I was challenged.....

[Oneputt]

.... today whilst taking photos at my grandsons soccer, by a mother from the opposing team.

I politely told her that it was a public arena and that I was perfectly entitled to be doing what I was. She said it was illegal and I patiently explained to her that it was not. She was very persistent and in the end I pointed out to her that if she really wanted to ensure that no one took pictures of her son then do not take him out in public. I might add that I had previously been talking to other parents in her sons team who did not mind what I was doing at all.

I was mildly embarassed by the incident, but I am determined not to be bullied into giving up my camera.

[the foto fanatic]

Hi John and welcome back.

This is one of the problems we now face. Because of unwarranted actions by shopping centre owners and poorly presented stories in the media, many people have an incorrect perception of the law in this area.

I only hope that when it happens to me, the policeman that I call has an understanding of photographers' rights.

[Justin]

In england it appears to be not allowed - I was at the tower of london and got told off by the teach for snapping the lady in historical dress explaining the tower to the schoolkids.

The funny thing was I offered to get rid of the photo, but she thought I was going to take the film out so told me not to bother...

p.s. it's gone anyway, not a great shot!

[Big Red]

what is the world coming to ?

[Zeeke]

sad sad world.... upsets ya...

I got asked/invited to go to the Ekka to take photos of the bulls but i said no... i dont want to be challenged by some angry mother thinking im taking pics of her kids... im too much of a wuss

Tim

[sirhc55]

I have now come to the conclusion that the very first words one should utter is: ”please call the police” -

[avkomp]

a case of carrying one of the nsw photo rights cards and letting her read it,

and also the call the cops line.

sad sad state of affairs though.

Steve

[marcotrov]

It's a fine line between 'informing' the public re-safety issues and 'panicking' the public Believe it! With the fear generated by the terrorist threat of recent times i've had to stop carrying my ak-47 and wearing my jungle greens and balaclava

Let us seriously hope we don't get as paranoid with the perceived photography threat. I too, as many others have found, have been challenged. This is new but I'm afraid going to be increasingly common territory for us to travel in the future, at least for a while.

Perhaps those more knowledgeable and cleverer than I on this forum may offer us a collective reponse to such challenges. I think we are going to need both the flippant response to a fanatics challenge as well as the measured, rational and well stated response that may satisfy the 95% of people that may have a genuine, albeit misguided, challenge.
Anyone offer one?:wink:

cheers
marco

[sirhc55]

If I was a terrorist I would be wanting to take movie footage of targets and not still pics. Does anyone know if movie cameras are banned

[Matt. K]

I took a few pics at Redfern railway Station and Circular Quay railway station today. No one challanged me. What's wrong with me?

[Nnnnsic]

Matt, you obviously didn't bring your turban.

If I get my hot-shoe mountable Ken and give him a turban, will my camera be considered a terrorist and myself an accomplice?

[Justin]

Matt - It must have been the duck

[Link]

Good on you Oneputt! That was the right thing to say and you also kept on taking photos. Photographers need to stand up for their rights.

Link.

[seedyrom]

is there actually a passage of law that you can produce (and as said, produce a card and say "here, read this") related to this problem ?

[avkomp]

seedy, yep there is. the url where it is escapes me but I downloaded the pdf and keep a copy, just in case.

steve

[PiroStitch]

Great to hear you stood your ground Oneputt! Hope you managed to capture some ripper shots in the process.

[avkomp]

seedy rom:

look here:
http://www.4020.net/unposed/photorights.shtml
you probably want to download and print the pdf download
containing the info you need.
if challenged produce the info and let them read.
If that doesnt work have me call the cops.
most people calm down after reading the appropriate info.

Steve

[Matt. K]

We need to print it on a T-shirt. We would sell heaps.

[Nnnnsic]

Perhaps the front of the t-shirt should read something like this:

Yes, I'm taking a picture.
No, it's not illegal.
Yes, I'm sure.
No, you can't do anything about it but read this message through the viewfinder or lcd of your little point & shoot that you think is so drastically different from my actual camera.

[Steffen]

Perhaps the front of the t-shirt should read something like this:

Yes, I'm taking a picture.
No, it's not illegal.
Yes, I'm sure.
No, you can't do anything about it but read this message through the viewfinder or lcd of your little point & shoot that you think is so drastically different from my actual camera.

Or maybe:

Think!
It's not illegal yet

Cheers
Steffen.

[HappyFotographer]

Thanks for the link Steve, made interesting reading with my morning coffee.

[Frankenstein]

seedy rom:

look here:
http://www.4020.net/unposed/photorights.shtml
you probably want to download and print the pdf download
containing the info you need.
if challenged produce the info and let them read.
If that doesnt work have me call the cops.
most people calm down after reading the appropriate info.

Steve

Maybe this link should be posted on the site's homepage somewhere for reference - this issue comes up so regularly now that it might be good to alert new visitors to its existence.

Frank

[Ivanerrol]

A new variation of the old saying

One terrorist with a machine gun will cower a thousand people.

Now its

One Man with a camera will terrorise a thousand mothers.


The terrorists are winning by restricting our normal freedoms

[avkomp]

The terrorists are winning by restricting our normal freedoms

you are absolutely right.
we have more restrictions to our everyday lives already and this is one of their goals.

Steve

[Justin]

Yes, I'm taking a picture.
No, it's not illegal.
Yes, I'm sure.
No, it's mental gratification I wouldn't be taking pictures of you for anything else, would I?

[Dug]

Good on you OP if challenged I explain and if that does not work I offer to call the police for them if they wish as I have the number of the local police programmed into my mobile phone.

If they continue to nag you then offer to call the police and report their harassment

Fear is a great weapon used by both sides fear keep people under control.

If you have not recently read it, read or re-read George Orwell's 1984.

There are some chilling similarities to modern day life.

[Oneputt]

Dug I read George Orwell when I was a teenager and I have never forgotten it.

[Dug]

Just one of my marked passages, Maybe I think too much!

"A Party member is expected to have no private emotions and no respites from enthusiasm. He is supposed to live in a continuous frenzy of hatred of foreign enemies and internal traitors, triumph over victories, and self-abasement before the power and wisdom of the Party. The discontents produced by his bare, unsatisfying life are deliberately turned outwards and dissipated by such devices as the Two Minutes Hate, and the speculations which might possibly induce a sceptical or rebellious attitude are killed in advance by his early acquired inner discipline. The first and simplest stage in the discipline, which can be taught even to young children, is called, in Newspeak, crimestop.

Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity. But stupidity is not enough. On the contrary, orthodoxy in the full sense demands a control over one's own mental processes as complete as that of a contortionist over his body. Oceanic society rests ultimately on the belief that Big Brother is omnipotent and that the Party is infallible. But since in reality Big Brother is not omnipotent and the party is not infallible, there is need for an unwearying, moment-to-moment flexibility in the treatment of facts.

The keyword here is blackwhite. Like so many Newspeak words, this word has two mutually contradictory meanings. Applied to an opponent, it means the habit of impudently claiming that black is white, in contradiction of the plain facts. Applied to a Party member, it means a loyal willingness to say that black is white when Party discipline demands this. But it means also the ability to believe that black is white, and more, to know that black is white, and to forget that one has ever believed the contrary. This demands a continuous alteration of the past, made possible by the system of thought which really embraces all the rest, and which is known in Newspeak as doublethink. "

Does this sound familiar to anyone else?

[gooseberry]

The terrorists are winning by restricting our normal freedoms

you are absolutely right.
we have more restrictions to our everyday lives already and this is one of their goals.

Steve

No, it is not the terrorists goals. It is the goal of the people in power to use the fear of terrorism to enact laws which give them more power over the individual (for example, a lot of governments around the world now have a so called "internal security act" or something similar which allows them to detain any individual without charge and without access to legal representation)

[Dug]

You are both right because both terrorism and "Strong" government as we now know it need each other.

I know this is way too political but without poverty and repression terrorism would have no breeding ground and without terrorist (or an unnamed external threat like the red menace ) our system of government and leaders would have to change and be more accountable to the people.

Do you really think it is a coincidence that terrorism rose up as a great and terrible threat so soon after the fall of the soviet union?

Just my seditious ranting, I will see at in the gulags comrades

[glamy]

Would not this case have to do more with pedophiles than terrorists?

[Matt. K]

Glamy
Maybe he meant pederist?

[Ivanerrol]

Would not this case have to do more with pedophiles than terrorists?

No - Nanny State

My Rant : Freedom is a society where there a lack of rules.

Freedom is where Common Sense, Fair play and unwritten laws rule society.

Once you abuse these and create rules and laws,Freedom is lost.

If you introduce a bill of rights - freedom is lost

[optogamut]

Anyone watch The Chaser this week?
You just need to dress like an american tourist. Start with plaid trousers...

[whiz]

Upon being challenged, inform the person that it is not illegal.
Here's a hint. Be on public property, or council land without signs preventing photography. Know that you're actually within your rights.

If the person persists, get them to call the police. Supply them with the number if you can.
Do not offer them your mobile phone. (let them pay for it)

Before they call, ask them if they know the penalties for frivolous or nusiance(sp?) calls to the police.
They won't, because they know shit.
Tell them that they're about to find out the answer to two questions then.

When the police arrive (on the odd chance that they will, if the person accuses you of being a potential pervert) GET TO THEM FIRST and explain that you are the person that they're looking for.
This establishes that you are not afraid of having done anything illegal.
The person that calls the police is traditionally the victim, after all.
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO EXPLAIN "THE LAW" TO THE POLICE.
Point out and bring them over to the person who made the complaint if they aren't standing by.
If you have a copy of the photographers rights (in NSW) then give it to them as something that they might want to read later ( not now)
Show them some photos.
If they ask for your camera, ask them if they have a warrant.
BE ULTRA FRIENDLY AND COOPERATIVE.

You are playing with a winning hand. So be gratious and you won't look like a prat.

[Jonas]

It's great to hear of a positive outcome (for the photographer) Oneputt. So often with these stories the photog is threatened or persuaded to put their camera away even when they know they're not doing anything wrong.

However, I can understand some people's fear or resistance to photography in the age of the internet and digital cameras, which makes it so easy and cheap for anyone to take photos and email or post them for anyone else to see.

I'm not saying this is always a bad thing, but it is a marked change from say, 10 years ago, when dessemination of images tended to be limited to photo albums or, for the enthusiasts/pros, exhibitions and being published.