Question of sharpening

[Alex]

Normally when I do pping in PS CS, I leave sharpening till last. Before I save my high-res master file, I do ‘save for web’ and choose ‘bicubic sharper’ and that is all I normally do for sharpening of my web photos. Then once I get that out of the way, I sharpen the high-res. file using various USM settings. My question is, Is ‘bicubic sharper’ OK to use instead of USM for web images? I assume it is better since it takes your files size into account. Or should I sharpen the high res. file first then go to ‘save for web’ and sharpen in the ‘save for web’ dialogue again?

Thanks for your help

Alex

[Finch]

Alex,

I always sharpen high res files first (capture sharpening) then save-for-web after file has been resized and reduced (output sharpening).

Hope this helps

Cheers

Michael

[NikonUser]

I'm with Finch

As part of my initial post processing I do a mild sharpen (capture sharpening) to bring out details and offset any blur that happens when converting from analouge to digital in the camera

After resizing for the web (I don't use 'save for web...') I then sharpen as nessessary

I don't do any extra sharpening on the original... This leaves me able to sharpen if/when I decide what I'm going to do with it (eg print, make into a full screen slideshow etc.... they all require different levels of sharpening)

That's just my two cents. There are probably as many different opinions on this as there are photographers.

Paul

[Yi-P]

I keep two copies of original JPEGs

One for backup and one for messing around in photoshop...

I do all the processing at high res, then reduce the size step by step in increments of 20% size reduction with bicubic sharpening, and I'd say results turn out better when it hits web sized image. And just save it at jpeg on medium quality to post it on web...

[MattC]

Alex,

'Bicubic sharper' is the method of resampling. I think that the name is deceptive.

Web images, IMO, benefit from USM.

I do not resize or sharpen my "master" copy. I use that master and "save as" to generate files for different uses. I do not use "save for web" - instead I convert to sRGB and 8 bit then "save as" and select jpeg from the drop down.

The workflow becomes:
1. Save master.
2. Resize using preferred method.
3. Sharpen - I generally sharpen the lightness layer in LAB using an action setup to prompt at the USM step. I also sharpen in a seperate layer so that I can selectively reduce sharpening using a brush... I do not sharpen OOF areas.
4. Flatten image, convert back to RGB, and then to sRGB.
5. Convert to 8 bit.
6. Save as jpeg.....

There are two actions in this - the second action starts at step 4.

Cheers

[sirhc55]

To use the full potential of Photoshop camera images should be shot in RAW and not jpeg. The amount of Photoshop work that can be done on a jpeg image is very limited.

The RAW image can be kept as a ’negative’. I open RAW images through ACR and then save as a TIF - the file that I work on in Photoshop. All colour manipulation, curves, contrast etc are adjusted and finally apply Smart Sharpening, if necessary.

Resizing for web use is simple - in Photoshop go to image - image size, and then resize the image to whatever your web hosting service requires. In my case the longest side is resized to 800 pixels but I maintain the 240/300dpi. This is all performed on the TIF image. I then do a ’save as’ and write a jpeg with a compression factor of 10.

Saving for the web with the ’save for web’ function is a no-no as all EXIF data is stripped. I do not resharpen images when in jpeg format as my host (Smugmug)‚ applies a sharpening algorithym when the file is uploaded. I also go against convention in that all of my images are Adobe RGB - I never change them for web use to sRGB.

So, the criteria is shoot RAW for full Photoshop potential, and resize using the image - image size command.

[Alex]

Thanks, guys. I think I will now do sharpening on high res before output sharpening on 'for web' jpg. I notice when I save for web with bicubic sharper, it always gives a much sharper result, but now I will do a normal USM before the output sharpening for web, that way I will have two stages.

What about in capture, you do it on the raw file? What settings do you normally used there, similar to photoshop's USM?

Alex

[Alex]

To use the full potential of Photoshop camera images should be shot in RAW and not jpeg. The amount of Photoshop work that can be done on a jpeg image is very limited.

The RAW image can be kept as a ’negative’. I open RAW images through ACR and then save as a TIF - the file that I work on in Photoshop. All colour manipulation, curves, contrast etc are adjusted and finally apply Smart Sharpening, if necessary.

Resizing for web use is simple - in Photoshop go to image - image size, and then resize the image to whatever your web hosting service requires. In my case the longest side is resized to 800 pixels but I maintain the 240/300dpi. This is all performed on the TIF image. I then do a ’save as’ and write a jpeg with a compression factor of 10.

Saving for the web with the ’save for web’ function is a no-no as all EXIF data is stripped. I do not resharpen images when in jpeg format as my host (Smugmug)‚ applies a sharpening algorithym when the file is uploaded. I also go against convention in that all of my images are Adobe RGB - I never change them for web use to sRGB.

So, the criteria is shoot RAW for full Photoshop potential, and resize using the image - image size command.

Thanks, Chris. I always work on TIFF in PS after raw conversion with NC. I use 'save for web' as I am not worried about EXIF info.

Alex

[MattC]

... then reduce the size step by step in increments of 20% size reduction with bicubic sharpening...

YiP,

This is unecessary since PS v7 (or was it v8?), as the resampling has been vastly improved since earlier versions.

Cheers

[Alex]

Alex,

'Bicubic sharper' is the method of resampling. I think that the name is deceptive.

Web images, IMO, benefit from USM.

I do not resize or sharpen my "master" copy. I use that master and "save as" to generate files for different uses. I do not use "save for web" - instead I convert to sRGB and 8 bit then "save as" and select jpeg from the drop down.

The workflow becomes:
1. Save master.
2. Resize using preferred method.
3. Sharpen - I generally sharpen the lightness layer in LAB using an action setup to prompt at the USM step. I also sharpen in a seperate layer so that I can selectively reduce sharpening using a brush... I do not sharpen OOF areas.
4. Flatten image, convert back to RGB, and then to sRGB.
5. Convert to 8 bit.
6. Save as jpeg.....

There are two actions in this - the second action starts at step 4.

Cheers

Thanks, Matt.

I also do USM of the high-res. on the Lightness channel only. For the web images do 'save for web, bicubic sharper'. For some reason, I noticed when I do 'bicubic sharper', web images always turn out better than just usm.

Alex

[Alex]

Alex,

I always sharpen high res files first (capture sharpening) then save-for-web after file has been resized and reduced (output sharpening).

Hope this helps

Cheers

Michael

Michael and Paul, what USM settings do you use in NC?

Thanks
Alex

[NikonUser]

I usually do the capture sharpening after importing into photoshop.

That way I can do any noise reduction (if needed) first.

The amount I use totally depends on the image and I ususally do it in LAB colour mode.

Paul

[Alex]

Does anyone use 'save for web' option at all or everyone uses normal re-size followed by some USM?

Thanks
Alex

[Alex]

Thank you all for your help. I've got an updated workflow worked out in my head.

I will not use 'save for web' option anymore or sharpent the master TIFF or high res. JPG file.

Instead, I will generate master TIFF or JPG and separately sharpen for web, printing, etc.

Does anyone use 'save-for-web' function at all or is it just me?

Alex

[NikonUser]

I can't remember where ... but I have read in many places that 'save for web' should be avoided like the plauge.

Paul

[stubbsy]

Save For Web strips all the EXIF data for starters.

[Alex]

Thanks, guys. Resize and save it is then . I will save as jpg compression 10, but I wonder what resolution I should use to avoid excessively big file sizes. I know many people use 72 ppi. Is it the standard?

Alex

[Finch]

Alex,

I wanted to address any confusion re. save-for-web (as I mentioned in reply to your question earlier on). I NEVER use save-for-web in Photoshop. Once I am about to post a pic on web and it has been resized, changed to 8-bit and saved as a jpeg, I use the output sharpener in Photokit Sharpener.

Cheers

Michael

[MattC]

Colour profiles are also stripped.

The lack of EXIF and profiles is not really a big issue in itself for displaying on the web, but if an image is posted in a forum with a request for help (or even critique), then it really should have the EXIF and profiles embedded so that others can at least get some idea of what is going on.

Also, when I look at an image, I usually drag it out of Firefox onto a desktop icon of a colour space aware program (usually PS) - a nice way of doing things without actually saving the image to disk. On a properly calibrated monitor there can be subtle differences between colour space aware programs and those that are not, even when the image is sRGB. In those cases it is nice to have profiles attached so that I do not have to guess or assume.

Cheers

[Alex]

Thanks for clarifying Matt and Michael.

Cheers
Alex

[MattC]

Thanks, guys. Resize and save it is then . I will save as jpg compression 10, but I wonder what resolution I should use to avoid excessively big file sizes. I know many people use 72 ppi. Is it the standard?

72ppi??

Forget that. Think in terms of pixels. ie dimensions. 800 pixels on the long side is plenty. 400 to 600 is good. As far as compression goes, I will baulk at anything more than 200kB. It is easy enough to get decent image quality in the 70kB to 130kB range for web use. That does not necessarily mean locking yourself into a compression setting of 10 - use what is needed.

Cheers

[MattC]

I should have added that dpi are really only valid for sizing output for printing.

Cheers

[sirhc55]

That does not necessarily mean locking yourself into a compression setting of 10 - use what is needed.

Cheers

This is the Smugmug compression but you are right if self hosting

[Alex]

That does not necessarily mean locking yourself into a compression setting of 10 - use what is needed.

Cheers

This is the Smugmug compression but you are right if self hosting

Thanks
Alex

[Yi-P]

... then reduce the size step by step in increments of 20% size reduction with bicubic sharpening...

YiP,

This is unecessary since PS v7 (or was it v8?), as the resampling has been vastly improved since earlier versions.

Cheers

Prolly its the paranoid thing from starting using photoshop since PS v5...

But I have this action that I created that goes for one single click... phew* i knew i was doing much, but it still doing less clicks and typing than normal resizes...