What would you prefer?

[birddog114]

What would you buy/ prefer in between the two following set up:

All imported gears in AU$:

- D70 body + Nikon 24-120VR $1900.00
- D70 body + Nikon 18-70Dx kit lens $1600.00

[Manta]

I haven't actually used the 24-120VR but can only assume it would provide much greater versatility. For the dollars, this would definitely get my vote as the best package.

[gstark]

I cannot remember the last time I used my kit lens, since getting the 24-120

[sirhc55]

With the VR Birddog

Chris

[xerubus]

I haven't got the VR lens yet... hopefully within the next two weeks... but from what i've read and shots i've seen, the few extra quid is worth it...

cheers

[Neeper]

From what I hear, the VR would be the way to go. I don't own one or have tried it yet. But I trust most opinions here.

[redline]

kit lenses combo.
i think it hard to buy it aftermarket at such a great price.

[onimod]

for me 24 just isn't wide enough.
My next lens will be the 12-24DX for sure

[Onyx]

Where's the D70 + 28-70/2.8 and/or 17-55DX deals?

[MHD]

yes please!

[kfandst]

going for the D70 w/ Kit lens since its within my budget. I can probably sell it off if I've outgrown it. I'm thinking the kit lens is more versatile since I can shot a least at a wider angle than the VR lens.

[Geoff]

Where's the D70 + 28-70/2.8 and/or 17-55DX deals?

Couldn't have said it better myself, but for the money I'd go the 24-120 with the body if I had to choose again, then with the $ I'd saved I'd get the 12-24...easy, now where's the cash?


Geoff.

[birddog114]

for me 24 just isn't wide enough.
My next lens will be the 12-24DX for sure

The range should be like this 12-24/ 24-120VR/ 70-200VR + TC 17 if you want more reach.

The 18-70Dx is a good lens though, but the 24-120VR is a winner in both sharpness with VR and long reach. The lens which many members from our forum now own and happy, they left the 18-70Dx aside as a collectible item.
The VR will help you with no tripod or monopod, flexi in panning and shooting in action.
The brand new 18-70Dx, stock from Maxwell is $290.00 GST inc.

[MATT]

If I had my time agin thats exactly what I would do.VR for sure

MATT

[Matty B]

In reference to the poll question I simply can ignore the fact that you pay for what you get (general rule) and if I'd have my 'druthers (cant for financial reasons) I would have the slightly tighter VR lens and buy a prime wide angle or the 12 -24 DX / Sigma to cover wide landscapes.
I've learnt an awful lot about quality since purchasing my D 70 and if the VR lens was made avail in 'Kit' package I would be right into it and saving for a wider lens.
I really can't understand the bean counters at Nikon who stick to the current kit formula after the phenomenal success of the D 70 in sales.
I bet if they offered more varied kit packages with higher end lenses they would convert a higher number of film SLR shooters who know what quality is and realise they are likely to keep lenses and turn over DSLR bodies.

[nodabs]

if it was one lense the 18-70mm definatly i hardly ever use more than 70mm and probably half of my photo's are under 20 infact i ideal lineup would have 4 lenses under 20 that is the 10.5 fish the 15mm fish(for film) the 12-24 and the 18-70mm for me the 70 is long enough for portraits and street shooting and mostly wide enough for some landscape and sports. I didn't expect so many people to go for the 24-120 i think i'd be happy with primes at about 17mm -50mm and 85mm but the 17 would be on most. where are all the landscape photogs ?

[birddog114]

if it was one lense the 18-70mm definatly i hardly ever use more than 70mm and probably half of my photo's are under 20 infact i ideal lineup would have 4 lenses under 20 that is the 10.5 fish the 15mm fish(for film) the 12-24 and the 18-70mm for me the 70 is long enough for portraits and street shooting and mostly wide enough for some landscape and sports. I didn't expect so many people to go for the 24-120 i think i'd be happy with primes at about 17mm -50mm and 85mm but the 17 would be on most. where are all the landscape photogs ?

Landscape people won't use or rely on the 17mm end, the 10.5 is well over for the landscape purspose, and the 70mm is too short for portrait and with the 18-70 is not an ideal of portrait lens as many people already tried due to the sharpness and bokeh.
Yes, the 24-120VR is mostly sought by most people after they tried and compared to the kit lens 18-70.
Nikon does not have prime at 17mm, the Nikon 16mm is fisheye for slr, on the DSLR the 16mm fisheye produced a funny fisheye result coz the 1.5x factor, next one is the Nikon 18mm/2.8, not good for landscape either on DSLR and more money than the 12-24 in Nikon or Sigma
So the range as I mentioned earlier is 12-24/ 24-120VR or your case: 12-24/ 18-70, there 's an overlap of 6mm on the kit lens and you won't use that end anymore once you have the 12-24.

[birddog114]

In reference to the poll question I simply can ignore the fact that you pay for what you get (general rule) and if I'd have my 'druthers (cant for financial reasons) I would have the slightly tighter VR lens and buy a prime wide angle or the 12 -24 DX / Sigma to cover wide landscapes.
I've learnt an awful lot about quality since purchasing my D 70 and if the VR lens was made avail in 'Kit' package I would be right into it and saving for a wider lens.
I really can't understand the bean counters at Nikon who stick to the current kit formula after the phenomenal success of the D 70 in sales.
I bet if they offered more varied kit packages with higher end lenses they would convert a higher number of film SLR shooters who know what quality is and realise they are likely to keep lenses and turn over DSLR bodies.

Matty B,
Please dont get me wrong! The d70+ kit lens is the good proposal for the people who thinks they are new and would like to switch to DSLR from film, and mostly HN, Teds, Paxtons etc... and Nikon or resellers target those for their profits. Then it became a routine trading term when people asking for a new DSLR. OK The D70 or Canon 300D kit, why don't they show customers the Canon 20D or Nikon D2h, peoplle will run away with their price tags + ongoing lust.

The real thing you may buy the body only and grab any lens you want, but how many honest resellers do it for you? You don't have to commit to the kit. People did not ask what they want, just want to grab the deals.

They used this strategies to lure or empty the pocket from many users and they won't tell you up front what Nikon has offered after the D70kit or throw in some lemons as 28-80G lens or 28-100G, cos they only want to make monies not to serve the purposes of photography or photogs. How many salesmen in those shopping mall provide the real or truthfully explanation to newbies, they didn't train to do that and they can't sell their stock if they offer that services

Customers don't understand all and they grab whatever they think cheap and suitable for their financial situation without study the case or doing research about their style of photography. Some people I knew they bought a D2h and always used the PHD mode, came to me for for some questions of what the D2h can do for them?

I also have a nice young couple, came to me 4 times and rang me over the phone 6 times just want to find out which 70-300 lens to buy? Sigma or Nikon G?

Everytime they came, it took me 30min. - 45min. to show, demonstration, testing, answer their questions, and everytime they walked away with their words: "let us think about it". They are not our members

[glamy]

Knowing what I know now, I would not hesitate and go for the 24-120. I got 18-70 and a 12-24 (Sigma) and when shooting landscape I use the 12-24, but sometimes for more distant views the 24-120 would be more flexible than the 18-70, especially with the VR.
Cheers,
Gerard

[Matty B]

Yes, Birddog, you have hit the nail on the head there. Far be it for me to second guess what Nikon marketing strategies may be.
Just about all D 70 shooters I speak to (12 - 15 maybe) are first time SLR format purchasers - like me. I'm not going to shoot myself in the foot and say I bought in haste and got the body = lens kit (18 -70) DX) and say I'm disappointed - BUT I must say I steered right away from the usual suspects when it came to purchasing DSLR because of frankly horrendous treatment by said stores in the past. So I researched as a complete novice on the internet , without the aid of highly knowledgable experts such as your good self to teach me the diff. between quality and average. It's a very sad state of affairs when a buyer from country Vic. goes to Melb. (175km.) with a fistfull of dollars and goes home pissed off and without new camera. More power to the D70 users group!

[skippy]

Well, I already have the kit lens, so I'd have to plump for the 24-120VR. That way I get two bodies! Mmmm, two bodies, one with the 24-120VR, the other with the 80-400VR....

Haven't used the 24-120VR, so can't be really sure. Have used (and bought! Thanks Birddog!) the 80-400 VR, and am a true believer. Magic effect the way the world just goes still when the VR cuts in. Would probably go for the baby VR rather than the kit lens, but then I'd want a wide lens to go with it where now the kit lens does the job. It would end up costing me more than the difference between the two lenses because I'd want two lenses rather than one.

[nodabs]

if it was one lense the 18-70mm definatly i hardly ever use more than 70mm and probably half of my photo's are under 20 infact i ideal lineup would have 4 lenses under 20 that is the 10.5 fish the 15mm fish(for film) the 12-24 and the 18-70mm for me the 70 is long enough for portraits and street shooting and mostly wide enough for some landscape and sports. I didn't expect so many people to go for the 24-120 i think i'd be happy with primes at about 17mm -50mm and 85mm but the 17 would be on most. where are all the landscape photogs ?

Landscape people won't use or rely on the 17mm end, the 10.5 is well over for the landscape purspose, and the 70mm is too short for portrait and with the 18-70 is not an ideal of portrait lens as many people already tried due to the sharpness and bokeh.
Yes, the 24-120VR is mostly sought by most people after they tried and compared to the kit lens 18-70.
Nikon does not have prime at 17mm, the Nikon 16mm is fisheye for slr, on the DSLR the 16mm fisheye produced a funny fisheye result coz the 1.5x factor, next one is the Nikon 18mm/2.8, not good for landscape either on DSLR and more money than the 12-24 in Nikon or Sigma
So the range as I mentioned earlier is 12-24/ 24-120VR or your case: 12-24/ 18-70, there 's an overlap of 6mm on the kit lens and you won't use that end anymore once you have the 12-24.

I guess i should qualify that more in reality i could drop the zoom betwwn about 20 and 150 as its abit of a dead area.

both the fish eye's are for sports as that what i shoot mostly or when i can. the 15 is only because the 10.5 is a DX lense. the 12-24 is for sports and landscape. when shooting say at a skate park with friends i need about that zoom range to keep the full frame as i can get close sometimes backing off to 22 or so rairly to over 24 or at least not quickly, so for the type of shooting that i would be doing that is perfect. however if i then went and shot strangers or poepl who i didn't particularly trust i need to be further back often shooting at around 50mm and using 70 if i am on the wrong side of an obstacle and get caught out, but sometimes i can pre-empt what is going to happen and get close enough safely to use 18 or more mm which is the ideal shot i would be looking for. for this reason i need the over lap until there is a lense that goes from 12-50 that would be ideal.

The 70mm has served me pretty well for portraits on the 1.5 that is 105 which is the classic portrait lense

i guess my case of needing the overlap is abit unique and could be solved with 2 bodies then i could have more of a seamless lineup but until then that would be my plan.

the VR would be nice but in 90% of my shots i would rather a remote flash etup because i need to freez action so that isn't too much of a concern. on the 80-400 i'm saving for however the VR will be very nice .

Well that my take on it anyway.

and back to the origional question if i had to have just one lense it would be the 18-70 because even that isn't wide enough

[birddog114]

and back to the origional question if i had to have just one lense it would be the 18-70 because even that isn't wide enough

nodabs,
if you have only one lens as the 18-70Dx, then you have no choice in select what you want to achieve, especially in landscape,
Like you go into the restaurant: on the menu only has fish & chip
and other restaurant has 15 difference course to choose, of course there's monies talking at this side

[nodabs]

that is only if i was forced to choose one. because i have had my lense at 18mm for most of the best pictures i've taken. ideally i would have many many many lenses. all i was saying that in my shooting (only a small amount of people and street photography) the 24-120 is missing 6mm which i would prefer to have over the increase in reach on the other end. it just comes down to what you shoot. no dopunt the best solution for most is the 12-24 then 24-120 then onwards (maybe an overlap down to 70 for a 70-200) it just depedns what you need from your lenses

[Tommo]

Now the D70 is getting cheaper, and more available to the domestic market, I think you would be better to offer both kits. It's impossible to have one kit for the varying users out there. I have no doubt there's thousands of users who going around using their D70 as a great hobbyist camera, but never have the need to extend beyond the standard lens. On the other hand, there's lots of people out there (ie everyone on here) who want the best lens possible.

On this forum, from most people, you'd receive the response to include the VR lens, but that's a pretty obvious choice for people that use their D70 as more than a camera to capture happy snaps , and who have lens lust for a VR lens of any type

I have no doubt you have already thought of the biased response you would receive here. Not sure if your primary source of D70 buyers is from on here or not though? If it is, then ignore all of the above

I owned my D70 for a few weeks before I found this forum - and had no want for another lense. Started reading around here, and within a day, I had a lense lust (and still do).

Hope I've been of some help,
Tommo.

[birddog114]

Now the D70 is getting cheaper, and more available to the domestic market, I think you would be better to offer both kits. It's impossible to have one kit for the varying users out there. I have no doubt there's thousands of users who going around using their D70 as a great hobbyist camera, but never have the need to extend beyond the standard lens. On the other hand, there's lots of people out there (ie everyone on here) who want the best lens possible.

On this forum, from most people, you'd receive the response to include the VR lens, but that's a pretty obvious choice for people that use their D70 as more than a camera to capture happy snaps , and who have lens lust for a VR lens of any type

I have no doubt you have already thought of the biased response you would receive here. Not sure if your primary source of D70 buyers is from on here or not though? If it is, then ignore all of the above

I owned my D70 for a few weeks before I found this forum - and had no want for another lense. Started reading around here, and within a day, I had a lense lust (and still do).

Hope I've been of some help,
Tommo.

tommo,
The first instance you've got the D70 + kit lens, you love it but soon or later, once you discovered more in photography, the kit lens won't be the only lens in your bag same as other gadgets.
People may not looking for few VR lenses but also looking for some other lenses as 50/ 70-300/ 85/ 80-200 or 12-24 etc.... money is an object but at least they found out later the kit lens won't give them enough reach so there's the lust to start.
To think of those above, people my think and go straight to the daily use lens as the 24-120VR instead of the kit lens and lust other two ends later.

[MCWB]

If I had my time again Birdy, I'd go with the 24-120 VR straight away, instead of via the kit lens. I don't often find myself not getting a shot at 24 mm that I'd have snaffled at 18 mm, and the VR is amazing. It'sa no brainer for me, I haven't used the kit lens (except for comparison) since getting the 24-120 VR.

[Paul]

As a new 24-120 VR member thanks to Birddog, my kit lens is now proudly gathering dust in our study! That's not to say I'll never use it again as I still think it's a great lens when starting out in DSLR's and some days the lighter lens helps you when your hand carrying the D70 & lens around all day long.
But yes if I could go back in time I would certainly pay the extra to have a VR kit option when buying my D70.