Which operating System?

[MHD]

Well what do people use?

[Onyx]

MHD, it seems you're a linux user that could possibly offer me some advice -

I've recently thought about taking up a wardriving hobby. A bit of reading around and asking, it seems my best bet is to download a particular linux distro that fits on a bootable CD, that also includes network scanning/logging software. It's apparently self contained and won't disturb Winblows already installed on the HD.

Are you running 'nix exclusively or do you have a dual boot config? Is there any worries of incompatibilty or screw ups sharing two OS'es?

[MHD]

Live CD's are the way to go when trying out distros...
Some flavours include Knopix, gentoo etc...

I use dual boot but barely use my windows partition... The two distros are invisable to each other...

Infact Linux can mount (read) the widows FAT32 filesystem but not vice versa (I use ReiserFS on my linux distro...)

Wardriving eh? I have just gotten wireless... Amazing how many access point there are... I have (Legaly) used many and have just set up my own AP at Uni...

Wireless is awesome!

And yes, the Linux utils, while not as eye pleasing, are very good for sniffing etc... (Kismet)

[gstark]

We've been running wireless at home for something like three years now, I think. We just recently upgraded from .11b to g.

For wardriving, something like NetStumbler might be of use ...

And ftr, most of our services here are hosted on a Redhat 9 Linux server, sitting on a Celeron 1100 box, 512MB, 120GB, running Apache, PHP, Sendmail, SpamAssassin, and Bind.

Secondary services are on a Win XPPro sitting on a Celeron 700, also with 512MB, 60GB. This where my internal mailserver and secondary port forwarding server sits.

I have been thinking of upgrading both boxes in the not too distant future, and in fact I have a AMD 2400XP CPU and MB just sitting around waiting.

Client systems here are mainly XPPro, but we have a couple of Macs lying around as well, not to mention the odd Pocket PC.

[MHD]

My server at home I paid $130 for (a department here at uni was having a sale of its old PC's)

its a 600Mhz PIII with 256mb ram...

I have it running sweet on Gentoo Linux and PHP, Mysql apache etc.. work great..
It runs the Gallery Php scripts... which btw are excellent for photo management!

[Glen]

Hi quick question in the computer guru posting section, I often use the "posts since last visit" button in the top right hand corner. When I read a post, then press back, one in ten times the list comes up and the other nine it comes up "page not available try refresh" (which doesn't help). Does anyone have any ideas or settings I can change?

[gstark]

Glen,

That's probably a local browser issue more than anything else. In an active forum - where stuff is continually updated - I rarely use the "back" functionality, as it's of little practical use, in that it's probably now obsolete data.

[Onyx]

We're gunna have to donate you some new gear Gary - Celerons from two generations ago are working overtime to host all this!

[Greg B]

No Macs! (So far at least)

[beetleboy]

I've been a Mac user since I was knee high. Use PC's at work and I'm still trying to work out where the animosity towards Apple comes from!

[Greg B]

I'm with you BB, don't understand the thing about Macs either. I mean, after all, they are almost like real computers

Greg

[gstark]

I've been a Mac user since I was knee high. Use PC's at work and I'm still trying to work out where the animosity towards Apple comes from!

IME, it comes more from Mac users than from PC users.

As a for instance, Mac users used to (I don't know if this is still the case) refer to the "Intel Inside" sticker as the "warning lable".

My personal view is one of bemusement: Macs have the reputation of being easy to use, but there's a plethora of books telling you how to use them. If they're so "easy to use", why all the books?

To me there's little difference, and while I don't use the Mac all that often (being a 4 yo iMac it's - these days - too slow) the only issue I have is dealing with the absence of the right mouse button.

But finally, there's also the issue of what I see as many Mac users, who simply need to use just the one application. They often seem to consider themselves to be expert computer users and very computer literate. Sadly, nothing could be further from the truth.

I will add that I see very little difference between those people, and those VB screen painters who think they're computer programmers. Until you point there noses into a raw data source.

[sirhc55]

I have been a Mac user since 1986. The only reason for Mac back in those days was the fact that in my profession there were no programs available for the number crunching IBM’s (which is what they were then called).

Of course today it is very different. I never knock Pentium etc users and I find it hard to understand why they tend to knock us Mac users.

Although I like surfing the web and being a member of forums such as this I have used my computer (and digital photograpy) through the years to make a lot of money - my Mac is not a toy it is a means of making my life more comfortable - remember this is a forum for D70 enthusiasts and not knockers.

[Killakoala]

Well i have had the good/bad fortune to have used many operating systems over the years and quite frankly i think they are ALL crap.

Commodore 64 basic was crap but easy to use.
Amiga Dos was not too bad but was still crap.
Apple II system was crap.
MS-Dos was crap but quick.
DR-Dos was better than MS-Dos but was still crap
MacOS reminded me of Amiga-Dos but was still crap but a good attempt.
IBM-OS2 was crap. I'm still not sure what IBM was thinking.
Windows 3.X/95/98/me/2000/xp is crap but widespread. I use it now.
Linux was crap (But a nice try)
Solaris was crap (But good for Geeks)
HP-Basic was crap and caused me nightmares.
HP-UNIX was crap
VAX-VMS was just plain evil and gave me hot-flushes.

Oh and if anyone ever tells me that Ingres is a good SQL interface then i will punch him/her.

My assessment of computer operating systems is that no matter how much effort goes into making an OS 'user-friendly' it is an impossible task.
Today I played with an IPAQ with pocket windows on it and i quite liked it. Maybe this should be the benchmark Microsoft goes for in their next incarnation of Windows. If so then i might be happy with an OS.

Steve
Cynical to the end.
Sorry to be so negative

[MHD]

VAX-VMS was just plain evil and gave me hot-flushes.

OMG! I thought I was the only one who had to use this god awfull OS...
We use if for data capture (it is a backend to an industrial data capture system called CAMAC)...
I hate it with a capital H

[Killakoala]

OMG! I thought I was the only one who had to use this god awfull OS...

We are two of a few.

I spent 36 hours rebuilding a VAX-VMS system after a minor hard drive corruption. It was so convoluted and it drove me half crazy.

It is because of this system that i developed 'Computer-Rage'.

[xerubus]

*nix all the way...

laptop: slackware 10. This is my workstation for PP.
server1: openbsd 3.5. Firewall etc blah blah
server2&3: openbsd 3.5. fileserver, mysql, etc etc blah.

It just depends on what works for you I guess.. as long as it's not m$ based i'm happy... but that's a whole other thread.

cheers

[dciscool]

Mac OS X.3 user here
Id been using pc's since dos 3.1
Dos was a pretty good hobby OS

win 95-98sucked
win 2000-xp were more stable
uninstalling files / registries were a nightmare
every now and then you'd need to reformat


I started using OSX april last yr
Its a very nice OS, stable.
Speed of the G4 is probably a little slow. But a dual G5 would scream with photoshop.

I dont touch windows anymore - too much to troubleshoot.

In the last yr viruses / spyware have been a major problem on the PC
platform. No such thing on osx or linux / unix yet

[mudder]

G'day,
I used VAX-VMS before I learnt DOS, then went to Ultrix (and BSD), using HPux at work... XP(SP2) @ home...

Old cliche "C:\dos, C:\dos\run, run\dos\run"... And another thing! You never see a dos computer say "good command"... ar ar ar... It's been a long day... Bloody work hunted me down on the mobile by 07:00 this moaning whilst out the back of Yarra Glen laying down on my back in an old run-down railway station (taking pics!)... Boxing day morning... Doh! Sigh...

When I read a post, then press back, one in ten times the list comes up and the other nine it comes up "page not available try refresh" (which doesn't help). Does anyone have any ideas or settings I can change?

G'day Glen, If you do use the "back" button it'll probably be just a local refresh on your PC, when that happens try using ^F5 (control-F5) which I thought forced a re-fresh of cache from the web server you're talking to... I'm no computer guru (left Sys Admin 10 years ago)... Worth a try...

Cheers,
Mudder

[brembo]

I've been a long time windows user, and before that, MSDOS.

Started back in the day on an ye ol' IBM XT, then moved to a 286, then a 486 running MSDOS 5, then Windows 3.1/DOS 6.2, then Win95, then 98SE, and now WinXP Pro.

XP Pro is by far the best windows version I've used, but it isn't saying much. I used some old old old macs back in my school days to to D&T on, then they upgraded to iMacs. Biggest peeve with Macs, the single button mouse!@#

Have been looking at getting an old pentium 2 box up and running a flavour of linux, getting it to run Apache, php, mysql, samba etc. But as yet, I've been procrastinating.

All that said, at the end of the day, I've stuck with windows due to familiarity, and the wide range of games, and various programs that can only be had, on windows

EDIT: also used various flavours of *nix while I was at uni, mainly for various assignments.

[MattC]

I use both Windows and Linux.

3 Windows boxes to do desktop stuff and 3 Linux boxes to do server stuff. All is tied together using a mix of wired and unwired (g) networking.

Apple was a contender for desktop duties but lost out on price and lack of availability of preferred software. Debate on the relative merits of each OS is pointless because as Killakoala pointed out, they are all crap. Some are simply more suited to specific tasks than others.

Cheers

Matt

[fozzie]

MHD,

Well what do people use?

I use a 'DELL' PC and run Windows XP/SP2 with a Billion Wireless 'ADSL' Firewall/Router

No problems so far.


Cheers,

[nodabs]

well sitting in arms reach now i have

XP pro SP2 running on my main PC gaming photo and video editing etc

win 2000 adv serv Domain controller, file server, chat server.

Red hat 9 file server, web server linux work station

Smoothwall, router.

netbsd, testbed, will likely replace main server with a BSD flavour.

despite my preffernce for *nix i use XP more than anything and probably 2000 serv next oh well

[beetleboy]

I've been using 2/3/5 button mouses on my Mac's for longer than I can remember needing one!

I'm all for PC's but find it hard to keep up with reputable manufacturers..I've just recently moved back to oz from the UK where DELL was supposedly the spawn of satan, yet here I keep finding that people love 'em! I can't be ar$3d keeping up with it all so prefer to sit back and watch my PC using friends get hacked/adware/spyware bogged down and enjoy the fact that I've never EVER used virus software or any form of firewall on my Mac's and haven't EVER had a problem! This is not an invitation for script kiddies to hunt me down..I'm now on my bro's network which is properly protected - cos he's a geek and I love him for it!

Liam =] PS - this isn't intended as an attack on PC's; each to their own is my motto

[MattC]

Liam,

You are right. Dell's software installs are usually straight from hell. I know, I have owned 5 Dell computers now. Usually it takes them 6 months or longer to get there drivers straightened out. There g wireless drivers for laptops were absolute shockers. Dell Quickset was junk.....
I just renewed my antivirus for another 12 months. $171 for 3 licences. I have never had any malware get past this package. A firewall with program control is a must. Windows firewall is about as good as nothing at all. I also sit behind a hardware firewall, and my wireless network is nailed down tight.

2004 has been a year of firsts for OSX users. First virus, first trojan, first keylogger... Life is changing for OSX users. As Windows users become more security concious and as Mac users increase in numbers, writers of virus/malware will increasingly turn there attention to unprotected Mac systems. As is, OSX probably have enough security vulnerabilities to make an unprotected system an enticing target to hackers who know what they are doing. This is an area where many OSX users probably have been lulled into a false sense of security.
Every system needs at least a decent firewall between them and the Big Bad World of the internet. Windows users need a little more, add a decent AV package and I do not mean the likes of Norton.
I think that if the situation were reversed and Apple had ~90% of the desktop market it would be the Apple users having all of the problems.

I do not wish to start an Apple vs PC debate.

Just my 2c worth

Cheers

Matt

[beetleboy]

I agree with all of your points Matt.

If Apple's were the more popular of platforms they would be more susceptible to the low lives responsible for malware etc.

I have an Apple Tech friend who collects Apple viruses, he keeps them all on a 1.4Mb floppy! I've heard a lot of stories about OSX vulnerabilities but as you say, people seem more interested in attacking the masses of Winblows users out there..poor buggers!!

Liam =]

[MattC]

I have never had any problems with viruses, trojans... I have always run a decent firewall and NOD32 AV. That AV does a very good job of stopping just about everything including malicious code in web pages. Occasionally I get something obscure attached to a download which the AV misses, but that gets grabbed by the firewall. I then clean it out and send it off for analysis. Usually they are pretty benign. My own measures are adequate.

The biggest problem that I have is fixing other peoples machines that do not have even the most rudimentary protection. The local IT people have removed firewalls and AV that I have installed on OP's machines, stating that they are not required. They are hacks with absolutely no IT training. They are probably just trying to keep themselves in business.

I think the days of Apples protection through obscurity are drawing to an end and it is usually the unprotected Windows computers being attacked.

Cheers

Matt

[stubbsy]

Where do I start?

Bought my first computer in 1979 - Tandy TRS-80 - sold it after a week and bought an Apple II+ with 64 megabytes of RAM. Cost $1500 in 1979 dollars - I still remember the price & my salary then was about $10,000 - you do the maths

Moved on to an Apple IIe when it came out then graduated to the first commercially available GUI based PC (a Mac!) in about 1985 -a Mac IIcx (yes I know it's heresy for some to call it a PC). Later I upgraded to a PowerPC Mac then in 1986 my day job writing PC software forced me to stop using the mac and get the first of 4 different Windows boxes (all Dells BTW and I honestly can't fault them for price and build quality) Everybody brings work home don't they?

Now the mac sits in a corner unplugged & unused.

So what's better OSX or Windows XP (never used Linux, so won't dare to comment)? Well as you can see I've been araound. Hmmm...

OSX - easier to install software - you can move programs around & the mac knows (do that on a windows box & the registry is toast). Less viruses but only cos they're a less tempting target due to smaller installed base

XP - more apps, easier to write software on (don't flame me - I know this is subjective but I've been there - I started writing machine code on Apple IIs in 1980 and have been programming ever since. These days I use Visual Studio .NET and yes, it's the first time M$ have got it right in terms of a programming environment). Viruses - yep a problem, but never had one cos I'm careful (keep updated virus defs & both a software & hardware firewall) - touch wood

Conclusion - both OS's are pretty good (no OS can ever be perfect) but that's no suprise since they've regularly stolen from each other (mostly M$ from Apple, but it's a 2 way street).

I think it's horses for courses and I'd recommend the Mac to the less computer literate as it is marginally easier to use and it's more price competitive these days. For power users you can't go past a Windows box - more progs etc & easier to update hardware

Sorry for the long post, but it's an issue dear to my heart since I don't think EITHER Macs or Windows boxes deserve the bashing they get

Cheers

[skippy]

I'm a long time MS user, but trying to convince myself to get into the *nix world cause my work has changed recently and now has links to Solaris. Started with a 386DX40 running MS-DOS5 & Win3.1, upgraded to Win3.11 and WFW3.11, then every MS OS since then except NT Server Enterprise and that silly 98 third edition MS released as WinME. Still remember my first RAM upgrade - cost me $180 to trade in 1MB of RAM (4x256KB SIMMs) and add another 4MB (4 x 1MB SIMMs) to take the machine up to a massive 5MB of memory! Ah, fond memories... Anyone else have trouble justifying the upgrade from a 16 colour to a 256 colour video card?

I've had the occasional dabble with the major Linux distros from RH6, but never got much past installing it. Faced with the newbie question of 'what now?' I chickened out and ran. I attempt to fix this occasionally with a bootable distro, but not having a lot of success. Most recent was Knoppix, but still had the 'what now?' factor...

Proud to say I have a rack in the room I am typing this, with enough PCs to overflow an 8 port switch. Most people think this is a little unusual, but I'm thinking the members of this forum are a little different from most people...

This raises another point though. I have a Compaq ProLiant 2500 (dual PPro 200 w/ 512kb cache, 5x9GB drives, SmartArray 2) and a Compaq ProLiant 800 (dual PPro 200 w/ 256kb cache, 4GB drive) I don't use, and don't particularly want to move to the new house. Anyone have a use for them? They're not worth a lot, but I'd trade em for a macro lens or a reasonable tripod. If I eBayed them I'd be looking for $350 for the 2500 and $100 for the 800. To someone on this forum I'd take glass or legs worth say $300 for the pair. Oh, I have an external enclosure (Storage System F1) for the 2500 too, with 3 x 9GB 1.6" drives, and a spare cpu board with cpus. Negotiable, of course.

[ozimax]

Bought 1st PC in 1989, XT 8mhz with 40 gig HDD amd 4mb ram, have progressed thru approx 10-12 different PC since then, including a short stint on a Mac with os9. Back to Wintel and P4 in 2002. I liked dos but win 9x was hopeless. Win2000 was a definite improvement, Xp reasonable.

Last March bought an iBook G4 and osX, never ever will I touch Windows again, osX is simply outstanding. I never ever thought I would change but I'm very glad I did.

I still run an older XP P4 at home for the kids' games (mac's unix base is not a good game platform), but it's mac, photoshop, iLife and no viruses all the way from now on.

Max

[W00DY]

Last March bought an iBook G4 and osX, never ever will I touch Windows again, osX is simply outstanding. I never ever thought I would change but I'm very glad I did.

My next purchase will be a MAC. My sister in laws father just bought one of those 20'' widescreen HD cinema displays, Hmmmmmmm...

W00DY

[stubbsy]

20'' widescreen HD cinema displays

One thing to be mindful of. Those new Macs with the CPU etc in the screen are way sexy, but way un-upgradable (like how do you upgrade to a bigger widescreen when your screen IS your Mac?)

As an aside, my first computer (if we don't count the TRS-80 I sold after a week) was an Apple II plus in 1979. From there I graduated to an Apple IIe then two successive Macs. Now my Mac sits in the corner unused and unloved. I still think Macs are better. So why does it gather dust? Too expensive to upgrade, less software range, harder to write software for. I wish I could go back

[W00DY]

One thing to be mindful of. Those new Macs with the CPU etc in the screen are way sexy, but way un-upgradable (like how do you upgrade to a bigger widescreen when your screen IS your Mac?)

The display he bought is not a mac as well (he has a G5 connected to it), he purchased just the display seperatly.

[Greg B]

Bought 1st PC in 1989, XT 8mhz with 40 gig HDD amd 4mb ram, .....

Just guessing, but I doubt that you had a 40 gig HDD in 1989

[bwhinnen]

I run a mixture of OS's. Have Win XP on my PC and my Wife's and also the Work Laptop. Run Linux RH9 on my other laptop and RH8 on my home fileserver, used to run Novell a several years back. My webserver runs Solaris 8 for intel, all connected together with a variety of wired, wireless, ADSL and Cable.

It's nice to sit outside on the patio with the wireless

To me an OS is an OS is an OS, all have their flaws (some more than others). Have used and supported pretty much most of them over the years.

Would have liked a Mac for photo manipulation and so forth but could never justify it, plus I couldn't play all my favourite games Now have a PS2 so the PC doesn't get used for games anymore, we'll see what happens in the future.

Cheers
Brett

[bwhinnen]

Bought 1st PC in 1989, XT 8mhz with 40 gig HDD amd 4mb ram, .....

Just guessing, but I doubt that you had a 40 gig HDD in 1989

gig / meg there's only a factor of 1024 difference

[sirhc55]

1985

20Mb HD $3,600
Apple Laserwriter $12,000
MacPlus $5,000

Ye gods things are a lot different now

IMO the reason for more virus, trojans, worms etc on PC’s is due to the major use of these in the business world and of course Microsoft!!!!

Chris

[ozimax]

Sorry Greg, you're right, it was 40MB, and it was HUGE!

Evenyually the day came when I sold almost everything and upgraded to 16MB ram, what a day! My 17 yo son said to me yesterday "Dad, my SE T630 phone is more powerful than your first PC!" MOst probably better than the first 3 or 4 PC's!

I alos run a Airport Extreme Base station, which gives me wireless everywhere, including on the wintel machine, and of course wireless printing on the iBook via USB.

Max

[skyva]

Well apart from macs, I run a few different os's. I use xp pro on my (work owned) Dell D800 laptop, which I use to downlaod images and manipulate in Nikon Capture. It is about a year old, with 512mb and 1.6ghz, but it is still slow to open and save when I convert images from RAW to jpeg.
I have a desktop AMD 2.4ghz 512mb (XP home) which I will use to manipulate images in software in the near future. I am surprised to hear that Nikon recommends 768mb+ for CAPTURE, especially as laptop ram is expensive so I will have to boost the ram in the AMD.
I also have a 600mhz p3 with 256mg ram running fedora 2 with GIMP on board, but I am not sure how well that will go. Any comments would be useful as I would like to use that if possible, given the software is free and constantly updated.
I can highly recommend billion 7500g as a wireless lan adsl router, as with a laptop and a D70 you can watch telly, take photos, and move them around quite quickly, regardless of size.
I see about 9% of respondants use Linux. It might be worthwhile setting up a section for Linux users, given the differences in software for image manipulation. What do people think.
P.S. I am crap at using linux, it is an experiment for me so I am afraid I cannot anser any questions on this topic.

[Kristine]

I use xp pro on my (work owned) Dell D800 laptop, which I use to downlaod images and manipulate in Nikon Capture. It is about a year old, with 512mb and 1.6ghz, but it is still slow to open and save when I convert images from RAW to jpeg.

I run a gig of RAM in my XP based notebook (which is about 8 months old) and I have no problems converting images from RAW to JPEG.

I am surprised to hear that Nikon recommends 768mb+ for CAPTURE, especially as laptop ram is expensive so I will have to boost the ram in the AMD.

Where are you getting your pricing for RAM from?

[ozimax]

My iBook G4 800 with 640MB ram is fairly slow when it comes to Photoshopping, (very slow when converting from RAW, but then again I only use jpeg for speed's sake), mind you it works perfectly, just waiting for a G5 iBook (or Powerbook) to come out and it will be perfect. The current iMac G5 would be great with increased ram but I need the portability of a laptop.

Very interesting posts on this forum IMO, "well done" to whoever set the whole thing up!

Max

[jonnydee]

I'm a new Mac convert here. My Dad has been running Macs for years (he's a graphic designer by trade) and I always used to bag them out, but since getting a Powerbook with OS X, my PCs don't get a look in anymore! Before the Mac, I was a rabid Linux fan, but it just gets used for a file server now - OS X rules, all the flexibility and stability of Unix without the pain of Linux, (plus it's reaaalllll pretty)

[Greg B]

Sorry Greg, you're right, it was 40MB, and it was HUGE!

Evenyually the day came when I sold almost everything and upgraded to 16MB ram, what a day! My 17 yo son said to me yesterday "Dad, my SE T630 phone is more powerful than your first PC!" MOst probably better than the first 3 or 4 PC's!

I alos run a Airport Extreme Base station, which gives me wireless everywhere, including on the wintel machine, and of course wireless printing on the iBook via USB.

Max

Yes Max, how things have changed. I remember getting an extra 8Mb of ram for my 486, taking it to a massive 16 Mb. Oh my, was I the duck's guts!

Actually the old Commodore 64 had 64K of memory, almost unimaginable now, and it did what it did pretty damn well!

[ozimax]

I remember vividly the great moment when I bought a VGA monitor and card to go with my 8mhz XT, and then played F15 Strike Eagle in glorious colour (in DOS of course). Even used the little tinny PC speaker to great effect! Those were the days.

I must say tho', this mac is pretty all the way, I've forgotten what Ctl-Alt-Del means (well, almost - I still run the XP desktop for old times sake, and for Ghost Recon...)

Cheers,

Max

[Kristine]

My iBook G4 800 with 640MB ram is fairly slow when it comes to Photoshopping, (very slow when converting from RAW, but then again I only use jpeg for speed's sake), mind you it works perfectly, just waiting for a G5 iBook (or Powerbook) to come out and it will be perfect. The current iMac G5 would be great with increased ram but I need the portability of a laptop.

Very interesting posts on this forum IMO, "well done" to whoever set the whole thing up!

Max

I'm waiting for the G5 PowerBook as well - if they EVER come out...(no iBook for me - must be PowerBook )

[ozimax]

Me too, but I'm not that rich... !