Two flash photography - portraits etc

[DionM]

I swore blind I wouldn't do another one, but some friends have asked me to shoot their wedding. They've had to advance it forward substantially due to other circumstances (lets say it is to avoid the bride having a noticable bump under her wedding dress), so are a bit strapped for cash and time. They say they will have a proper one next year, but we all know that story so I want to make the best of this situation for them

This will be a bit of a change - last time I shot with my old faithful EOS300 film camera, 28-105 and 380EX. I have a bit more kit this time My main body will be the 20D + 70-200 F2.8 or 17-40 F4 and 580EX onboard; with my EOS300 as backup. Throw in a couple of hundred volts of amassed batteries (flashes, camera, etc), 40GB of portable storage ... you get my drift.

My question is whether this is a good time to think about buying a second 580EX (they're my wife's friends so seize the opportunity for more gear!). I have been thinking about it mainly for macro work but this may give me another push.

I would probably rig it up by having the second 580EX on a tripod off to the side to act as side fill flash with me shooting from the front (thinking the ceremony here) and then for other photos (outdoor/ceremony) possibly not even use it.

However ... I have little time to get ready and I don't want to buy it and then (a) not use it or (b) be unsure of the results. I would not have time to try and fiddle with umbrellas or anything like that ... so questions:

- Will I get any reasonable benefit from this setup for portraits
- Is twin flash in these days of wireless settings and ratios/groups fairly straight forward? I have had nothing to do with flash photograph apart from my 580EX in mostly auto mode with maybe some exp. comp.

[Antsl]

Hi Dion,

My advice to you is not to bother with the second flash unit, instead concentrate on working with available light at a wedding. Unless you are really good with light there is no way you are easily going to get a convincing look out of a two flash set up on the job. Save yourself the stress and guess work ... leanr to use the light thats already there ... your photos will look a lot better!

The best portrait images are illuminated by either available light or Large flash units, the Bowens, Elinchrom type of lights to which reflectors, softboxes and umbrellas can be added to. If you are keen, put your money towards one of those instead!

Hope this is a help,
Ants

[DionM]

Hi Dion,

My advice to you is not to bother with the second flash unit, instead concentrate on working with available light at a wedding. Unless you are really good with light there is no way you are easily going to get a convincing look out of a two flash set up on the job. Save yourself the stress and guess work ... leanr to use the light thats already there ... your photos will look a lot better!

The best portrait images are illuminated by either available light or Large flash units, the Bowens, Elinchrom type of lights to which reflectors, softboxes and umbrellas can be added to. If you are keen, put your money towards one of those instead!

Hope this is a help,
Ants

Ants,

How right you are. I got a bit carried away with new purchase fever. Thanks for the reality check

I know there is no way a pair of 580EXs could substitute for large flash units and you are correct in that I should look to available light and fill-flash at the most. I will find out more information about the venue but hopefully there should be plenty of natural light (I think it is outdoors even).

I don't have any interest in the big flash setup - I would have little other use for it and no experience. Like I said - thinking about the second 580EX for macro photography (my main use).

[NikonUser]

Hehe...

Good try Dion!!

You could always say that you need to take some closeups of the wedding rings and need the second flash for that!!

Paul

[Glen]

Dion, you are aiming too low. Tell your wife it is impossible to do without the the 16mp 1DS MK 11

[DaveB]

- Will I get any reasonable benefit from this setup for portraits
- Is twin flash in these days of wireless settings and ratios/groups fairly straight forward?

I don't think you'll get much value out of the 2nd flash at a wedding unless you have a good assistant who will take your cues and move the flash around (think of them as a remote-controlled flash mount ). But even that requires practice - I think it would be more hassle than it's worth.

Twin flash setup is very straightforward, especially in A:B mode where you just set the ratio between them. Of course, the body of the B(remote) flash needs to see the flash from the main unit, but as long as that comms works then you're good to go.

I would have hesitations about looking at two 580EXs for macro work: I'm currently using a 580EX and a 420EX for this, and you need to be careful to not overpower the subject. With the short flash-to-subject distances the flash doesn't need much power, and if you're not careful it can't quench itself fast enough and all your shots will be "hot". There's a reason why macro flashes such as the MT-24EX (the twin-flash unit which can also act as a wireless master) aren't strong enough to use as general-purpose flashes.
On my big flashes for macro work I have a Westcott soft box on one, and a Lumiquest bouncer on the other, giving me two large and diffused lights (mounted on Wimberley arms). It's a bit bigger and more cumbersome than an MT-24EX! I wouldn't want to use it with a lens shorter than my 180mm macro...

[Antsl]

As a rough suggestion Dion, why not buy a cheap ring flash for yourself instead with the intention being to use it for your macro work. It wouldn't have to be the TTL type, you'll get more out of it if you operate it manually. Just a thought!
Cheers, Ants!

[moz]

My question is whether this is a good time to think about buying a second 580EX

You might get more value from an external battery. Either the cheaper Compact Battery Pack-E2 that just adds 6 more AA's, or one of the more substantial ones that power the flash with 200+V DC. But at the latter price I think better to get a high power flash unit. I have the BP-E2 and it's pretty useful when you're pumping out power over a fair period - sure you need to change 10 batteriers every time but you do it less often and cycle times stay short longer.

Don't be afraid tojust use it as a highlight/fill unit with a bounce attached.

[daniel_r]

Dion,

I've found myself in a very similar position... and I'm contemplating exactly the same issue - to buy a SB-600 to complement the 800 or not...

I'm looking at it from a different angle though - the what if - "what if my SB800 craps out and, and, and..."

This will be a bit of a change - last time I shot with my old faithful EOS300 film camera, 28-105 and 380EX.

Do you still have the 380EX? I don't know much about Canon kit, but will the 380EX work with a 20D? Could be a good backup plan if you main flash decides to shuffle off the mortal coil.

[DionM]

Thanks guys.

Daniel - No I sold the 380EX. It did work with the 20D. In some ways I wish I hadn't sold it; it worked really well and never put a foot wrong. The 580EX has been a bit of a problem child - when it works, I love it. When I get a photo full of white overflash I could throw the damn thing at the nearest Nikon owner

Moz - I have thought about that but its gear for gears sake. I have never run dry on battery power when shooting normally (I only use 2500mAh Ni-Mhs).

Re: Macro work - I have thought about ring flash but just don't use it enough. I would set them up on remote tripods to increase subject distance and use an ST-E2.

[DaveB]

Moz - I have thought about that but its gear for gears sake. I have never run dry on battery power when shooting normally (I only use 2500mAh Ni-Mhs).

Not only does an external power pack provide for more flashes, it also provide faster recharging. I have the CP-E3 which takes 8 AAs, and it recharges my 580EX from a full discharge in 1.4s (instead of 4-ish seconds with a set of fresh AAs in the flash). That can be useful in a wedding environment!

Moz, you don't need to change all the batteries at once. One of the 580EX's custom functions will set it so the flash recharging is done only with the external power (the internal batteries run the control electronics. I do this and haven't noticed a difference in the recharge time vs. using both sets of batteries. The reason I do this is so that when/if the external batteries start to get low I can replace the batteries, but in the meantime take photos with the internal ones (it falls back to that when the external goes offline). Mind you, the external pack hasn't run out on me yet!

Re: Macro work - I have thought about ring flash but just don't use it enough. I would set them up on remote tripods to increase subject distance and use an ST-E2.

Be aware that the ST-E2 can only control A and B groups of flashes. An on-camera (including via an offshoe cord) master flash such as a 550EX or 580EX will be in group A and can control B and C groups. An MR-14EX ring flash has each half of the ring as part of groups A and B (you control the ratios as per normal) and can also control the C group separately (for things like backlighting). The MT-24EX works in the same way.