Challenge 12: Stella by streetlight

[MHD]

Challenge 12: Stella by streetlight
(With apologies to Victor Young)

Stella may be any living object, and there must be a street light in the image. This means that the light (specifically the source) must be evident. This is not to say the object should be illuminated by the streetlight, it may be implied for example.
The light may be a reflection, or in the distance ... there may be more than one, but must be no less than one ...

This will be a two part challenge, that is there will be two submission galleries opened in sequence. Images from both galleries which adhere to the theme (as decided by the moderators and admins, you may ask for a spot ruling) will be combined into a voting gallery. So active photographers may have two entries.

For those who score two places only the higher of the two will win a prize (so only one prize per member).

Dates:
*Image valid (for BOTH galleries): NOW (from 3:42pm on 10/10)
*Gallery one open for submission: Monday 16th of OCTOBER
*Gallery one close, gallery two open: Monday 30th of OCTOBER
*Gallery two close, voting commences: Monday 13th of November
*Voting closes: Thursday 23rd of November
*Winners announced: At the xmas dinner Saturday 25th of November

[stubbsy]

And prizes will be announced some time RSN

[ozczecho]

Awesome challenge..look forward to it...now all I need is my camera back

[optogamut]

And prizes will be announced some time RSN

I'm still waiting for the prizes for the last challenge to be annouced!

So, bascially just something alive and a streetlight in the same shot? Anytime of day is OK too? i.e. the streetlight doesn't have to be on does it?

[gstark]

And prizes will be announced some time RSN

I'm still waiting for the prizes for the last challenge to be annouced!

So, bascially just something alive and a streetlight in the same shot? Anytime of day is OK too? i.e. the streetlight doesn't have to be on does it?

Correct.

An ant, in the midday sun, crawling on a streetlamp, is fine.

He'd also probably get vertigo.

The last challenge had no prizes; I'm expecting four for this one.

[Manta]

Great! And this hot on the heels of my Urangan Pier shot!!! Back to the drawing board.....

[optogamut]

What about the actual street? It might be a light situated somewhere else.

And I take it I can't take an extension cord and put my desklamp out on the nature strip?

[gstark]

What about the actual street? It might be a light situated somewhere else.

If it's in an adjacent street, I don;pt see that it matters.

If it's not a streetlight, it does.

And I take it I can't take an extension cord and put my desklamp out on the nature strip?

Sure you can. But what's the relevance of that to this thread, or the challenge? It's not a streetlamp, and it's not a living being.

The two required elements are very clearly stated: a streetlamp (not a lightpole) and "Stella", being some form of living object.

If the mods deem that your light is not a streetlight, or that your image fails the specified rules in some way, your photo will be disqualiified.

If you have an issue with the concept, please send Scott a PM, and he will get a spot ruling for you. It really couldn;t be any easier.

[gstark]

Great! And this hot on the heels of my Urangan Pier shot!!! Back to the drawing board.....

Sorry 'bout that, Chief!



But that image didn't have Stella in it, IIRC.

[phillipb]

You sure the ant you were talking about before is not there Gary?

[MHD]

What about the actual street? It might be a light situated somewhere else.

If it's in an adjacent street, I don;pt see that it matters.

If it's not a streetlight, it does.

And I take it I can't take an extension cord and put my desklamp out on the nature strip?

Sure you can. But what's the relevance of that to this thread, or the challenge? It's not a streetlamp, and it's not a living being.

The two required elements are very clearly stated: a streetlamp (not a lightpole) and "Stella", being some form of living object.

If the mods deem that your light is not a streetlight, or that your image fails the specified rules in some way, your photo will be disqualiified.

If you have an issue with the concept, please send Scott a PM, and he will get a spot ruling for you. It really couldn;t be any easier.

Exactly...

Furthermore, you could say, email/pm me with a concept and I will issue a spot ruling on the concept.,...

with all of this: DO IT SOONER RATHER THAN LATER! The closer to the deadlines the less "accomodating" I will be

[Manta]

Great! And this hot on the heels of my Urangan Pier shot!!! Back to the drawing board.....

Sorry 'bout that, Chief!



But that image didn't have Stella in it, IIRC.

It did - but they were very small and very dark.... some fishermen further down the pier. But we digress...

I much prefer the challenge of a fresh image anyway!!

[Alpha_7]

Um, in Scotts description it says

Stella may be any living object

I read may as may or may not be a living object, can we get a little clarification just so its clear in my mind.

[sirhc55]

Um, in Scotts description it says

Stella may be any living object

I read may as may or may not be a living object, can we get a little clarification just so its clear in my mind.

The English is actually correct Craig, but you could use a tortoise with the name of Stella

[optogamut]

What about the actual street? It might be a light situated somewhere else.

If it's in an adjacent street, I don;pt see that it matters.

If it's not a streetlight, it does.

I'm just thinking that I've seen "streetlight" type lights in parks and the such, and depending on the shot, you might never know.

And I take it I can't take an extension cord and put my desklamp out on the nature strip?

Sure you can. But what's the relevance of that to this thread, or the challenge? It's not a streetlamp, and it's not a living being.

The point was, it's a light that I've taken out to the street, hence a "streetlight" (not that my desklamp is alive, I'd use something else for that).

OK, here's another question. Can the living being (how do you prove something is alive at the time you took the photo btw?) be implied or have to be clearly in view. Here I'm wondering about a car, can my living thing be the person driving, even though you may not actually see the person?

[stubbsy]

Danny

Enough with the questions, already Go out and take a shot.

If you are unsure if it meets the rules you can submit it to Scott for a spot ruling as to its eligibility. The more out there your interpretation is the greater the chance it will be knocked back of course. But you never know

The whole reason we introduced spot rulings on eligibility in advance is so we don't spend too much time on what ifs.

[Yi-P]

Since its near summer and a hot week is coming, go out there and take a pic of a plain streetlight, im sure there will be some sort of light attracting insects around... and there you go... its still alive and flying

[optogamut]

Enough with the questions, already Go out and take a shot.

Haha, ok fine. I was having fun though, almost like being back at uni and picking the brief to bits. Of course the object of that was so that we could find a way of doing the assignment with the least amount of work and still pass.

[gstark]

What about the actual street? It might be a light situated somewhere else.

If it's in an adjacent street, I don;pt see that it matters.

If it's not a streetlight, it does.

I'm just thinking that I've seen "streetlight" type lights in parks and the such, and depending on the shot, you might never know.

And I take it I can't take an extension cord and put my desklamp out on the nature strip?

Sure you can. But what's the relevance of that to this thread, or the challenge? It's not a streetlamp, and it's not a living being.

The point was, it's a light that I've taken out to the street, hence a "streetlight" (not that my desklamp is alive, I'd use something else for that).

OK, here's another question. Can the living being (how do you prove something is alive at the time you took the photo btw?) be implied or have to be clearly in view. Here I'm wondering about a car, can my living thing be the person driving, even though you may not actually see the person?

Danny,

I am really stuggling to undertsand your points.

I'm sorry, but I really think this is very clear.

Please tell me precisely wehat is not clear about the term "streetlight", and please tell me exactly how one might be inclined to mistake a desklamp for a streetlight.

And "Stella" must be some sort of living object.

If it's not evident in the image, then it will not qualify.

If it's not something that can be easily discerned as a living object, then it will not qualify.

So, there must be a streetlamp in your photo. If you think that a desklamp brought out into the street is a streetlamp, then please go for it, but please don't be upset when your image is disqualified.

And you may certainly have someone sit in your car. But on the surface, I would respectfully suggest that that would be an image of "Dan's car by streetlight", regardless of whether or not it contained any person or object, living or otherwise.

WHile I encourage all to think laterally, I also encourage you all to consider the spirit of the challenge, and not look for loopholes. Given the questions we've fielded thus far, I'm inclinded to suggest that this moderator, for one, will be taking a harsher line on what constitutes compliance than what might otherwsise had been the case.

This is really not that difficult. As Stubbsy has suggested, rather than asking these questions, why aren't you out there shooting?

And please, don't get me wrong: we welcome your questions, but we will tire, very quickly, where the questions seem to be framed towards avoidance of the spirit of the challenge.

[gstark]

Enough with the questions, already Go out and take a shot.

Haha, ok fine. I was having fun though, almost like being back at uni and picking the brief to bits. Of course the object of that was so that we could find a way of doing the assignment with the least amount of work and still pass.

I fully appreciate what you were doing. I too did the same at school, but this is not a school.

The problem with that is that we have others here who may not have been aware of this sort of thing, and they may be misled. Also you should perhaps pay a little consideration to the mods team who help around here in a purely voluntary fashion. Is it approipriate that you waste their time, energy and resources with this sort of thing, when they're going to quite a bit of effort to help everyone here ?

[terminaltackle]

So what happened to the corker cryptic clue?? Just one further question, do you consider traffic lights street lights?

Having read most of this thread already, a simple yes no answer is fine by me. Besides I am sure I can find something thats alive

Brett

[Willy wombat]

The last challenge had no prizes; I'm expecting four for this one.

DOH!

I wasnt sure if there was a prize or not.

No probs though. Im very happy with the glory and will just have to try harder for this comp

[gstark]

So what happened to the corker cryptic clue??

Corker was never a clue. Just because somebody thinks it might be doesn't make it so.

Just one further question, do you consider traffic lights street lights?

That's actually a good question, but I would say no.

Besides I am sure I can find something thats alive

Don't forget that you need both: something that's alive, and the streetlamp.

[optogamut]

This is really not that difficult. As Stubbsy has suggested, rather than asking these questions, why aren't you out there shooting?

You mean shoot first and ask questions later?

[stubbsy]

This is really not that difficult. As Stubbsy has suggested, rather than asking these questions, why aren't you out there shooting?

You mean shoot first and ask questions later?

and the answer is yes

[Matt. K]

The concept of a streelight and living element seems to be far to complex for some members. Let's change it to 'a house brick'?

[optogamut]

Personally I'm not going to waste my time and chance it being rejected later. It's not a logical practice, I'm sure someone like Wendell has his shoot planned and approved beforehand, and doesn't just hope they like it later.

A brief needs to be pretty B&W and deal with any interpretations that are not allowed, and a thread like this should expand on that and clear up where the lines are going to be drawn (granted I posed a few things on the otherside of the line, but that should still allow for establishing where it was).

For me in the egg challenge for example, there were a few entries allowed that I wouldn't have considered shooting (assuming I'd thought of them) as I would have thought them outside the brief. Hence the need for a bit of research and establishing how much latitude we have when thinking of ideas for our images.
And that's half the point isn't it, anyone can get an image of a steetlight and living thing! The image that stands out is one that has a unique interpretation of the brief and gets noticed for it's creativity.

[gstark]

For me in the egg challenge for example, there were a few entries allowed that I wouldn't have considered shooting (assuming I'd thought of them) as I would have thought them outside the brief.

As did some of the mods.

We went through a most exhaustive process, looking at all of the images that any of the mods considered marginal, and took a vote amongst the mods to determine the eligibility of each of those images.

In order for an image to have been excluded, it requaired a clear majority of the mods to vote the image out - there are 8 of us, and that means that it needed at least 5 mods to feel that the image didn't qualify.

Several images were excluded, and several others that some considered to be outside the brief were not felt, by that clear majority of the mods, to be outside of that brief, and thus they remained in the contest.

And, as has been said several times already within this and other threads, there is always the choice - your choice - of a spot ruling. The mods go through the same process in order to determine a submitted image's eligibility. any submission made in this manner is done so anonymously - with the exception of Scott, none of the mods are aware of from whom the image comes.

Now, instead of talking about this and complaining that you think the theme is somewhat open to interpretation, let me assure you that no matter what the theme might be, there will always be some element of interpretation inherent within it.

We're people, we all react differently to different stimulii, and we can all put a different spin on words that we think the read or hear. Let me assure you of that - I'm an expert in the art, and regularly misinterpret the words of others as a matter of course.

And as a matter of great mirth.

But getting back to the point: there is no such thing as a challenge theme that is perfect. Never has been, and there never will be. If you can come up with a better system than what we have in place, please feel free to send a PM to myself or one of the mods - we're all ears.

Otherwise, please, it's time for you to get over this.

Go out and shoot.

Use our offer to get a spot ruling: if we adjudge your image to be within spec, where is the problem?

If we don't, you'll already know why (otherwise, why do you even think it might be marginal, eh?) and you'll have time to refine your proposed entry or just change your concept entirely.

Again, where is the problem?

Hence the need for a bit of research and establishing how much latitude we have when thinking of ideas for our images.

And in what way does the spot ruling solution not satisfy that goal?

And that's half the point isn't it, anyone can get an image of a steetlight and living thing! The image that stands out is one that has a unique interpretation of the brief and gets noticed for it's creativity.

Actually, I think that you'll find that getting the image is not quite as easy as you think, but there's the challenge! The image gets noticed for its creativity.

Not because it tries to break the rules, but because it works within them.

[gstark]

I stand corrected!

And prizes will be announced some time RSN

I'm still waiting for the prizes for the last challenge to be annouced!

....

....

The last challenge had no prizes; I'm expecting four for this one.

Oops.

I'm getting old.

I've just had it pointed out (had my nose rubbed in it, actually) that I had in fact announced that there would be prizes for Challenge 11.

So ...

I need to pay a visit to my prize cupboard, which won't happen till the morrow, and find something(s) appropriate to the task

So, my apologies for the confusion, and please stay tooned, I'll have something to announce shortly.

[optogamut]

And in what way does the spot ruling solution not satisfy that goal?

Fine for me, but my thinking was that this discussion thread would help everyone be on the same page as far as the interpretation of the brief.

And that's half the point isn't it, anyone can get an image of a steetlight and living thing! The image that stands out is one that has a unique interpretation of the brief and gets noticed for it's creativity.

Actually, I think that you'll find that getting the image is not quite as easy as you think, but there's the challenge! The image gets noticed for its creativity.

Did we say the same thing here?

Anyway, it's all good, I don't have a problem. I still think that there should be a full and thorough discussion of the brief when it's released, as I think it's a good thing and assists everyones creative process (I'll just keep it a bit more serious).

Cheers.

[Justin]

Danny, like the man said - you should be out shooting - man-up, stop trying to over-rationalise a creative subject. Nothing wrong with the challenge. You seem to be asking to be told how to interpret it - and as I suspected, you are hitting a brick wall 'cos the mods are smarter than that.

I also feel you are looking for a precise definition of the end result so that you don't have to think about it - or can provide the perfect result - this ain't a test and mods certainly don't have to be objective! They won't know what it is till they see it either!

It's dark, it's late - there are a stack of S by S out there - grab your camera and do your stuff.

My interpretation of this challenge is spontaneity - this is a great opportunity for some candid shots.

Whats your interpretation?

[Pa]

all seems pretty clear to me, camera gear, street light, living object. i dont see any thing tricky in the rules.
cheers pa

[gstark]

Actually, I think that you'll find that getting the image is not quite as easy as you think, but there's the challenge! The image gets noticed for its creativity.

Did we say the same thing here?

Yes we did. I was pointing out how simple this may seem. The reality is that it is not as simple as is at first seems, hence it's a challenge.

Anyway, it's all good, I don't have a problem. I still think that there should be a full and thorough discussion of the brief when it's released, as I think it's a good thing and assists everyones creative process (I'll just keep it a bit more serious).

I'm certainly in favour of a full and thorough discussion of the brief, but it also needs to be a reasonable discussion of that brief. I object quite strongly to having my time and resourcses, and/or the valuable time and resources of the mods and KMs here, disrespected and and wasted by what I see as frivolous and spurious discussion that in reality has little to do with the overall thrust of the challenge.

The question raised regarding a traffic light, which is normally seen on a street, I think was more than reasonable, and fits within the context and spirit of the challenge. The desklamp question was spurious and frivolous, and I think, quite wasteful and disrespectful, as noted above.

So, if you have a serious question, please ask and it will be discussed and answered; if you do not, then please, keep it to yourself.

Now, FFS, get out and start shooting, before the local council chops down that streetlight!

[gstark]

all seems pretty clear to me, camera gear, street light, living object. i dont see any thing tricky in the rules.
cheers pa

That sums it up.

Go forth and shoot!

[admajic]

I totally see where Danny is coming from with his qu. I was also disqualified from the egg challenge. And I had an egg in the photo.

Does the sam apply here? Do we have to have a Street lamp that is taking up more than a certain percentage of the shot and does the living object also have to follow some rules??

I dont mean to sound harsh but Im not going to waste my time to be disqualified again??

[gstark]

I dont mean to sound harsh but Im not going to waste my time to be disqualified again??

And why would you not take up the option of getting a spot ruling?

How many times do I need to say this?

Is the concept of a spot ruling so difficult to comprehend?

I'm sorry, but I do not see the problem. I really don't.

[admajic]

And why would you not take up the option of getting a spot ruling?

Ok. Point taken. I have the brain in motion on some idea.

[Nnnnsic]

Look seriously people, it's not a hard concept to grasp.

It's like a "signature item". The image has to show the signature item as being the intent of the photo or being central to the image... it cant just hang around in the background and say "oh yeah, I'm here, but really this is a different image with this odd thing in there just so I can get into the challenge".

Stop arguing and take some shots.

[gstark]

I dont mean to sound harsh but Im not going to waste my time to be disqualified again??

I don't mean tp sound harsh, but the purpose of these challenges is to make you think about your photography, and to get you to make images that conform to a preset theme, and most importantly, to improve your photographic skillset in some way.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but the KMs spend a fair bit of time discussing a variety of ideas and deciding upon a concept for the challenges.

And I certainly don't mean to sound harsh, but I know that Scott spends a lot of time organsing the challenge and gallery where the images are stored, along with the the infrastructure for the voting.

And I don't mean to sound harsh, but if you feel that doing this is a waste of your time, then please feel free to not enter.

But please stop disrespecting those who do put a great deal of time and effort into making these things happen for you.

[stubbsy]

Just my 2 cents worth. The whole idea is not to try and bend the rules to get in a shot you don't in your heart of hearts thinks meets the theme. Nor is to to prove your mastery of the nuances of the english language to tease out all manner of esoteric interpretations of the theme description. It's about taking photos

In the case of this theme there are two things required - a streetlight and a living object. These should be the primary thing in the image. Not just some incidental little afterthought (like a 1 mm high streetlight and an ant in the bottom right hand corner of a pretty pic of Uluru). The thing the viewer needs to notice is the streetlight and stella. Simple eh

One thing I'm sensing here is there may be some disquiet about what does and does not meet the theme. If you all think the theme sucks then say so and we'll look at dumping it and replacing it with one that is clearer. But if you do understand the theme FFS stop asking for preemptive descriptions of what is and is not OK. It all comes down to how YOUR image is interpreted by others as to its compliance to the theme. But since we don't like seeing people miss out on getting an entry in that may push the envelope too far we have a panel of experts (well the mods anyway) who'll run their eye over your masterpiece and give an assessment of its eligibility. Couldn't ask for better than that could you. Just don't leave it till the last minute or if your entry is ruled out you have no time to take another.

One final point - please don't take this to mean that each and every one of you asks for a spot ruling on every image.

[Aussie Dave]

Well said Stubbsy.

Now lock the damned thread and let's all go take some photos !!!

[admajic]

Thanks for all the replys. I may offer a solution. How about a demo pic of what you would expect.

ie. http://us.inmagine.com/img/photodisc/pd ... 020039.jpg

Then I cant see how people wouldnt get the idea wrong.

[macka]

Thanks for all the replys. I may offer a solution. How about a demo pic of what you would expect.

ie.

Then I cant see how people wouldnt get the idea wrong.

You shouldn't embed images that are not yours into your posts - just provide a link.

[Nnnnsic]

Indeed. Allow me to correct.

[gstark]

Thanks for all the replys. I may offer a solution. How about a demo pic of what you would expect.

Er, no, that's really not a solution.

I can think, off the top of my head, of a half dozen different scenarios that meet the specified criteria.

And I'm not even trying. I was talking with Phillipb and he and his wife came up with another three ideas!

Which of those should I photograph and post?

And then, of course, anyone who even remotely follows what I've posted runs the risk of being accused of plagiarising those concepts.

Far better to just think about the topic and and come up with your own ideas.

Tell you what, though, I'll give you a clue: go outside into the street. Find a streetlamp. Lie down on the ground, and look up.

[Yi-P]

I just came back with a few shots today.

I just found out that I have the subject lit by the streetlight, but my lens is too long (tight frame) that it only shows the pole but not the light bulb, will this be considered 'acceptable' ?

[phillipb]

Not now that you've told us, I suggest you use the PM facility.

[gstark]

I just came back with a few shots today.

I just found out that I have the subject lit by the streetlight, but my lens is too long (tight frame) that it only shows the pole but not the light bulb, will this be considered 'acceptable' ?

I'm afraid not. We'd be wanting to see the bulb, or at least it's housing.

[MHD]

I agree and I agree people should be VERY carefull not to say to much..

I will re-iterate what I said earlier: You can submit a concept for a spot ruling as well...

PM me a description, as acurate as possible, of the scene you plan to take and will be able to tell you if it is acceptable or not...

[phillipb]

I have a question. Not so much about this comp. but all our comps in general.
Is it considered appropriate pp if you correct perspective distortion? I ask this because although you are applying it to the whole photo, you are are really just stretching the top or shrinking the bottom as the case may be.