Satellite Broadband?

[Marvin]

Hi All,
As we are unable to get any kind of decent internet speed here, and there is no ADSL available in the foreseeable future in my small town, I have been looking at satellite internet.
This seems like a pretty good deal, but am I missing something? Free installation too. Compared to Telstra (over $600 just for installation) it just seems like too good to be true (although I have not been with Telstra for anything for ages, surely they couldn't be THAT much more expensive!).
http://www.bordernet.com.au/au_isat.htm
Can anyone tell me the ins and outs and dos and don'ts of satellite internet?
Thanks,
Lee

[PiroStitch]

How much traffic do you use or are planning to use a month?

Satellite speed seems to be quite good, however if I remember correctly from Telecomms 101 in uni, rain isn't a favourite friend of wireless connections. Then again, it has to rain pretty hard for it to affect it pretty badly.

[Marvin]

At the moment we are on dial up and we use around 500 meg per month on average. I'm sure that would go up if we had faster speed (currently I log on at around 36k). It doesn't rain much up here so I hope that that wouldn't be a factor.
Thanks Pirostitch.

[Killakoala]

There's a government subsidy for people who live in rural areas where cable ADSL is not an option, if you take up a satellite link. I'm not sure exactly how you go about getting it though.

[blinkblink]

I used Bordernet before ADSL came to Romsey. I was quite happy with their service and availablity.

Satalite is better than dial-up for surfing by a long way. It's not much better if you have to do a lot of 2-way traffic like I did.

Go with Telstra if you want poorer service and like paying more for it.

Chris

[MattC]

One way or two way? One way still requires your phone line and associated hassles (if you only have the one line) and costs. Two way costs more.

Are you eligble for a HIBIS subsidy? That is worth it if you can get it. It will knock the normal installation cost right down and supposedly guarantees your charges.

There is a way to get Telstra's attention in terms of ADSL. I am not aware of the exact mechanics. My local ISP handled the whole process. It took a hundred or so people who would commit to broadband. Two years later we finally had the exchange upgraded.

I went through the whole satellite thing last year and there are some good deals out there, although it does appear that the ISP that I planned on using is now gone.

[daniel_r]

Satellite net access is a fairly strange and what can turn out to be expensive (but usually the only) option.

Normal residential satellite broadband is asymmetrical - in other words the upload and download speeds are different. Residential satellite access works by using the satellite for downstream traffic (thats incoming to your computer) and a normal 56kbps modem for upstream (thats data going out on to the net). The 56kbps modem is actually slightly misleading in the fact that an ordinary 56kbps modem only supports 33.6kbps upstream.

So with a basic satellite plan that might mean a 256kbps downstream and 33.6kbps upstream via the modem. A satellite connection may appear to be "always on" as marketed, but will need to dial the modem for it to work (as that's how your page requests etc are going out to the world).

Another important consideration of a satellite connection is latency - for simplicity - the lag time between when you request something to happen and when it appears to do something. Satellite will only ever reach the full 256kbps on large file transfers - it really sucks when you're transferring many many small files due to the underlying transfer protocol negotiations (your computer talking back to the net via the modem). Online gaming will be a thing of dreams still (if you care about that kind of thing).

So... it will be quicker than normal 56k modem when browsing web pages (incoming), noticeably quicker when downloading MB+ files (incoming), but the normal slowness if you were to send a large email (outgoing).

To get around this bottleneck, some ISP's pair satellite connections with ISDN uplinks (replacing the 56k (33.6kbps upstream) modem with a 64kb ISDN modem) instead. This is an additional line rental service above and beyond your fixed line rental fee from helstra or otherwise. ISDN can be thought of as a dedicated high speed line.

Important imformation for iSat subsidy subscribers.
Broadband Connect is an internet subsidy program that requires BorderNET to make available speeds of 256k download and 64k upload. although isat can be connected via a standard modem and phone line, to achieve speeds of 64k and 128k upload available with this service customers are required to change their normal POTS telephone line to an ISDN phone system available from telephone carrier. As ISDN is a telephone system and not a broadband internet product, the costs asscociated are not covered by the Broadband Connect subsidy program.

What they're saying is:
Satellite plan cost + ISDN service cost = monthly cost (but the ISDN component won't be covered under the HiBIS subsidy.

Another important thing to note is that the custom software for the satellite modem is usually only Windows2000/Windows XP.

For your needs, have you considered a 128kbps/64kbps (upstream/downstream) ISDN connection? Might be what you're after if you don't need to go really fast and only use 1 Gb or so of data a month.

You might want to call (and patiently wait) Telstra and get a line check done. If you've got what's called pair gain (where they make more phone lines without installing more wire) to your end point (the house boundary) ISDN won't work from memory.

You can get two way satellite which removes the modem uplink completely, but these connections do not come cheaply (the satellite component is much more advanced and finicky)

[Marvin]

Thanks for the replies guys. Daniel, thanks for the excellent information. I am able to get ISDN but the only providers I can find are Telstra and, again, it's seems to be very expensive. Is there anyone else?

I live in a town of just under 1000 and we have to get 130 households to sign up for broadband, which is most of the town. We need 30 more and I know that the high school students have doorknocked the whole town and can't get them! So... it look like broadband will be a pipe dream!

I should be eligible for the HiBIS subsidy so that would be good. It's a fair bit more expensive to get 2 way satellite so we will probably look at 1 way.

Another option is some wireless people are thinking about sticking one of their things up here, although they are more expensive than the satellite and slower speeds with less download limits.

Not sure how much uploading I will do so I don't know if the 1 way will affect me. I guess photos and email would be the main uploads I do.

I don't do online gaming but I would like to use the webcam to talk to friends overseas. I'm guessing the latency would affect this too??

Would wireless be a better option??

Thanks!
Lee

[radar]

Hi Lee,

have you looked at Internode? They cover a lot of rural SA. The government subsidy also covers their wireless install fee. Have a look at:

http://www.internode.on.net/wireless/dsl/

I use Internode ADSL here in NSW. I've know a lot of the IT guys at Internode for a number of years. They know their stuff and their service is usually top notch. In your case, they may even cover your town, you don't say in your profile where you are based.

cheers,

André

[daniel_r]

I don't do online gaming but I would like to use the webcam to talk to friends overseas. I'm guessing the latency would affect this too??

Yeah, a video chat requires a fairly consistent connection for a stream that doesn't drop frames. It's more the need to hold a steady rate than outright speed. You usually need 256kbps upstream for a useable video chat, 64kbps upstream for a voice chat.

If you're only uploading photos or sending email a 1 way satellite will probably be fine. I'd definitely contact internode though and see what they can do.

I have nothing but good things to say about Internode, they really know their stuff. Their tech staff actually have a clue, and they usually get a new ADSL connection up in about 5 days (definitely up there with the best).

[Marvin]

Hi Andre,
Thanks for the link. Internode is not available in my area - I just had a look (Paringa - I didn't put it in my location because nobody has ever heard of it!).
Cheers,
Lee

[MattC]

Paringa.... Oh grief! I know that area just a little too well.

Cheers PS. I bet that you could get ADSL just across the river

[Big Red]

there is an ADSL demand register here ...
http://www.telstra.com.au/demand/index.cfm

i can't get it and so use ISDN which gives me 128 on two lines ... on dial up i rarely got past 4 due to the crappy corroded copper lines out here.
apparently my pair for the main line change to other lines 6 times in 1/2 a k from the main box on the corner.

[radar]

Marvin,

as I mentioned, Internode does have a strong interest in SA. Agile, a data company of Internode, also have a register for broadband demand. They have proven in the past that they can work with communities, where Telstra would not.

I would encourage you to contact Internode directly and get the ball rolling with them. I think you have a much better chance with them.

Have a look at:
http://cgi.agile.com.au/demand/

And also read their FAQ at:
http://cgi.agile.com.au/demand/faq.html

HTH,

André
(Disclaimer: I do not have any interest in Internode, just a happy customer and I have seen them do good work in rural areas of SA)

[Marvin]

Hi Andre,
Thanks for that. I signed the Aglie register quite a while ago, as did a couple of friends. I will contact internode, that is a good idea.

MattC,
Yes, you can get ADSL just across the river! I am even tempted to move there just to get it. If only I was renting..... I am surprised that anyone besides BigV and Fozzie have ever heard of it though (they have been here).

Thanks all, I'll keep looking. I hate making decisions without knowing anything about it!

[MattC]

I lived in Paringa for a couple of years. I would like to forget the place... It is one of the reasons why I am now in the NT. Bad, bad experience....

I came away from there with the impression that Taswegians might have two heads, but Renmarkians have three. Present company excluded of course

Cheers

[Marvin]

That's not good Matt... Well, I tend to agree a bit. I'm not a local and never will be as I haven't had generations live and die here. Been here for 6 years and will probably do another few and leave when the kids hit high school (my worst nightmare is for the kids to never leave here - like most of the town!). Well, I've just cut myself off from most of the population of this lovely place so I hope that they don't join up!

[MattC]

It appears that you arrived as I left.

It would be a good thing if you left before your kids hit high school. Renmark High is probably one of the worst.... anywhere. The stuff that goes on there... I am sure that you have heard all about it.

Cheers

[jdear]

how are you going for your quest for b.band?

We had satellite for around 3 years at work. Finally ADSL became available and now we hum on that!

One consideration is a decent firewall setup.
B/c the satellite plugs directly into a PCI tuner card in your computer, you may need to stick a linux box between your computer and the satellite, unless you have something like zonealarm (eek!) running.

With ADSL / CABLE you can easily stick a router between the connection and your server / desktop which works nicely, but satellite was not so simple for us.

Yes it did kick out with weather conditions. I couldnt game on the sat connection - it was far too laggy. Video streaming was bareable, but be prepared to view them at low res / small screen.

We had an ISDN uplink and sat down. It was very expensive, and we got stung 11c / mb over 2gb. Which left us with a $450 bill one month due to a korean colleague streaming korean soaps to their workstation!

Installation cost us around $600 from memory. If you already have the hardware and get a third party to install it (most sat companies use someone local anyway) you can save.

We still have the dish, the cabling, and the PCI tuner card, which we dont use. IF you do want to go down the one-way satellite route, Im sure we could work out a deal for our gear. (can give you details of their parts etc... I think most satellite ISP's use the same satellite)

Regards,

Jonathan

[Marvin]

It appears that you arrived as I left.

It would be a good thing if you left before your kids hit high school. Renmark High is probably one of the worst.... anywhere. The stuff that goes on there... I am sure that you have heard all about it.

Cheers

Yes... I am a teacher (not at the high school) and I know exactly what goes on there!

Jonathan,
Thanks for that. I hadn't even considered a decent firewall. That's something I will have to look into.

The plan I am looking at charges 8.8c per meg over 3 gig. I know it can be huge and I wish they had shaped plans but I hope that we would be able to keep track of what we use.

I haven't heard back from any of the people yet so still researching and looking.

Thanks for the replies!

[nat]

...... I am surprised that anyone besides BigV and Fozzie have ever heard of it though (they have been here).

Well Lee, there are more people than you think who know about life at Paringa. 10-15 years ago I worked just out of Paringa picking fruit during uni holidays! Every Friday night we would have dinner at the Paringa pub.

Good luck with the internet connectivity!

cheers,
Nat