portable lighting solution?

[spartikus]

G'day team, I've been rather silent lately due to impending death (i.e. exams and recitals), but I'm still managing to find time to buy stuff!

Anyway, as a recent purchaser of an SB800, I'm very interesting in investing in some gear to create a sort of portable lighting studio setup for portraits and other general people photography. I've been poking around on the net and have come to the conclusion that I need some sort of light stand, an umbrella to shoot into/through and some sort of clamp or swivel head to attach the umbrella and flash unit to the stand. I've come up with the following options..

<a href="http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/cache/offonce/pid/1965?livid=2&lsf=2&child=4">Manfrotto 001 "Nano" Stand</a> - I figure this should be tall enough and sturdy enough for the flash and umbrella to hang off.
<a href="http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/cache/offonce/pid/2718?livid=53&lsf=53&child=1">Manfrotto 035 Super Clamp</a> - For clamping the flash to something other than the stand, like a bookshelf or door or something if the stand isn't suitable.
V-Tec Reversable Silver/White Umbrella (43") - I don't have a direct link for this one, but it's available from Vanbar.

I guess my questions are as follows: has anyone had any experience with this sort of thing, and am I on the right track? I also don't have a viable way of connecting the flash head and the umbrella to the stand - I could possibly use the clamp, but I'd rather have some sort of swivelling head.. Also, is an umbrella of that size the way to go, or would I be better off with some sort of softbox?

All ideas, comments and criticism would be greatly appreciated

[spartikus]

31 views and no ideas? C'mon guys, help a fella out!

[Zeeke]

Ok, Ill bite, ive been looking at something similar aswell.. dunno why... I can never afford anything.. but this is one of the items i found along the way at B&H Photo

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/control ... Navigation

Looks good i think

Tim

[beetleboy]

Easy..

Go read the Strobist blog.

Start at Lighting 101.

Sorted!

[spartikus]

thanks for the link, information overload!

[big pix]

You will find that your sb800 lacks power when using an umbrella to bounce your light. Maybe fine for single portraits, but lack of power also means lack of Depth of Field, higher ISO will start to bring in other problems as digital noise, it will be hard to hold focus on a group of people so everyone is sharp.

There are small, studio style flash heads, that can do the job very well, a number of different brands........ but expensive

Metz CT60 flash has more power than the sb800 and these 2 could be used together for studio style lighting that is portable, along with stands and umbrellas

[beetleboy]

big pix..

I suggest you also check out the website linked above..you may be surprised!

I've used my SB800 in a brolly to shoot loads of commercial shots for brochure's etc and every time I get back to the studio from a location I always get the same reaction from the principal photoagrapher (A Master of Photog and veteran in the industry) - wow, nice light..but I didn't see you leave with the bowens kit?! He he!

Granted there is definitely a place for that kind of lighting but I find it much easier to be efficient with only a small lighting setup - no cables, no power..it's easy!

Liam =]

[phillipb]

I bought one of these just for fun. Does the job.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... %3AIT&rd=1

[MATT]

Phillip, could you post ssoome pics of it setup , and the results???

Cheers
MATT

[gstark]

Liam,

Shooting products gives you far greater lattitude wrt exposure choices than does shooting live subjects.

Often you can move your lighting sources much closer to your subjects than is possible with a live model, and thus you have a greater range of power selections available on your lighting sources than might be the case when the lights are further removed from your subjects, and thereby the available power is reduced.

That said, let's try to address Spartikus's original questions.

First of all, Bernie's observations regarding light fall-off are absolutely correct. As soon as you point an SB800 into a brolly, you're doing two things that will effectively cause a reduction in your flash's light output.

1: You're increasing the light-to-subject distance. Significantly, in most instances. Let's say that you're pointing your flash into a brolly, which is the technique you're looking at, and which is a quite common splution. Let's also say that the brolly's arm length is two feet. This means that your light has to travel from the gun those two feet to the brolly, and then retrace those two feet back to the flashead's original location before it starts it final journey towards your subject.

So, there's a four feet (say) increase in your light-to-subject distance, which, if youe placing your light four feet from the subject, is a doubling of that critical light-to-subject distance.

And the further your light is located from the subject, the less effective light you have in the first instance: closer is obviously better, but closer may not provide full coverage of the subject, hence you need to move (the light source) further away.

2: The second impediment here is the brolly itself. Its purpose in life is to spread and difuse the light. The very nature of this task is to reduce the light's intensity, and so while on the one hand, you're trying to keep power up and give yourself a spread of available exposure options, at the same time, you're also seeking to reduce the light's obvious intensity and improve its quality.

Confused? Good!

Ok ...

We now understand a bit about some of the problems we face in this task, what sort of equipment do we need to create a portable lighting kit?

Let's get really basic: one SB800 and a Lightsphere. Very portable, good quality light, some reduction in output due to diffusion. But again, very portable. Can be used handheld with no setup, and relatively inexpensive.

For a studio setup though, you want something a little different. For each light source, you'll need a light stand, a brolly, and a mounting adapter. These can be purchased from places like Vanbar for around $140 all up.

This sort of kit is very small and lightweight, and thus it's portable and can be used indoors or out, provided that there's not too much wind: light weight and wind (and brollies) are not good in bed together.

While the Manfrotto stand you've linked to is great (and I love Manfrotto gear) I'd suggest just getting the generic stuff from Vanbar.

A couple of extra reflectors can be useful too, ascan a small softbox and/or the lightsphere, but a two light setup based upon an SB800 plus an SB600, two stands, brollies, and mount adapters, would be a worthwhile starting point.

And don't forget a light tent for your product shoots: generally speaking far better, cheaper, easier to set up, and more practical than a couple of brollies for the job they're indended to assist you with.

Just be aware of the limitations that each of the alternatives offer, and you'll be fine.

[phillipb]

I'll try and that for you, so far I've tried it with a reluctant model (my wife) who doesn't like me posting photos of her on the net.

[gstark]

For a studio setup though, you want something a little different. For each light source, you'll need a light stand, a brolly, and a mounting adapter. These can be purchased from places like Vanbar for around $140 all up.

What Phillip posted looks to be ideal as a portable kit. Buy two of those, use your SB800 in stead of the supplied slave unit, and you're done for less than $300, with a spare slave. Use that as a hair light mounted somewhere high, through a diffuser.

Phillip,

I presume that the slave flash supplied is a fixed output unit (no power adjustment). That might present issues for balancing light output, but it's nothing that can't be addressed with a lightmeter and moving the light unit a foot closer or further from the subject.

And I presume that it triggers via a photodiode from the camera's built in flash? If so, one just needs to turn off the camera's pre-flash in order to trigger this unit.

[gstark]

I'll try and that for you, so far I've tried it with a reluctant model (my wife) who doesn't like me posting photos of her on the net.

You've just got to stop taking those pornographic photos of her, Phillip.

[MattC]

Chris,

What BP said about power, DOF (largish apertures) and iso. The SB800 is a bit weak for an umbrella.
I do it, but my set up is rigged for two SB800s per umbrella using Manfrotto 2905 clamps to hold the umbrellas and flashes - I made a bar to mount two. I could not find the 2905 on the Manfrotto site, but it is on the BHPhoto site along with a heap of other potentially useful gear.

I might suggest a slightly different approach. I use off camera flash a fair bit these days. To that end, I use a stand with an SB800 mounted with either a diffuser or a small softbox like the ones that can be found on the Lumiquest site. My stands (which I built from CF surplus to another project and I had to make the twistlocks and other hardware, they are also all terrain - I was bored that day!) get up to a little over 3m. I would suggest 2.4m as a minimum. For this sort of off camera flash, I usually want the flash at least 2-3 feet above my subject - often I want more), and off at an angle... But this really depends on the scene. Sometimes I need to use two stands and flashes. Sometimes the flash needs to be higher, sometimes lower... Give yourself the flexibility. Your choice is a bit short at 1.9m.
It is also important to find yourself a stand that you can set up and knock down in seconds for what I am suggesting here - otherwise it may be under utilised. That might mean getting your hands on some and playing for a bit.

This sort of useage is just an extension of the idea behind all of those flash brackets that are designed to get the flash away from the camera.

Cheers

[phillipb]

For a studio setup though, you want something a little different. For each light source, you'll need a light stand, a brolly, and a mounting adapter. These can be purchased from places like Vanbar for around $140 all up.

What Phillip posted looks to be ideal as a portable kit. Buy two of those, use your SB800 in stead of the supplied slave unit, and you're done for less than $300, with a spare slave. Use that as a hair light mounted somewhere high, through a diffuser.

Phillip,

I presume that the slave flash supplied is a fixed output unit (no power adjustment). That might present issues for balancing light output, but it's nothing that can't be addressed with a lightmeter and moving the light unit a foot closer or further from the subject.

And I presume that it triggers via a photodiode from the camera's built in flash? If so, one just needs to turn off the camera's pre-flash in order to trigger this unit.

You're right Gary, no modelling light either, but for the money it is well worth it.

[big pix]

It is a lot quicker to set up 2 or 3 Elinchrom flash heads with modelling lights, stands, and umbrellas to do a photographic job in a professional way. This can only be to beneficial to the client and photographer

There are a number of different brands of small portable flash heads, that do a good job and a lot more power ......

I have a set of Elinchrom flash heads I have been using for over 14 years....... I consider that these to be a good investment and return, being able to do a professional job gives you a better return and repeat business

[beetleboy]

Unless of course you're shooting on an airport tarmac! Don't laugh..I've run extension cables (as an assistant) that could circle the globe twice, nay thrice! He he!

[phillipb]

OK, for those who asked,
the first photo was a quick and nasty set up with the SB-800 on camera set at 1/4 power and umbrella flash camera on manual f9 1/100sec.

The second is a shot of the actual setup.
Both shot as jpeg with no PP at all.

[gstark]

You're right Gary, no modelling light either, but for the money it is well worth it.

The link you provided suggests that it has a modelling light capability. Is that not the case?

Regardless, the price seems to be just a few bucks greater than what a similar setup, without any slave flash, might cost from Vanbar. Given that situation, yes, this seems to me to be quite good value.

Id the flash mounting mechanism universal, as in would it take any flash with a typical hotshoe mount ?

[phillipb]

No modelling light, the stand itself is standard fitting, the flash setup is all inclusive as a unit, the globe itself has a screw fitting. Not sure if it's a standard edison screw fitting, if it is then theoretically you could replace it with a standard globe and use it for modelling light but that would become a bit annoying after a while.
Here's a photo of it.

[MATT]

Thanks for that, hmmm seems good value for money..

MATT

[spartikus]

Thanks all for your very insightful views - gave me a lot to think about! I'd definitely love to grab another SB600 (or two ) sometime down the track for additional lighting, but I think I'll be happy with what I can achieve now with a brolly, a SB800, some low white ceilings and some luck!

Thanks again all - always so useful around here!

[gstark]

It is a lot quicker to set up 2 or 3 Elinchrom flash heads with modelling lights, stands, and umbrellas to do a photographic job in a professional way.

Not if you're in a park or a forest. Plug it in to the nearest tree perhaps?

[spartikus]

Hey team,

After receiving my setup as per quoted in my first post, I thought I'd show you some of the results from it.. These were taken tonight with my sister as the unwilling subject while we watched the soccer.. The one on the left is her reading my overdue license renewal for my car

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisrich/168892437/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://static.flickr.com/69/168892437_e1a68276ac.jpg" width="333" height="500" alt="tash 4" /></a><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisrich/168895636/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://static.flickr.com/77/168895636_eff4b654ee.jpg" width="333" height="500" alt="tash 2" /></a>

I realise there are a few shadows - will a reflector help with this sort of thing? This is my first time with this sort of thing - all shots were set M on the camera, 1/500 (max sync) @ f5.6, shooting an sb800 into a 42" silver umbrella.