28-70 call - issue

[wendellt]

hi everyone

does anyone know of an issue with the 28-70 f2.8
which involves the lens not focussing close to or at infinity

I am using the single focusing point and i have also tested the other focus point methods both in single servo mode and continuous

closer inspectio nalso shows that the camera body wont show the circle focus confirmation icon in the viewfinder when the lens is trying to focus on a distant object that requires near infinity focus range, hence this is confirmation the lens cannot focus at near infinity for distant objects at 28mm

Further to that at 28mm focussing at distant objects the camera will not allow me to take the picture shutter release is jammed
usually the d2x takes a pic regardless if the lens is in focus or not, I have tried single servo mode and continuous the shutter release is not available when the lens fails to focus near infinity at 28mm - really strange

well i just noticed it a couple of months back when i tested usign the lens with landscapes, usually i use it for close range work subjects less than 2 metres away fro me - no probs

the lens can focus at infinity at focal lengths past 28mm jsut not at 28mm

some experienced people tell me this is a stealth issue with this lens and no one really talks about it
i cannot find any literature on the net about this issue

anyone out there with the same lens that can confirm my findings please

thankyou

[birddog114]

Make sure to add this:
You have to disclose, your lens is in perfect condition or not?
and no sign of abuse or damaged on the lens.

[wendellt]

Make sure to add this:
You have to disclose, your lens is in perfect condition or not?
and no sign of abuse or damaged on the lens.

yes birddog i disclose that

I am asking if anyone has the same issue with their new fully working 28-70

[birddog114]

Make sure to add this:
You have to disclose, your lens is in perfect condition or not?
and no sign of abuse or damaged on the lens.

yes birddog i disclose that

I am asking if anyone has the same issue with their new fully working 28-70

No, you haven't said the lens with the crack on its tiny window due to some unknown or unnoticed forces.

And we had this discussion about it on this board not long ago.

[birddog114]

Why don't you just hop in any other photography shop or retailer and ask them let you play with their displayed 28-70?

[wendellt]

regardless of the crack in the window i am asking if there is such a focussing issue and the fact that the camera wont allow me to take the picture seems to be a combined problem

also i had this issue before i got the crack in the window, i just never gave it much thought till now since i amusing the lens more and more at that wider end

[birddog114]

regardless of the crack in the window i am asking if there is such a focussing issue and the fact that the camera wont allow me to take the picture seems to be a combined problem

also i had this issue before i got the crack in the window, i just never gave it much thought till now since i amusing the lens more and more at that wider end

Put in FS section or eBay it, and get another one from Maxwell, so you can abuse them more efficiently.

[stubbsy]

Wendell

I can't comment on the lens, but you say the shutter jams ie you can't take a pic. Are you certain you haven't set the D2x this way - one of the menu options is to only allow you to take a pic when you have a focus lock (pretty neat IMHO - and mine is now set that way).

[stubbsy]

Birdy

To be fair to Wendell, his question is still a valid one to ask - if nothing else it will confirm if there is any relationship between his cracked window and the problem or if it's a more widespread issue with the lens istelf.

Edited to fix typo

[birddog114]

Where's Gary & Leigh?
Did both of you try it on both D2x and Firsty's D200 also explained to Wendell back in March 06 at the mini meet

[wendellt]

Wendell

I can't comment on the lens, but you say the shutter jams ie you can't take a pic. Are you certain you haven't set the D2x this way - one of the menu options is to only allow you to take a pic when you have a focus lock (pretty neat IMHO - and mine is now set that way).

hi Peter

if the focus lock is not working that means the lens has an issue
you would think a expensive lens could get focus at 28mm and hence the shutter will fire

i have tested the lens with this setting on and off and even if i had focus lock off and the camera took a picture at 28mm the image will be out of focus sinc ethe camera can't focus lock

maybe i should of been clearer by saying that the lens/camera can't focus lock at 28mm at distant objects thart require near infinity
or infinity focus

[birddog114]

Birdy

Do be fair to Wendell, his question is still a valid one to ask - if nothing else it will confirm if there is any relationship between his cracked window and the problem or if it's a more widespread issue with the lens istelf.

Stubbsy,
No, I was and am fair with him since he brought it up.
Yes, I did ask him to try out with difference 28-70 on other D2x or setting up or playing around with any other menu, but will he listen? NO

Don't you remember his faulty SB800?

[wendellt]

the issue gary and leigh worked out when they tested was i could not keep my finger on the shutter release half way pressed(focussing) while at 70mm and then sudenly change focal length to 28mm and expect the lens to focus at near infinity

they suggested change focal length then repress shuuter to focus

I did listen

but also you need to give me credit as soon as i did this i had the same issue shuuter jam lens ont focus

also give me more credit

I use this lens extensvely every day for all manners of situatiosn close range far range work etc
it's fair to say i have tested every conceivable combination of technique and i am still running into these problems

so please don't assume i don't know what i am doing

[stubbsy]

Birdy

Do be fair to Wendell, his question is still a valid one to ask - if nothing else it will confirm if there is any relationship between his cracked window and the problem or if it's a more widespread issue with the lens istelf.

Stubbsy,
No, I was and am fair with him since he brought it up.
Yes, I did ask him to try out with difference 28-70 on other D2x or setting up or playing around with any other menu, but will he listen? NO

Don't you remember his faulty SB800?

My apoologies Birdy the "Do" was a typo I meant "To be fair"

[gstark]

My recollection of the issue was that I couldn't see anything wrong with the lens; it seemed to operate fine.

If Wendell has identified some new - finer - parameters under which this problem occurs, I'll be happy to relook at the lens and camera, and retest using those finer parameters to see what I can determine.

[birddog114]

the issue gary and leigh worked out when they tested was i could not keep my finger on the shutter release half way pressed(focussing) while at 70mm and then sudenly change focal length to 28mm and expect the lens to focus at near infinity

they suggested change focal length then repress shuuter to focus

I did listen

but also you need to give me credit as soon as i did this i had the same issue shuuter jam lens ont focus

also give me more credit

I use this lens extensvely every day for all manners of situatiosn close range far range work etc
it's fair to say i have tested every conceivable combination of technique and i am still running into these problems

so please don't assume i don't know what i am doing

As I said to you on this matter more than 200 times from all my replied emails to you same as verbally:

Go to Maxwell and obtain an independent opinion on both lens & camera.
Maxwell does charge for all these services

Also I mentioned: make sure you have to prepare to pay for the bills if there're any charges due to their services or no faults found or fault found due to abuse or mis-handling of the lens.

Otherwise, if they (Supplier & Nikon Service Center) honour the warranty then no charges applied.

[johnd]

Hi all,

I'm interpreting from this thread that people are saying that there are no known generic problems with the 28-70 focus at infinity at 28mm
The fact that one particular example of this lens may have a problem doesn't, IMHO, mean that there is a generic problem.
Am I correct in my interpretation  PS: I don't want to spend $2K+ on a lemon (I've already got a Saab with an air conditioner problem that will cost me more than this lens to get fixed).

PPS: I've convinced myself I don't need an A/C in Tassie (got to have some advantages), but I do need a 28-70

Cheers
John

[PiroStitch]

John...sell the SAAB

[birddog114]

Hi all,

I'm interpreting from this thread that people are saying that there are no known generic problems with the 28-70 focus at infinity at 28mm
The fact that one particular example of this lens may have a problem doesn't, IMHO, mean that there is a generic problem.
Am I correct in my interpretation  PS: I don't want to spend $2K+ on a lemon (I've already got a Saab with an air conditioner problem that will cost me more than this lens to get fixed).

PPS: I've convinced myself I don't need an A/C in Tassie (got to have some advantages), but I do need a 28-70

Cheers
John

John,

Actually, this is the first case of 28-70 which I'm handling after more than 10 shipped to members on this board and 25 shipped to other customers, none of them talk to me about this issue and they use these lenses to earn their living. Perhaps & always there's a bad sample, but I'm not sure.

Limited warranty is covered if there's fault found but not due to other faults caused by mishandling or abuse.

I talked to few people whom I knew, about this issue and asked their opinions: they said they haven't got any experiences with what Wendell has and mainly it was: User's or human error.

Right or wrong, I'm not the one going to hand out the verdict.

Well, need a good test and independent opinion is a good solution.

[glamy]

Wendell,
What distance are you talking about? I just tested mine on the D70 and when focussing on distant objects (30m) at 28 f/2.8, the scale shows near the infinity sign. At 70 f/2.8 it shows a bit more towards infinity. Actually I took one that is blur at 28mm f/2.8 - 1/160 and another one at 1/200, both with subjects around the 12-20m mark. Then, I know my limitations .
Gerard PS: Can't say on the D2X as I am do not have mine yet...

[wendellt]

Wendell,
What distance are you talking about? I just tested mine on the D70 and when focussing on distant objects (30m) at 28 f/2.8, the scale shows near the infinity sign. At 70 f/2.8 it shows a bit more towards infinity. Actually I took one that is blur at 28mm f/2.8 - 1/160 and another one at 1/200, both with subjects around the 12-20m mark. Then, I know my limitations .
Gerard PS: Can't say on the D2X as I am do not have mine yet...

finally proof!

thankyou

although this aint good news

the range at 28mm is about 15 metres it can focus past that the lens cannot focus lock and hence shutter won't release

[glamy]

Wendell,
The D70 lets me take the picture, no problem. I am going to post a picture in a minute.
Gerard

[birddog114]

Wendell,
What distance are you talking about? I just tested mine on the D70 and when focussing on distant objects (30m) at 28 f/2.8, the scale shows near the infinity sign. At 70 f/2.8 it shows a bit more towards infinity. Actually I took one that is blur at 28mm f/2.8 - 1/160 and another one at 1/200, both with subjects around the 12-20m mark. Then, I know my limitations .
Gerard PS: Can't say on the D2X as I am do not have mine yet...

finally proof!

thankyou

although this aint good news

the range at 28mm is about 15 metres it can focus past that the lens cannot focus lock and hence shutter won't release

So, send it back for warranty/ non warranty service as said with you last night.

[glamy]

Image at 1/200

[gstark]

Gerard,

I just tested mine on the D70 and when focussing on distant objects (30m) at 28 f/2.8, the scale shows near the infinity sign. At 70 f/2.8 it shows a bit more towards infinity.

I would classify that as normal and expected behaviour. 30m is not infinity, and changing the focal length of the lens will also have the side effect of changing the effective optical characteristics of the lens, which in turn would/could change the effective focus point.

Fancy that, eh?

Actually I took one that is blur at 28mm f/2.8 - 1/160 and another one at 1/200, both with subjects around the 12-20m mark. Then, I know my limitations .

You're suggesting that this is operator error?

I certainly have been known to get blurry shots regardless of focal length/lens/shutter speed, and when I do, it's usually (always!) due to operator error.

[gstark]

Wendell,
What distance are you talking about? I just tested mine on the D70 and when focussing on distant objects (30m) at 28 f/2.8, the scale shows near the infinity sign. At 70 f/2.8 it shows a bit more towards infinity. Actually I took one that is blur at 28mm f/2.8 - 1/160 and another one at 1/200, both with subjects around the 12-20m mark. Then, I know my limitations .
Gerard PS: Can't say on the D2X as I am do not have mine yet...

finally proof!

Of what, Wendell?

Gerard seems (to me) to be saying that the absence of focus is operator error. What other meaning would you ascribe to his statement "I know my limitations" ?

[wendellt]

o.k gary misunderstood Gerards issue is not the issue i am having
i just jumped the gun

[gstark]

There's no EXIF in Gerard's image, but to me, the focus point seems to be on the section of the fence in the middle of the image.

Presuming that was the approximate focus point, and an aperture setting of f/2.8, this image seems to be fine to me.

Gerard, could we please have EXIF and focus point data?

[glamy]

Gary, you are right about the focus point on the fence. Exposure was 1/200 at f/2.8, exposure mode aperture priority, iso 200, focal length 28mm.
I dare not blame the lens as I do not know enough and the in general I get sharp pictures with this lens, the only thing being I do not shoot much in the 15-20m range. As mentioned I had two blur picture in this afternoon test...
Cheers,
Gerard

[stubbsy]

Wendell

Re: The can't take a pic (shutter is locked). Please check CSM menu a2 (AF-S mode priority) is it set to Focus or to Release. If it is set to Focus then you CANNOT take a shot if you haven't achieved focus. That's why I say this may be related to your shutter lock comment (If you are in AF-C mode CSM a1 applies and again setting this to Focus means you cannot take a pic till you have focus lock).

[glamy]

Is it camera shake?

1/160 at f/2.8, 28mm.
Gerard

[wendellt]

the lens at f2.8 isn't it's sharpest stop it down to f4 and see what that does
the slight blur could be caused by shake even at 1/200

[gstark]

In the second image, I'm still not seeing anything untoward.

The focus point seems to be the shrubbery just to the left of but beyond the table in the centre of the image, or perhaps - in the same plane - the furthermost stair railing beyond the table.

At f/2.8 you have shallow DoF, and thus the shrubbery in the foreground and the background may well be rendered out of focus; this is normal and correct behaviour.

And as Wendell points out, at f/2.8 you are also not in the lens's sweet spot, so results may be less than optimal for the lens.

[glamy]

I misread Wendell's first post, I thought he had problems at f/2.8. I normally use this lens at 5/6, but even at f/2.8 on close subjects it is very sharp. I can post one pic if you'd like.
Cheers,
Gerard.

[birddog114]

I misread Wendell's first post, I thought he had problems at f/2.8. I normally use this lens at 5/6, but even at f/2.8 on close subjects it is very sharp. I can post one pic if you'd like.
Cheers,
Gerard.

Can I say something?
Bring your lens here on Saturday and we test it for you.
Yes, will be on the D2x and D70 or D200.

and/or on a Canon 5D/ 350D

[stubbsy]

I sure hope there is a 28-70 there on Saturday since I want to have a good play with one on my D2x.

[birddog114]

I sure hope there is a 28-70 there on Saturday since I want to have a good play with one on my D2x.

You should order one and have it by tomorrow.
Some stuffs arrived today as SB800, 600, 600/ f.4, 300VR etc....

And a tomorrow 80-400Vr for Oscar, 10.5FE for Rob, my finger crossed.

[stubbsy]

Not sure I want one yet Birdy

[birddog114]

Not sure I want one yet Birdy

Get over it and live with your 24-120VR

[glamy]

I am working on Saturday. As I say, I get sharp pictures at f/2.8 as well as other apertures, but never really looked into the issue raised by Wendell. Here is one at 28mm wide-open

Gerard

[Steffen]

I sure hope there is a 28-70 there on Saturday since I want to have a good play with one on my D2x.

You should order one and have it by tomorrow.
Some stuffs arrived today as SB800, 600, 600/ f.4, 300VR etc....

And a tomorrow 80-400Vr for Oscar, 10.5FE for Rob, my finger crossed.

Any slingshots?

Cheers
Steffen.

[Steffen]

Wendell,
I have an AF 85mm f/1.8 that occasionally won't focus at infinity on my D2H. Racking the focus back and forth usually fixes that. I also have an AiS 24mm f/2.8 that frequently won't focus at infinity. Since it is a manual focus lens I don't care - no shutter jam there

All my other lenses are fine.

If you bump your camera around a lot the bayonet can get bent, the mirror and AF sensor might get dislocated slightly, etc. All of this will affect focus. Normally, this would mean slightly out-of-focus images, which is almost always undetectable (but measurable). At infinity, there is a hard stop on wide to short tele lenses, and if you would need to focus a tad further than the lens can go you suddenly realise the problem. Longer teles can focus past infinity to compensate for thermal expansion and the like...

That said, I don't think this (the camera) is your problem. Since you get the issue at the wide end only (one would expect it to be more pronounced at the long end) it is probably a lens mis-alignment problem. They are surprisingly common even among expensive lenses. If the lens isn't par-focal (or whatever you call that with photographic lenses), i.e. keeps focus throughout the zoom range than that's probably another (different) alignment issue, although it could be by (cheap-skate) design.

I'd have it checked.

Cheers
Steffen.

[birddog114]

Wendell,
I have an AF 85mm f/1.8 that occasionally won't focus at infinity on my D2H. Racking the focus back and forth usually fixes that. I also have an AiS 24mm f/2.8 that frequently won't focus at infinity. Since it is a manual focus lens I don't care - no shutter jam there

All my other lenses are fine.

If you bump your camera around a lot the bayonet can get bent, the mirror and AF sensor might get dislocated slightly, etc. All of this will affect focus. Normally, this would mean slightly out-of-focus images, which is almost always undetectable (but measurable). At infinity, there is a hard stop on wide to short tele lenses, and if you would need to focus a tad further than the lens can go you suddenly realise the problem. Longer teles can focus past infinity to compensate for thermal expansion and the like...

That said, I don't think this (the camera) is your problem. Since you get the issue at the wide end only (one would expect it to be more pronounced at the long end) it is probably a lens mis-alignment problem. They are surprisingly common even among expensive lenses. If the lens isn't par-focal (or whatever you call that with photographic lenses), i.e. keeps focus throughout the zoom range than that's probably another (different) alignment issue, although it could be by (cheap-skate) design.

I'd have it checked.

Cheers
Steffen.

Steffen,
I explained it to him, mis-alignment is in most the cases I've seen so far in many other cases, re-calibration is required not only the lens but have to be both lens and camera.
With me, I don't panic or undervalued the lens or camera (told him that), hard working gears are always required maintenance and service same as your car, especially when you bumped your gears alot during your working hours:wink: