection as well as where we're operating in would indicate to most that this site caters heavily for those of us within Australia.

That said, take a look a PICA's site and you'll know exactly what I mean in regards to the lack of quality discussion there seems to be in the photography community of online Australia.

With that in mind, while yes, D70 Users is primarily for people who do use D70's and other Nikon DSLR's, the forum is also for people who use DSLR's in general and film cameras.

Okay, okay... most of us are Nikon users... and there's a strong likelihood that this will stay as a Nikon oriented board for a time to come, but that's not to say it's only intended as a place for D70 users.

So you can post images from your Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Bronica, Hasselblad, etc etc etc... it doesn't have to be digi.

Hell, at one meet I brought with a Bronica.

However, for the competitions, those require the use of a D70 as far as I know at this point.
I'd say you'd be able to use other DSLR's... but I really have no idea... you'd want to check with people who organise them... like MHD.

---

I'm not sure why everyone is always hung up on the idea of money... I like the suggestion I read earlier... I think it was by Glen in regards to a voluntary donation... however that's the only payment idea I've liked thus far... (granted, this isn't my decision).

I'm not sure I agree in the notion of a forum that caters to educating people about their equipment, techniques, etc etc and yet then asks people to pay for it to join. It annoys me, much in the same way as having to pay for tech. support for a product you've just bought, and this happens time and time again...

---

Dciscool,
If you're worried about not being able to reach 30 posts before you go to Hong Kong, we just opened up a section for beginner's questions... I'm sure you have some questions for us or maybe just some info to share or even commenting on others people's images in other threads...
You only joined very recently so be an active member... remember, it's not just limited to 30 posts... if you're an active member and you ask us to let you into it and we agree (we being the admins)... we can grant you that.

I lurk mostly myself... and I'm an admin.

[dooda]

Indeed I sort of thought that an amount of money per the size of the purchase, ie, 5$ for every one hundred is a pretty good idea. that way Birdie can include it in the price of the product and the funds could be used in such a way that he and Gary (whom everyone trusts) deem fit. It is a structure that is already in place so it won't necessarily involve accounting and banking etc. Also, those who benefit financially continue to do so, but those who come here looking for comraderie, tech advice, polite discussion feel in no way inclined to be paying members until they decide that they want to buy something, said purchase won't happen until they participate. However, it seems that as this thread continues, Gary continually rejects payment ideas, so maybe this one will as well. It makes good sense to me.

[endymion]

Gary (and others),

I'm basically a newbie here and the only reason I'm reading this thread is that I got a message barring access when I clicked on the "Lens Lust" thread. I was a little confused as this had not happened before so here I am reading this thread.

In summary, I feel that the 30 post threshold is quite reasonable. I shall now work towards reaching this threshold in a spam-free manner. I'm less convinced regarding the 1 image requirement but only because I'm uncertain in what forum it would go (though I suspect there is a critique forum somewhere). I think though it would be useful that instead of hitting the "Sorry, but only users granted special access can read topics in this forum." message alone that (if possible) a link be included explaining what is going on.

One question though, all of this is being done to protect Birddog, but does he feel the need for this protection? I've not met Birddog or purchased from him (as yet) but feel his generosity is exceptional. I was just wondering how he feels about these criteria.

Finally, I just like to comment on how civil, intelligent and just plain friendly this forum is. Its quite exceptional. Anyone who has been on the internet for more than a month will know just how nasty flame wars can become so it's nice to be somewhere where things are different.

Cheers,

Bruce

[dciscool]

Dear all
Thanks for all the advice
Ive been posting more, and actually I am enjoying it
So I feel 30 posts is probably reasonable
The only other points I'd like to make is that
I hope people dont just post rubbish to get on
I had a look at the member list -
of 254 members, only 54 had >30 posts

ie 1/5th of you members
also i suspect nearly all of those would have a d70 already!

just some constructive thoughts from another point of view
thanks

[Mj]

Boy-oh-boy... spend a day away from the d70 forum and you really have to pedal fast to catch up !!!

On the whole I think some restrictions introduced now may help head off some future issues... as long as we don't prevent new entraints getting involved (and there's already been some discussion on this point) and we do indeed manage to retain the original flavour of the forum and solve the potential problems we are trying to address... then it's all good.

Main point I would make is we should try a few things but be ready to back them out if they aren't working or creating other issues.

Michael.

[Nnnnsic]

Gary (and others),
In summary, I feel that the 30 post threshold is quite reasonable. I shall now work towards reaching this threshold in a spam-free manner. I'm less convinced regarding the 1 image requirement but only because I'm uncertain in what forum it would go (though I suspect there is a critique forum somewhere). I think though it would be useful that instead of hitting the "Sorry, but only users granted special access can read topics in this forum." message alone that (if possible) a link be included explaining what is going on.

Believe it or not, I'm actually with you on this one.
I'm not a big fan of the posting an image option. I think it's too selective and I don't think it's fair to force someone to post an image just to gain access to the forums. Some people in here might not have scanners or older digital cameras and I'm personally not a big fan of forcing someone to ask for a critique on their work.
However, that's something I'll have to discuss with Dad before he leaves... which will have to happen very, very soon. Lol.

I'm going to do some research today in regards to allowing people to see the thread but not post to it. I'm sure there's a way to do it that I'll like as I'd personally like to see the thread included in my development of the site I'm working on.

Endymion,
You are aware that you really have no choice but to reach the 30 mark in a "spam-free manner."

I'm just going to advise people... we won't tolerate spam of any kind nor will we tolerate massive flooding. You'll get a warning, your posts will be deleted, and if you do it again, a straight ban... no questions asked.

I'm not directing this at you, endymion, I'm just responding to something you raised in your message I thought I should re-iterate...

[gstark]

I'm less convinced regarding the 1 image requirement but only because I'm uncertain in what forum it would go (though I suspect there is a critique forum somewhere). I think though it would be useful that instead of hitting the "Sorry, but only users granted special access can read topics in this forum." message alone that (if possible) a link be included explaining what is going on.

Two points here, and thanx for your input.

There is a critique section, but people also post in other sections too. For instance, events (that they have attented), equipment reviews (images made with a certaib lens), and so on. So from that perspective, that's a fairly open field.

The message you see is a default one from the BBS software; I don't know if it's easy to change, because it's a generic message. We just happen to deny access to that section for a particular reason, rather than a generic one, but your point is well made. We'll see if there's some way we can change it.

One question though, all of this is being done to protect Birddog, but does he feel the need for this protection? I've not met Birddog or purchased from him (as yet) but feel his generosity is exceptional. I was just wondering how he feels about these criteria.

It's not to protect Birddog as such, but to ensure that the forum doesn't become a haven for people taking advantage of the great deals he has on offer.

The primary goal is to have a high quality forum, with active members creating a vibrant online photographic community.

And yes, Birddog is a gentleman of the highest order, and from the discussions I've had with him on this - as recently as Friday last - he's in complete agreement with what we're doing.

Finally, I just like to comment on how civil, intelligent and just plain friendly this forum is. Its quite exceptional. Anyone who has been on the internet for more than a month will know just how nasty flame wars can become so it's nice to be somewhere where things are different.

I thank you for this comment, but it's truly a tribute to the people we have here. The members themselves have created this community,and it's their good habits that have created this situation.

[gstark]

Dear all
Thanks for all the advice
Ive been posting more, and actually I am enjoying it
So I feel 30 posts is probably reasonable
The only other points I'd like to make is that
I hope people dont just post rubbish to get on

Interesting comments.

I know that Leigh has already sent you a PM regarding your postings today; one of the criteria that's already been espoused within this thread is that spamming this forum isn't going to be tolerated.

I've already tried to make the point to you - twice - that the absolute number of 30 is less important than the quality of your contributions; hence my direct question to you - unanswered - querying the quality of your 6 contributions here thus far.

So please do not believe that simply posting 30 posts will mean that we grant you membership to the bargains forum; that remains a manual task that Leigh and I will perform, based upon our value judgements of your contributions here.

Also please understand that it's entirely up to Birddog as to whom he decides to deal with; he is under no obligation whatsoever to deal with anyone here, and he will always maintain amd enjoy that right.

[atencati]

Dciscol, Maybe I am Drunk (or not), but as I look next to your name it says you have 31 posts to your credit......

Gary and 4444's, I think it might be intimidating to some and hence a hinderance to the creative process to force someone to post. I know my wife would never be able to post a pic for critique.

A suggestion: Maybe just an original avatar could be a requirement. It takes a litttle time and effort to come up with one and shows the personality of the memner as well as adesire to be a part of the community.

And finally, A HUGE thanks for all your hard work. I hope you both got all your wants for the holidays, and everyone as well. I was working both days and only got to use my new toy (70-200 VR) a small bit but I'll try to post some pics today.

Laters y'all

Andy

[onimod]

I'll preface this by noting I'm a newbie to this forum and a relative D70 newbie too.
I regularly read a number of forums on the net in a few different subject areas.
Managing forums can be a difficult thing; some seem to come and go while others seem to last surprisingly. I think the most important thing is that the tone is never let to drop, and that can be very difficult to manage.
My other question is on how big you wish the forum to get. Managing data is never easy and the more there is...well the more there is.
I'd think from my recent exposure to this forum that access to 'bargains' is one of the current drawcards and I can see from this thread that the dilema is already starting.
While the post limit is probably not perfect, there's probably no other way to manage any form of exclusivity. I think the idea of being able to read, but not post in areas is better than not being able to access areas at all.
In most areas of life I'd promote the idea that people behave much better when they are treated with respect and handed resposibility rather someone taking that resposibility for them. (This is inherently difficult on the internet, of course).

good luck - it's a great place so far

[Marvin]

My thoughts....

Whilst I actually agree with some sort of system in place and I already have greater than 30 posts, I can see how this would be intimidating to beginners, particularly the quality posts and image posting. I felt (and still feel) that I have nothing particularly great to offer seasoned photographers and so don't post often. I will post if I feel I can contribute positively.

Also, the posting of an image is particularly intimidating to me (I have never posted an image anywhere!). I know that it can be greatly beneficial to do this but can't really explain my aprehension.

It doesn't really bother me if I can't access the bargains section (I have ordered from Birddog previously but aren't planning to order anything in the near future). I think my thoughts come from the (quite childish I know!) exclusion mentality - I feel that I am now not considered a valued member unless I post a picture.

I am not trying to have a go at anyone, or the system Gary and Leigh have put in place, just put forward my 2c. I really enjoy this site and have learned a huge amount from it. I find many people's sense of humour on here makes me smile and I hope to continue to enjoy it and perhaps even help out some newbie one day!

(Also, that being said, I am going to have a go at posting a couple of images so perhaps it has been a very good thing for me!)

[gstark]

Andy,

I'm not sure what you mean by "forced to post". We're certainly not forcing anyone to do anything.

But I do believe that it's a fair and reasonable expectation that, for someone to have access to the bargains that are available here, the need to be an active - perhaps quality is a better word - member of this forum.

The requirement for having 30 posts and one pic is really only a guide as to the level of participation needed.

It needs to be made very clear that trying to spam the forum to build up your post count simply will not work. End of story. 20 posts in one day, just for the sake of it, is not quality participation.

That is not meant to be criticism of you or anyone else. It's a simple statement of fact.

OTOH, making just 20 posts, where those 20 posts make a worthwhile contribution to the knowledgebase here, might be enough to gain you access. Again, I think it would be a reasonable expectation that those posts be made over an extended period of time, and it's unlikely to be achieved in just a day. Or three.

[gstark]

Marvin,

Whilst I actually agree with some sort of system in place and I already have greater than 30 posts, I can see how this would be intimidating to beginners, particularly the quality posts and image posting. I felt (and still feel) that I have nothing particularly great to offer seasoned photographers and so don't post often. I will post if I feel I can contribute positively.

Your contributions to date have already been most valuable. Offering opinions, offering critiques, participating in the general discussions and banter that goes on here is all viewed as making one an active member of this community.

There is more to being a member of this community than simply being percieved (byothers) as an expert.

Also, the posting of an image is particularly intimidating to me (I have never posted an image anywhere!). I know that it can be greatly beneficial to do this but can't really explain my aprehension.

I accept, respect, and understand this. We're actually working on a way to try to make that aspect of forum participation less intimidating. Hopefully we'll have something in place - in the beginners section - by mid January.

I am not trying to have a go at anyone, or the system Gary and Leigh have put in place, just put forward my 2c. I really enjoy this site and have learned a huge amount from it. I find many people's sense of humour on here makes me smile and I hope to continue to enjoy it and perhaps even help out some newbie one day!

(Also, that being said, I am going to have a go at posting a couple of images so perhaps it has been a very good thing for me!)

Your point of view is always welcome, and I look forward to seeing what you will post.

[Marvin]

Gary, you are so kind!

I would LOVE a newbie type image posting area. I would really feel much more comfortable posting there. Whilst I know that at this site I won't get shot down in flames with my (very) average pictures, I often look at the pictures on here and think that mine will never look like that. That being said however, I often try to look at the exif and see if I can have a go at that type of picture (I hope that isn't a copywrite problem or anything!). I feel that many people would be much less intimidated if there were a newbie photographer picture posting area. I guess I would feel like I wasn't the only one, even though my brain tells me I am not!

(This is such a girl thing - all my feelings and anxieties coming out. My husband would say just shut up, stop being so stupid and do it!!! )
Marvin

[MCWB]

I'm going to do some research today in regards to allowing people to see the thread but not post to it. I'm sure there's a way to do it that I'll like as I'd personally like to see the thread included in my development of the site I'm working on.

Leigh,

Personally I think going the other way is better, i.e. hide the bargains section, move this there and post a sticky in the Information forum outlining the 'requirements for access'. Specifically don't mention the 30 posts requirement, and leave it arbitrary. This should negate you (and us) having to deal with people spamming, because the requirements are arbitrary. I know you and Gary will delete spam, but there's a spectrum of spam that makes it hard to delete sometimes, and also as this site grows, so will your spam-deleting workload. If you leave the requirements arbitrary then you inhibit the problem to a large extent. Also is there a way to disable the "Recent topics" or at least exclude things in the Bargains section for people who aren't logged in or aren't logged in as a 'Member'?

I'd suggest a sticky in the Information forum should look something like this (feel free to modify as you wish):

Sticky: Restricted access to some forums, PLEASE READ.

Access to certain forums on this board is restricted to members who have made a genuine contribution to this community, in the form of quality participation. What constitutes 'quality participation' is arbitrary, and is at the sole discretion of the administrators of this board. Any threads asking about what constitutes 'quality participation' will be deleted. We hope you will become a valued member of this community!

Marvin: Yes, Nike theory definitely applies here: just do it! Think of how much you'll learn.

[ru32day]

As one of the newbs on this forum, I'd like to express a view, in which I hope I don't offend anyone, particularly all the hard workers that put so much of their time and effort into making this such a wonderful place to spend time.

I'm not clear about what the purpose of restrictions to the bargains section is. If it's to reduce the workload on Birdy or forum administrators, surely this is an admirable goal. Couldn't we also achieve this by spreading the load? I know if there is anything I could do to help (perhaps getting information together into one place etc, anything that needs any sort of administrative assistance etc), I'd be only too happy to assist.

I wonder about the posting or other "achievement" based requirements, because some of the bargains offered relate to, the purchase of the D70 itself and early add on requirements gear (flash, filters etc). Surely people likely to have reached the milestones suggested would already own this range of gear. If at least a basic range of bargains isn't universally available, wouldn't this deprive Poon of a valuable outlet for his wares - esp the basic kit?

Also, from my personal experience, it's when the camera is pretty new that you really want to get hold of the "basic" accessories. It would be pretty hard to serve a waiting period before being able to get these at the great prices offered.

I know we noobs don't necessarily add a lot of knowledge to the mix - although I've contributed what I can since joining.

...and although everyone has been absolutely great to me on this forum, it still takes a bit of courage every time I post (and particularly to post an image - although mine was made a bit easier by the fact that I knew it wasn't a terrific shot to start with and I needed some help).

I understand that I'm still a priviliged guest, rather than a real member of this forum, but I feel that, if I had to meet requirements to access, eg Birdy's specials, some of that special feeling of welcome would have been lost and I mightn't have developed the love for this forum that I have.

On a purely selfish note, I also understand that I've not reached the magic 30 and there are certain lusts that I do want to fulfil! I could just post more, but surely it's quality, rather than quantity that you would want and, as a reader, I feel much more secure reading what I feel are unsolicited posts, than I would reading even legitimate posts that I though might have come from other than a pure motivation to contribute.

As I say, if there were some requirement to pay something back to the forum or its mentors (either in terms of time or money), I would certainly find this easier as a noob to do. I would have no problem with paying a premium for the purchases or helping out in any way I can with the administration of the forum or the bargains.

Perhaps there could be a process of upgrading the type of user you are, so that there were different premiums you were required to pay, depending on status, but you still had access to all bargains etc.

Whatever the solution, I think we need to ensure that this forum never becomes too much for the mentors to manage, because then we'd lose everyting. PS: I love the idea of a sandpit for the noobs

[stubbsy]

Marvin

Like you I'm a newbie. I've had my D70 for less than a month & in total have only been taking photos for 3 years. I have however bitten the bullet & both posted images here and at pixspot.com

My experience doing this is twofold:

- the positive feedback confirms the belief that I'm heading in the right direction (no artist can tell for certain if his/her work is art or drek)
- the negative feedback (if you could call it that) generally comes down to good constructive criticism that you'll learn from.

One other interesting side effect. I'd assumed I was a beginner, end of story, yet in the same post I put one of my first images I used Photoshop to achieve a particular effect. It hadn't occurred to me until then that even a newbie can know stuff others don't. (see http://forum.d70users.com/viewtopic.php?t=1556&highlight=)

Bite the bullet.

[stubbsy]

ru32day

Both you and I have been a member less than a month. You've just hit the 30 posts mark and I'm at 42. I'm surpised just how quickly I got there. Looking at this I'd say the 30 limit is no real barrier to anyone who is willing to participate esp since newbies are likely to post a fair number of "how do I do that" type questions.

Cheers

[ru32day]

Just shows how new I am - couldn't work out how to see how may posts I'd made, so I tried "view your posts" from the index, which showed 21 - now I see it tells you down the L/H side of each post you make.

[MCWB]

I'm not clear about what the purpose of restrictions to the bargains section is.

Not wishing to speak for anyone, but I think one of the main things is so the people don't join up here, grab a bargain, and bugger off never to be heard from again. This has been happening more of late, and does nothing for the community. Birddog has made it clear that he does what he does to support the community, but such 'bargain grabbers' aren't really part of the community at all in the first place. The idea is that access to bargains is a privilege, not a right, and it's a privilege conferred on people who contribute to the community.

[Kristine]

I'm not clear about what the purpose of restrictions to the bargains section is.

Not wishing to speak for anyone, but I think one of the main things is so the people don't join up here, grab a bargain, and bugger off never to be heard from again. This has been happening more of late, and does nothing for the community. Birddog has made it clear that he does what he does to support the community, but such 'bargain grabbers' aren't really part of the community at all in the first place. The idea is that access to bargains is a privilege, not a right, and it's a privilege conferred on people who contribute to the community.

I agree with you totally and I really hope that stuff like this does not happen. I don't think any member has the right to join the forum, make 30 posts and then expect to automatically be given special pricing on a D70.

Although I love the prices that Birddog offers, I have only ever made one order from him (my order did have several items however) and I am still happy to make my purchases via other means. I do not "expect" that I should always make my purchases via Birddog.

Members who do not yet qualify for the special pricing that Birddog offers can always contact Mr Poon via his website and make purchases via him and there are also good prices available via many on-line stores and many professional sellers on eBay.

Cheers
Kristine

[ru32day]

MCWB - I'm glad you put that point of view up. It never crossed my mind that someone would just visit the forum for a bargain then slink off into the unknown again - guess I assumed that anyone who saw the forum would be hooked for good.

[Nnnnsic]

Hence why we stuck that rule in.

Well, one of the reasons anyway.

[gstark]

MCWB - I'm glad you put that point of view up. It never crossed my mind that someone would just visit the forum for a bargain then slink off into the unknown again - guess I assumed that anyone who saw the forum would be hooked for good.

A good assumptiom, but doomed to failure.

MCWB's summed it up well.

[birddog114]

MCWB - I'm glad you put that point of view up. It never crossed my mind that someone would just visit the forum for a bargain then slink off into the unknown again - guess I assumed that anyone who saw the forum would be hooked for good.

A good assumptiom, but doomed to failure.

MCWB's summed it up well.

Gary,
Good to see that you quickly recovered after 14 hours flight, what car you're driving now? AR once again? enjoy yourself.

[gstark]

Birddog,

I'm in the Marriott Courtyard in Laguna Hills, driving a Silver Chevvy Cavalier. AR's are very rare on the ground here, with no imports since the early 90's.

Paid my respects to Fry's; picked up a refurb 802.11b router/firewall for $22. Beats a software firewall any day.

And a baby wireless/optical mouse for $30. I ned to play with its sensitivity a little. Could be fun on the plane though.

[MATT]

Well, don't things change fast while I was on holidays.

Been away a few weeks only very limited access to the forum.

I've tried skimming the this topic, so correct me if I;m wrong , To view the Bargins section you must now have at least 30 postsand have posted an image or apply to be able to view it, consideration will be given by admins to this?
Is there soem membership or something we know need to purchase from Birddog??


I have to agree this is a good idea, when I first stumbled apon the forum was when I was reaserching my purchase (Nikon or Cannon) at that stage there was the 10 post rule. Which after a few days was done.

I would have purchsed a camera anyway and It was a bonus to have Birddogs freindly helping ways on hand to make my purchse trouble free.
This forum is the most friendly laid back place, I am total newb also but have no hesitation asking the stupidest question.

The responses to question is another reason this is such a great place, I am a member of other forums that have started this freindly, but recently have degenerated to not woth visiting.

Merry Xmass to all

MATT

[fozzie]

Gary,

Please no more reports like this as it is making me envious.

Enjoy the ride and the newly acquired toys.

Cheers.

[gstark]

I've tried skimming the this topic, so correct me if I;m wrong , To view the Bargins section you must now have at least 30 postsand have posted an image or apply to be able to view it, consideration will be given by admins to this?

Basically, 30 posts plus an image, but hat's a basic guideline. If your postings are such that you're making a good contribution to the community, then it's a no-brainer.

We just want to avoid getting people coming here simply to take advantage of the bargains - they're very good bargains, but as such, access to them is a privilege that needs to earned.

I've just granted you access.