Useless camera shops - rant alert

[ru32day]

This is in the nature of a rant, so read on only if you've nothing better to do than listen (and perhaps empathize):!:

In a previous post about lens lust, a member asked me if I had a decent camera shop nearby and I replied in the negative.

Until today I had, however, thought that there was one that might be redeemable. No longer.

In Canberra, we have representation from three major camera chains and that's about it. I won't say which three, because I don't want to be sued, but here are my experiences.

The franchisee of one shop is rude and arrogant. So rude and arrogant that at first I thought it might be a racial thing. However, this subject came up at our recent Canberra meet and it turns out all members at the meet had exactly the same experience and we've all vowed never to darken this doorstep again.

The second store charges exorbitant prices (expecting you to hunt around for a better price in an ad so they can then charge you market value without having to do the research themselves). I ordered a (very expensive) filter there in early December and not only has it not arrived, but they were dismissive of my enquiries about it's fate when I did call around two weeks after the order and again a week after that. They've not once called me to explain (or even advise of) the delay. I've now given up. Also, they were quite prepared to sell me a cable release for the D70, even though it can't use one

The third store is the one I thought might be redeemable. Although they too had been prepared to sell me an unusable cable release for the D70 (when I was first purchasing it), they did allow me to return a tripod that I found unsuitable for credit on another.

I ordered a tripod head from them on 19 December, which they said would take a week. When this did not happen, I rang them last week and they said the order should be arriving this week. I rang them today and asked if they could tell me if there was any difficulty obtaining the item. They said they'd simply not received their new year stock and many other orders were also caught up in this problem. I asked when this stock would arrive. They said they were unsure, but it "should" be within another two weeks I politely pressed them for more information, but they were dismissive. I then advised that I was about to place an overseas order for some gear and that, although I'd prefer to purchase this item locally, I was feeling frustrated at having a tripod that was basically unusable, due to lack of a head. I asked if they could find out an expected arrival time so that, if there was a problem, I could source the item overseas. They then said they'd chase up the distributor and hurry the order up. I asked if they could call me and let me know the outcome. They said if there was a problem, they'd give me a ring in another week! At this point I was ready to give up on them, but thought I'd give them one more chance to resolve the situation. I asked them if I could hire a head from them while I was waiting (they have some second hand heads for sale there - not the type I ordered - and it wouldn't have killed them to loan me one). They simply said they don't hire gear and offered no further suggestions. I then asked whether they could call me back today, as I needed to place an order for the item elsewhere if their distributor did not have it in stock. Once again I stressed that I was frustrated at having an unusable tripod. They said they would call me back, but may not have time to phone the distributor today. Forgive me if I can't understand why someone can't fit in time to make one phone call between lunchtime and closing! Of course they didn't call me back. Needless to say, I think I've given them more than enough service recovery opportunities and will just buy the item overseas (at a considerably reduced price) so at least I'm assured of receiving it within ten days (and probably sooner). It's only a Manfrotto head for heavens sake, it's not like I ordered anything exotic! When the item eventually arrives, no doubt they'll be at a loss to understand why I no longer require it and wonder why I didn't contact them to cancel the order.


Rant over.

It's experiences like these that make this forum especially valuable for members like me. Aside from the research we can do ourselves, it's really the best way we can get real advice from people who know what they're talking about and who, as an added bonus, obtain gear for us at great prices and tell us the truth about when it will be available. Once again, thank you.

[Matt. K]

ru32day
I think you are being far too harsh on these outlets. After all...they are just trying to make a living. Now...if you'd like to send me an email I can sell you 10 rolls of black and white film for your D70 real cheap.

[skippy]

That sounded very therapeutic. If it's any consolation I wouldn't have given the third one anywhere near that level of patience. If they're in retail, they should be trying to sell you things, yes? Part of that process involves giving you good service so you find the experience positive and bring your wallet back to them. Retail does not involve sitting there waiting for the customers to come to you out of desperation and out of sheer magnanimity allowing them to convince you to let them buy something.

Doesn't work.

Hopefully when their business folds someone who appreciates the value of service will take over. Not Birddog, he's ours in Sydney!

[stubbsy]

ru32day

Additionally makes you see how trully valuable birddog's excellent service is (although he doesn't have cheaper stuff like Manfrotto's for reason's I fully understand)

[Werewolf]

I can sympathise with you RU32...........the situation down here in Wollongong is equally as bad. Seems that most camera shop owners reserve the right to be rude, ignorant, unhelpful or just plain stupid! I also think that the majority of these people haven't got their heads around digital technology - they just can't keep up.

I rarely venture into a camera shop these days, and I buy all my paper, ink cartridges etc from Harvey Norman, Domayne or Office Supplies. For lenses, filters, memory etc I much prefer to deal with Birdy, and with HK sellers via eBay. Never had an issue.

Some of the online Australian sellers can be problematic, I had a dire experience with a certain Melbourne mob and will not use them again. Very poor customer service.

We can thank our lucky stars that we have Birddog to look after us!

[sirhc55]

I am afraid the 3 S’s (sales, service, standards) has become sh@t, sh@t, sh@t in many Australian retail stores.

Thank god for Birdie and Poon plus fantastic retail stores in other countries such as B&H, Henrys, Adorama etc.

Chris

[christiand]

I can assume who these three stores / retailers are.
However there are also very rare exceptions.
I this case way back in May I was about to purchase a D70 with kit lens I thought. However it actually wasn't a D70 kit, the lens that was supplied with the D70 was an inferior one.
I pointed this out to the sales person who commited to exchange the lens and actually did exchange the whole caboodle for a D70 kit at no extra cost. I thought that was cool.
Besides from that Canberra is banana republic when it comes to decent camera shops.
I therefore very much appreciate what Birddog114 is doing for the D70 community.


Cheers
CD

[Onyx]

Not surprised at the treatment you got ru32day, but it doesn't make it any more right.
You could have kicked up a fuss and return your triopod legs and demand a refund, as they don't serve their advertised function without a head which the shop cannot obtain for you in a timely manner.

[gstark]

It's sad that it's not surprising that you have had to experience these issues.

And unfortunately, it's not likely to get any better either; these people may just as well be selling fridges, such is their knowledge of photography.

[atencati]

ru32,

Sorry I suggested finding a local shop (yes, it was me). You should have bought the cable release then waste their precious time (they are obviously so busy) making them show you how to use it. Then convince them that camera, and their entire stock must be defective!!!!. Oh what fun. Then ask them where the film goes and how to preview the shot you want to take!! As far as your orders, they obviously don;t want your business. Sorry to hear that. I have been using my local shops for trying out gear mostly, I dont really trust them enough t buy from them.

It is sad however, I watch local "PRO" photogs walk in and get treated like royalty. Your issues are not just an Aussie thing, I think it is more of a cultural stigma with photography. I walked into Best Buy the other day and the salesman, knowing I wasn't buying a camera, spent 30 minutes talking about the D70 and knew almost every feature a prospective buyer would need. Since he was so nice I gave him a few extra tips to boost his sales. I see the camear shops as we know them becoming extinct unless they learn to serve customers.

Andy

[Nnnnsic]

I am afraid the 3 S’s (sales, service, standards) has become sh@t, sh@t, sh@t in many Australian retail stores.

You weren't trying to say "shit, shit, shit" were you?
Go on... you're allowed to here.

Nevertheless, I'm going to guess the second store as Fletchers and the third store as Ted's (based on my experiences)...

[gstark]

Andy,

I walked into Best Buy the other day and the salesman, knowing I wasn't buying a camera, spent 30 minutes talking about the D70 and knew almost every feature a prospective buyer would need.

You found a knowledgeable salesperson in a Best Buy store?

Arrest that man!

[Nnnnsic]

Best Buy sells decent hardware?

[fozzie]

ru32day,

Unfortunately what you have experienced, has become normal practice today. That is why I either order through Birddog or go directly myself, and I have never been dissapointed. In most cases delivery to Adelaide within 5 business days with 'Tracking Numbers' from suppliers, so you know axactly what stage your consignmnet is at. Plus with the high value of the Australian Dollar at the moment prices have never been better. Using this process you are still employing Australian's: delivery drivers and postal workers so don't feel bad about it.

Cheers,

[birddog114]

Best Buy sells decent hardware?

Plus a row of sweet as chocolate, pie in the the front counter

[atencati]

Best Buy sells decent hardware?

Plus a row of sweet as chocolate, pie in the the front counter

No no no, Thats Frys with the sweets. I always feel like cattle checking out there.....And yes, Best Buy 'round here sells some ok gear. As well as Comp USA. Bodies, kits, a few lenses like the 7-300, etc. They even sell lowepro. There is no way the high end shops will survuuve if they don't adapt. Can you imagine the prices on a 200-400VR through Best Buy? Might even give Birdy a run for his money.

Andy

[birddog114]

Thanks Andy,
Fry's is a COMMODITY shop as everyone know, but I like it very much, same as Gary, my first stop after landing. CompUSA is next and Best Buy, Costco is also my favourite shopping spot too, I normally bought the bubbly there.
I'm homesick now, very much, wait until June! Hope nothing else will defer my travel.

[bago100]

H'mmmm - three bad camera stores eh? Very believable

Someone might consider and well take the chance and set up a good camera store maybe?

Wish I was living in Canberra - oops - hang on here, WHAT AM I SAYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*sings*

..... Queensland forever ....... Darn - need guitar emoticon (Gary, Leigh?)

Oh well, back to the house painting. See what paint fumes do

Cheers

Graham

[birddog114]

H'mmmm - three bad camera stores eh? Very believable

Someone might consider and well take the chance and set up a good camera store maybe?

Wish I was living in Canberra - oops - hang on here, WHAT AM I SAYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*sings*

..... Queensland forever ....... Darn - need guitar emoticon (Gary, Leigh?)

Oh well, back to the house painting. See what paint fumes do

Cheers

Graham

Bagoo,
Enjoying painting, ask Mrs Bagoo take some pics and post them so we can help you in mixing colour and help you improving your painting skills

[Matt. K]

Bago
Take some D70 shots of your rooms before painting them. Open in PS and use thr replace colour tool to experiment with different colours and get an idea how the rooms will look.
You're welcome!

[gstark]

Bago
Take some D70 shots of your rooms before painting them. Open in PS and use thr replace colour tool to experiment with different colours and get an idea how the rooms will look.
You're welcome!

You could even supplant a brick wall to see how the rooms would look stripped right back.

[Matt. K]

 AAAGGGHHHH!!!!

[atencati]

Thanks Andy,
Fry's is a COMMODITY shop as everyone know, but I like it very much, same as Gary, my first stop after landing. CompUSA is next and Best Buy, Costco is also my favourite shopping spot too, I normally bought the bubbly there.
I'm homesick now, very much, wait until June! Hope nothing else will defer my travel.

Ahhhh...costco. The other place I'm not allowed to go to alone. Speaking of which, do you have Williams Sonoma down there....

Andy

[gstark]

do you have Williams Sonoma down there....

I'd be surprised it too many Aussies knew of it, Andy. I don't think they market actively beyond the NA market.

[onimod]

As an ex-retailer and an ex-Canberran I'm not surprised (1 of the 3 is near the Parkroyal?). I can't say I've found Melbourne a whole lot better. There is 1 guy who works at chaddy Ted's and you can see people queued up to talk to him.....

There's a good store in chinatown LA if anyone's travelling..... I walked in and asked about a memory card, and being a newbie (and not having done my research) I asked directly about the card and threw in the dorothy dixer about lenses. By the time I walked out with the card I knew I had the right card and what lens I wanted next too. They knew full well I was a tourist and wasn't going to buy a lens, but grandfather and grandson were both happy to talk me through half a dozen lenses, pros AND cons of each. It was most refreshing.

[gstark]

There's a good store in chinatown LA if anyone's travelling.....

Funny you should mention that ...

Do you have an address? I'm in Anahiem for the next two nights before heading back to Sydney. and a visit to a real camera store would be nice.

[birddog114]

There's a good store in chinatown LA if anyone's travelling.....

Funny you should mention that ...

Do you have an address? I'm in Anahiem for the next two nights before heading back to Sydney. and a visit to a real camera store would be nice.[/quote

He might talking about Sammy Photo in LA, its store in LA run by their famaly members and it's family business. Right in LA Downtown not in Anaheim

[gstark]

I'll actually be spending Thursday in LA proper.

Maybe.

I'm thinking of lunch at Kanter's (I want to get abused) with a visit to Farmers Market beforehand. Maybe an hour at Venice Beach before return the car to Mr Avis.

WHich is the camera store in Highland Park?

And there's another one on the way out of town on 101 ... on the way towards Ventura? Canoga Hills?

I'll be at The Block this evening; dinner at TuTuTango.

[onimod]

I found the card for the LA store (I think it's the one....)

Kimura PHOTOMART
Cameras and photographic Supplies
316 East Second Street - Los Angeles, CA 90012
Tel. (213)622-3968 - kimuraphoto@earthlink.net

damn - if I knew you were in LA I could have recommended a great hotel in Santa Monica. Did you get up to the Getty for some pics - I spent a day up there learning how to use my camera? It was a sunday and Kimura was the only place open I could get another card from. Not far from the memorial to the first Japanese/American astronaut.

[atencati]

So, back to the original post and using my own advice, I decided to venture out this afternoon to the shop and have a go at teleconoverters. I decided, lets be scientific, so...

I dressed up in my best surf outfit (cold weather mind you) baggy cargos, skate shoes, o'niell sweatshirt, volcom hat; you know, loungin around gear. Brought my kit, but left it in the car as I entered and was immediately greeted by a young sales guy who seemed eager enough. I said I was looking for some Nikon gear and he directly walked to the P+S section. Strike 1. Told him I was looking for a teleconverter for a SLR. Was then taken to the open stock nikon section and shown a nice selection of kenko and tamron TC's. 1.4, 1.7, 2.0 in all sorts of qualities. Strike 2. Said I would prefer somthing new and was shown a sigma 1.4 and he went to answer the phone. Strike 3. I told him I was hoping to get about 400mm and he asumed I was shooting the 70-300. Ok, OK, OK ,enought screwing around finally. I asked if they had anything in a Nikon Tc and he said yes but they are fairly expensive, the are back there on the shelf, in that box, no move to get one. Strike 4. I asked if I might be able to take a few test pics. Store has a policy..blah, blah, blah. Strike 5. So finally I unleashed it. I just said, "bummer, I was reallly hoping to see the differences between the 3 Nikon's on my 70-200VR as I pulled out the D70. I left the bag open so he could take in all my kit. I'm' pretty sure time stood still. Guess what, here comes the manager to personally assist me. What do you know.......

Anyways, thought you would all be interested to know, contrary to Nikons own Website, every magazine and add I've seen, and every other shop in the world, Nikon has stopped producing the 1.4 and 2.0 TC's. Really. "But hey! You're in luck, we happen to have the ONLY TC Nikon still ships, the 1.7 right here!" Imagine that. (Oh yeah, I gave up counting strikes by now) Wow, mind if I take a few test shots? NO PROBLEM, Let us open it up for ya! click, click, click. Nice, not too much fall off, AF a little slower, ok. How much?

----------------------------------------------------> $600.00 US!!! <-------------------------------------------

Holy Shit!!!!!!! Thanks but no thanks.....Expiriment ended....

Oh, hey! What do you guys know about tripod heads???? and we startd again.

Andy

[gstark]

I found the card for the LA store (I think it's the one....)

Kimura PHOTOMART
Cameras and photographic Supplies
316 East Second Street - Los Angeles, CA 90012
Tel. (213)622-3968 - kimuraphoto@earthlink.net

damn - if I knew you were in LA I could have recommended a great hotel in Santa Monica. Did you get up to the Getty for some pics - I spent a day up there learning how to use my camera? It was a sunday and Kimura was the only place open I could get another card from. Not far from the memorial to the first Japanese/American astronaut.

I've never had the pleasure of going to the Getty, but there's lots of other great museums in the area too. My favourite would have to be La Brea. It's the pits. Literally.

As to hotels, having lived for seven years in the US, I have a reasonable "local" knowledge of where to stay, and jusst use my normal resources for this.

Thanx for the reference to Kimura; I'll try to head down there in the next day or two.

[onimod]

I never even made it in to see any of the work on display at the Getty - just spent about 4-5 hrs ouside in the gardens and buildings.
Are you just travelling over there or working?

[Glen]

Andy, $600US!! Birddy could ship you one from here and you would still have about $200US change! I used to beleive everything was cheaper in the US. Maybe you looked like a pro surfer and they were sharing your winnings?

[birddog114]

Andy,
How about: I move back to Sac and run a shop sell photo gears, does that help?

[goodrich62]

Atencati,
Where did you find any kind of Camera store in Northern Cal I'm in Dublin and am surrounded by Shops. But they are all Ritz they seem to sell gear as a sideline now and are more concerned with processing then gear and they seemed to be staffed by High School kids I really dislike that place
Going to San Franciso is a haul If there are any good local ones up by Sacramento I rather go there, my oldest just graduated from UC Davis and is still in the area I can do a visit and hit the store. I am looking at adding some legs and would like to handle the 80-400 VR, the Bigma and the Sigma 80-400 OS, good luck with that at Ritz

[atencati]

Atencati,
Where did you find any kind of Camera store in Northern Cal I'm in Dublin and am surrounded by Shops. But they are all Ritz they seem to sell gear as a sideline now and are more concerned with processing then gear and they seemed to be staffed by High School kids I really dislike that place
Going to San Franciso is a haul If there are any good local ones up by Sacramento I rather go there, my oldest just graduated from UC Davis and is still in the area I can do a visit and hit the store. I am looking at adding some legs and would like to handle the 80-400 VR, the Bigma and the Sigma 80-400 OS, good luck with that at Ritz

You should check out Pardee's Cameras, corner of El Camino and Watt in Sac. They have a huge selection and will let you test anything in the shop (had most of those last I was in there). Avoid Acti*n Camera in Roseville, land of the $600 TC's.
There is also Camera Arts down by Sac State, but the selection isn't quite as large.
As for Ritz, before X-mas my wife called every Ritz in the region looking for any of the following: Sigam 50-500, 80-400, Nikon 80-400, 70-200 and she found between 12 stores--------> 0 <-----------

Andy

[goodrich62]

As for Ritz, before X-mas my wife called every Ritz in the region looking for any of the following: Sigam 50-500, 80-400, Nikon 80-400, 70-200 and she found between 12 stores--------> 0 <-----------

Thanks atencati
I'll check out Pardee's Cameras. Seems you are finding the same thing about Ritz as me
Did you get a TC for your VR, from what I've read the only one that works with VR is the new 1.7 and they don't list the VR 80-400 as a compatable lens. I want to get the 80-400 with a TC but don't know about compatability with the TC and VR

[birddog114]

goodrich62,
TC1.4/1.7 and 2.0 all work well with 70-200VR and 200-400VR.
Those TCs above won't fit and works with the 80-400VR, only Tamron or Kenko TCs will work with 80-400VR

[gstark]

Onimod,

Just travelling. A few days break from Sydney's oppressive humidity, plus a little bit of shopping.

Got my light tent today; need to set it up and see how it all looks.

Goodrich, LA's only a short 4 hour drive from Dublin; maybe you and Andy could rendezvous in Modesto and wander down here tomorrow and have a play with my 80-400.

The only problem with that of course is that I think that I5 is still closed at The Grapevine, making travel through there just a tad difficult.

[Oneputt]

It definately seems to be a camera shop thing. My store (part of quite a large chain here) expects you to shop around for the best price then they will match it. They will only quote full retail until you do.

Well sorry guys if I have to do the leg work why should I give you the oppotunity to match it?

[bago100]

Off the topic I know, but Birdie requested this pic and when Birdie requests something, he will receive without delay!!!



The hole in the ceiling is now fixed and the box lid is now replaced. Ceiling has had two coats and the other side (same size) was finished today.

Windows have been sanded and restained. Tomorrow the first of three varnish coats go on.

Will take another picture soon.

Sorry about the quality of the picture. The lighting is all wrong and ill considered. Blame the paint fumes!

Cheers

Graham PS. The ropes you see are the indoor clothes dryer ropes. Cheap and environmentally friendly

[sirhc55]

Bago - is this your new darkroom or storage room for the many lens you will buy this year?

Chris

[bago100]

Ha Ha - very funny Chris

Actually, I bought a clear plastic container with lid from Woolworths. The container is about the size of a beer carton or perhaps a fraction bigger. It is ideal for all my camera gear and with absorbent gel packets inside, moisture free.

Important in the current humid weather.

[atencati]

Bago nice pic. I especially enjoyed the Brick Walls!!!!!!

A

[birddog114]

I know he's trying to make up that room so he can host Brisbane meet soon with the barbie outside Any Sydney members will drive up for that meet?

[goodrich62]

goodrich62,
TC1.4/1.7 and 2.0 all work well with 70-200VR and 200-400VR.
Those TCs above won't fit and works with the 80-400VR, only Tamron or Kenko TCs will work with 80-400VR

Thanks Birddog
I wonder why that is
I have a Tamron 28-300 and while not comparing that to a 70-200 VR I found I can usually get the stability I need with a monopod and it does not add much wieght to my walks.
What I fond I like shooting the most is wildlife so want some more reach the 70-200 with a 1.4 just gets me back to where I am now at about $500 more then the 80-400 The 200-400 by the time I save for that I will be too old to lift it
So now it looks like a choise between the Bigma and the 80-400 VR. I've fell in love with using a CPL so between that and a TC I worry about the total loss of speed
Any thoughts because now I am very confused

[sirhc55]

Hi goodrich62

I can confirm that the 200-400VR is a monster. I tried Birddogs on my camera and came to the conclusion that I needed major muscle building to even contemplate the use of this lens even though the lens hood is carbon fibre!

Chris