photographing crimes in process

[redline]

what peoples thought on post images depicting people committing a crime on this forum or any forum for that matter?

[phillipb]

There could be some legalities involved, specially if it involves minors or if the case could be going to court.

[gstark]

I'm not really qualified or able to comment about other forums, but I'm wondering to whom this question might be best addressed?



And what is prompting the question ...

[the foto fanatic]

I wouldn't take any photos while I was doing it, if I were you.

[redline]

yeah, there are minors involved. and they're also smoking while commiting these acts.

[MCWB]

Hmm, it's a tricky one. IANAL and TINLA, but I doubt there would be any legal ramifications for you (providing of course that they're not wards of the state and you obtained the pics by lawful means), so it comes down to ethics. If I had pics of underage kids drinking/smoking etc I probably wouldn't post them. The chance is slim, but I don't think 'artistic merit' outweighs the potential disruption to somseone's life.

[Alpha_7]

What about tresspassing, vandalism or skateboardin where prohibited ? Just a thought.

[Manta]

I'm against it.

What purpose would it achieve? Would it mean the perpetrators are apprehended and dealt with accordingly?

I'm not, for ONE MINUTE, proposing that the little darlings be protected or shielded, merely that there is a process for reporting crimes of any nature and hopefully, the local constabulary is adequately resourced to be able to do something about it.

I can't see how photographing them and publicly displaying the images can have any positive outcome. Just my personal opinion.

If the shots were to be used as evidence, that may well be another matter but I would think in that case the public airing of them may rule them inadmissable.

[sirhc55]

I’m with Simon

[Nnnnsic]

I'm not sure about that, Trent.

It's not like we're giving their names away.

If they're doing drugs, how is viewing images of them doing so different from the use of the drugs in a public space?

In fact, if you take a picture of them smoking a joint, how are you to know from the picture the difference between a hand-rolled cigarette and a joint if you're not there to smell it.

[elffinarts]

the ethics of it are highly questionable, but legally, if they have not been charged for said offences, I dont think it would be a huge problem. It isn't until they are charged that it would have severe implications re the subjudicy. This is why the newspapers usually print no pics of child offenders unless the case was very public, and the lawyers we use accept that it is in the public's best interest to know about the case.

Me, I'd stay away from it.


[disclaimer - I am no lawyer - I just deal with them all too daily in the media]

[stubbsy]

I'm basically with Simon. What is the purpose in posting the images? Is it to punish the perpetrators or to demonstrate the skills of the photographer. If it's the latter then *MAYBE* there could be some justification, but if it's the former then no way. And to make it more complicated - is it CERTAIN that the image shows a crime being committed? Photos of that nature go to the police who, via the judicial process, determine if a crime has in fact been committed and then determine a suitable punishment for the perpetrators. Naming and shaming them photographically before they have been determined to be guilty in such a manner would be photographic vigilantism.

[Dug]

It is a matter of depiction, is a crime being committed or just being depicted? Every night on TV we see depictions of the most horrendous crimes. Murder torture kidnap and rape as entertainment, sort of new age roman circuses.

then again every night the news spews forth a diet of Murder torture kidnap and rape as "News".

So I really don't see a major ethical problem of depicting crime as long as none is committed.

I have photographed a shoplifter I chased down the street in Brisbane.

She asked why I was taking her photo I just replied in the unlikely event of you getting away I can show the police

She turned and started running again the cops and security guards turned up and we chased her round the casino it was like something out of a silent movie The cops got her in the end

[Manta]

The cops got her in the end

Nothing worse than the cops getting you in the end.

(Good story Dug!)

[Dug]

I think I have mentioned this before but a female friend was tired of her and her girlfriends being videotaped by a pervert at a nude beach. he would jack off and tape in the bushes.

So they took a video camera and started to tape him he got really upset at the invasion of his privacy and left!

[Dug]

My son was a cop

I think he got a few women in the end!

[Manta]

[oli]

Why not just ring your local police station and ask directly? There are people there who can answer such questions before. I've rung and asked similar questions before. You'll get an answer you can rely on, unlike what you'll get on the Internet.

[xerubus]

what peoples thought on post images depicting people committing a crime on this forum or any forum for that matter?

is it a good pj shot? i.e. not a snapshot, but something with meaning?

are they jueveniles or 'politically sensitive' peoples?

does the shot tell the complete story or leave too much interpretation/descrimination for the viewer?

is there a purpose to the shot or is it a case of 'because i could'?

finally and importantly, are there personal consequences that can result to you or your family?

i'd like to know answers to some of these questions before throwing out my thoughts.

cheers

[Manta]

Why not just ring your local police station and ask directly? There are people there who can answer such questions

I reckon you'll get a different answer from everyone you ask.

You'll get an answer you can rely on...

Until the situation gets political. With respect, the police (up here at least) can't even give you a straight answer as to who has right-of-way on a roundabout.

Back to the topic...

[thaddeus]

The fact that a crime was being committed wouldn't affect my decision one way or the other. I'd be more worried about whether the shot was in focus!

I've got a series of shots on my website of the police helicopter flying under the Sydney Harbour Bridge. I've received a few messages and had one fairly blunt discussion with police over it and have delighted in keeping the images up there.

If the shots were to be used as evidence, that may well be another matter but I would think in that case the public airing of them may rule them inadmissable.

I don't recall anything like that at law school. Why would prior publication affect admissibility?

Photos of that nature go to the police who, via the judicial process, determine if a crime has in fact been committed and then determine a suitable punishment for the perpetrators.

Police don't do that - the court does

[redline]

what peoples thought on post images depicting people committing a crime on this forum or any forum for that matter?

is it a good pj shot? i.e. not a snapshot, but something with meaning?

are they jueveniles or 'politically sensitive' peoples?

does the shot tell the complete story or leave too much interpretation/descrimination for the viewer?

is there a purpose to the shot or is it a case of 'because i could'?

finally and importantly, are there personal consequences that can result to you or your family?

i'd like to know answers to some of these questions before throwing out my thoughts.

cheers

whats a good pj shot?- something that tells a story? kids smoking and vandalism of homes count?

are they jueveniles or 'politically sensitive' peoples? see about ans

does the shot tell the complete story or leave too much interpretation/descrimination for the viewer?
well i thought photo comes with captions to help send the message along,
it not that its ambiguous. but their faces ain't recoginzable in some shots.

finally and importantly, are there personal consequences that can result to you or your family?
maybe,

[xerubus]

I guess my comments and questions are more from a pj perspective rather than an evidence or serveillance pic.

whats a good pj shot?- something that tells a story? kids smoking and vandalism of homes count?

exactly... a good pj shot should reflect a story and cause some form of emotion from the viewer... kids smoking and vandalism may be a good pj shot. A chair in a lonely park could be a good pj shot, as long as it tells a story and gets some form of 'reaction' from the viewer.

are they jueveniles or 'politically sensitive' peoples?

see about ans

? you lost me here. for either of the above perhaps you can blur out faces or distinguishing features if you want to conform and follow the media sheep.

does the shot tell the complete story or leave too much interpretation/descrimination for the viewer?

well i thought photo comes with captions to help send the message along,
it not that its ambiguous. but their faces ain't recoginzable in some shots.

fair enough to caption the shots, but i think it goes back to being a good pj shot.. shouldn't need a caption as the story in the shot should be enough.

finally and importantly, are there personal consequences that can result to you or your family?
maybe,

personally.... i'm very careful to not show shots if it's going to affect my family/friends...

So back to your original question as to people's thoughts on posting images depicting people committing a crime... well.... if your purpose is a pj shot, then make sure there's a story and an emotion to the shot. if it's just a case of playing big brother in some form, well... post away. if it interests people they will respond, if it doesn't they may respond or just pass by.



cheers

[moz]

what peoples thought on post images depicting people committing a crime

I do this all the time, in fact it's a large part of my photographic work. I take photos of activism as a way of communicating and recording it. If you check my site you'll find a lot of photos of squats, underage drinking, use of amplified sound in prohibited areas, all sorts of stuff. My policy is basically that for minor offenses where prosecution is unlikely, I'll freely publish images showing faces. I generally don't use full names though, to make searching harder.

Here's a bunch of about 40 people trespassing in an active logging coupe:
http://www.moz.net.nz/photo/2005/06/14- ... g_1010.php
Or is vandalising private property more your thing?
http://www.moz.net.nz/photo/2003/08/24- ... 12-moz.php

For more serious offences, or where persecution is likely, I will not show faces and I try very, very hard not to get caught if I have those photos. A friend of mine was caught by the plod with a camera full of photos of a crime, and was both stupid enough to hand the camera over voluntarily, and lucky enough to get diversion. The crime there, by the way, was modifying a billboard to say "Villawood: Sydney's center of detention" and add a pic of razor wire across the model's face.

My approach to photographing stuff like that is to use a long lens and a tripod, and stay well away from the perpetrators. That way it's likely that even if they get caught I won't be noticed. For site occupations, often I can get in as media and sell the photos afterwards. It helps to have both a big camera + bag, and be on good terms with the protestors.

[Manta]

If the shots were to be used as evidence, that may well be another matter but I would think in that case the public airing of them may rule them inadmissable.

I don't recall anything like that at law school. Why would prior publication affect admissibility?

Admissability - you're right. Completely not what I meant, though - wrong choice of words on my part. What I meant was could such photos, made public, influence the Court, should the matter go to trial?

[stubbsy]

Photos of that nature go to the police who, via the judicial process, determine if a crime has in fact been committed and then determine a suitable punishment for the perpetrators.

Police don't do that - the court does

Of course Russell, poor wording on my part. That's why I said judicial process.

[Dug]

http://hollabacknyc.blogspot.com/

People being harassed in NY posting mobile phone photos!