Is my 30D second hand???! Photo-count question.

[chet]

I got my 30D 2 weeks ago. I was showing a mate at work my photos, and he asked "how the hell have you taken 6000 photos in 2 weeks?" - one of the photos I showed him was _MG_6313.jpg. He told me this means the camera has taken 6313 photos!!

I checked the first ever photo I took and its _MG_5369.JPG. Am I drawing the right conclusion here - had my camera taken 5368 photos before I even touched it!!?

[sirhc55]

chet - it certainly appears that way. Who did you buy it from or through

[chet]

"brand new" from Teds in Melbourne.

If I have been ripped off, I will be very upset.

[obzelite]

does the exif have a shutter count on the canons?

[cawdor]

That's what I would check too - get Opanda Iexif and see if the shuttercount is recorded in the photo data. If it is and it's indeed more than you yourself have taken, take it back and demand an exchange to a new camera.

[obzelite]

Just done a quick google and the result seems to be only canon can tell you, but the number of the file seems to be an accurate way of knowing unless that number is reset.

Maybe see if u can find a place that can service canons and ask them if they can tell you.

What i would be more concerned with is if they have given you a warranty returned camera that's been fixed and sent back to them.

[adam]

Did you use a new card? or a card that was not formatted?
Using a card with folders already on it can make the numbering jump if using continuous numbering to make sure that you don't overwrite photos using the same name

[petal666]

Did you use a new card? or a card that was not formatted?
Using a card with folders already on it can make the numbering jump if using continuous numbering to make sure that you don't overwrite photos using the same name

Exactly, if you have used a card with images and folders already on it, the camera will start at the next image number.

[jdear]

eek!
Got my checking my files... my photo's on my 30d start at IMG_0004... well thats what I have kept... I deleted the first few I took.

I hope thats not the case for you... 6000 accuations already on the camera is NOT acceptable! (I wouldnt even buy a second hand camera with 5000+)

J

[MATT]

Chet, Its the Nikon Karma Gods..

Seriously I'd be a little pissed if this is the case.. Opanda Iexif should be able to tell you..

Keep us informed and good luck.

MATT

[petal666]

Opanda Iexif should be able to tell you..

No it won't. Only on the 1D models.

[sirhc55]

chet - I would take it back and attack verbally from the first word uttered. Let them know that you are an experienced photographer that does not like being taken for a ride

[Aussie Dave]

Just done a quick google and the result seems to be only canon can tell you, but the number of the file seems to be an accurate way of knowing unless that number is reset.

I found THIS on the Fred Miranda Forum, which seems to support Obzelite's findings.

Maybe see if u can find a place that can service canons and ask them if they can tell you.

Perhaps try:
Canon - Melbourne Office
33 Lakeside Drive BURWOOD EAST VIC, 3151
13 13 83

They can hopefully confirm this for you. If this turns out to be the case, ask them if they can give you something written on a Canon letterhead supporting their findings, then visit Ted's and demand a new replacement camera.
I'm sure they'd be interested in keeping a Canon-owner happy

I wouldn't bother going back to Ted's yet, as they will only need to send it to a service centre to get checked anyway, so you might as well do it yourself & you'll know there hasn't been any
funny-business happening in the background. Once this has been done, I'd then go with Sirhc's suggestion

[moz]

I suggest being honestly willing to swear that no card that has been in the camera has ever been in any other camera before yours. Canon cameras are quite good about picking up the numbers from any same-brand camera if they share cards. That has tripped me up before. And 6000 shots is an awful lot - as you say, you wouldn't do that just playing around for a couple of weeks. I'd expect obvious wear on the camrea after that much use.

[obzelite]

I suggest being honestly willing to swear that no card that has been in the camera has ever been in any other camera before yours. Canon cameras are quite good about picking up the numbers from any same-brand camera if they share cards. That has tripped me up before. And 6000 shots is an awful lot - as you say, you wouldn't do that just playing around for a couple of weeks. I'd expect obvious wear on the camrea after that much use.

unless its been brought back from a pro who used it for a few weeks and trying to keep him happy they gave him a new one and sent that one for repair, then flogged it to the next customer when it came back.

i know the digitals the ppl use for the santa shots at shopping centers get a whole heap of use but look brand new still.

[adam]

or the possibility that an old card was used to test it at the shop.

Are you sure sure sure that a new card was used / old card formatted?

[chet]

The CF card was brand new, still in it's plastic packeging. It had never been used in anything before my 30D. I'll give that Canon number a call tomorrow and see what they say. Cheers guys

[surenj]

Please keep us posted and good luck...

[chet]

ok I rang Canon today and I was told that in most cases, the numbering should start at zero. The rep suggested I ask Teds what the case is. So I went to Teds and was told that they do not sell second hand or warranty-returned gear - and if they did, they would sell it at a discounted price, and the customer would be well aware. He also said the file numbering means nothing, different cameras start at different numbers.

I then rang Canon back and was told that they can check the number of actuations (and do a sensor clean at the same time) for $85. Now what do I do???!

[gstark]

Chet,

I would demand that Teds pick up the cost for this. But don't let them have the camera - you need to speak with someone senior, and from the corporate office, rather than from the store.

Their explanation is at odds with what Canon have told you, and I see no reason to believe that what Ted's are telling you is true.

They need to back up their sales peoples' statements with action.

[obzelite]

ok I rang Canon today and I was told that in most cases, the numbering should start at zero. The rep suggested I ask Teds what the case is. So I went to Teds and was told that they do not sell second hand or warranty-returned gear - and if they did, they would sell it at a discounted price, and the customer would be well aware. He also said the file numbering means nothing, different cameras start at different numbers.

I then rang Canon back and was told that they can check the number of actuations (and do a sensor clean at the same time) for $85. Now what do I do???!

thats a hard one, cause u dont know if canon would cover the arse of a dealer by telling you its a low number, but then you could work that out by your first shot versus the number of the files now. For my piece of mind i would get it done, just not mention anything to them when u do drop it off. and then if it comes back at the amount u know it should be you can feel a whole heap better.
if it comes back at 6000+ actuations i would screw teds to the wall for selling second hand cameras at new prices, get your 85 bucks back from them plus extras for stress and expences or threaten to go to today 2nite that program loves these kind of stories.

[Underload]

thats a hard one, cause u dont know if canon would cover the arse of a dealer by telling you its a low number, but then you could work that out by your first shot versus the number of the files now.

True, but as I think was mentioned before, and he removed the camera store from situation, and approached Canon as an individual after an actuation check - there wouldn't really be a competing interest then (I think).

[Aussie Dave]

Chet,

I would demand that Teds pick up the cost for this. But don't let them have the camera - you need to speak with someone senior, and from the corporate office, rather than from the store.

Their explanation is at odds with what Canon have told you, and I see no reason to believe that what Ted's are telling you is true.

They need to back up their sales peoples' statements with action.

I agree with Gary. I wouldn't let Ted's have the camera until it has been confirmed what the shutter actuations are.

Once you know for sure...and if it is 6000 actuations, I'd contact Head Office, NOT the store, and tell them the story. If Canon are able to give you some form of documentation to back up their findings, tell Ted's you can send them a copy of the doc from Canon, along with the camera's serial number, date of purchase (possibly even a copy of the sales invoice). Let Ted's sort it out internally from that point & if they ask for the camera, they can't do a swap on the sly and then have a different camera tested.

If Head Office have all the correct documentation, the store shouldn't have a leg to stand on & I imagine will (or would at least hope) that they would offer to give you a new 30D in replacement.

Certainly not good publicity for Ted's (and on a Photographic forum as well....that's all they'd want !)

[chet]

I'm taking it to Canon tomorrow. I rang again today and got someone helpful who's offered to test it for me for free

[gstark]

Chet,

Sounds promising, in terms of attitude and productivity.

Often the real battle is just finding the correct person to speak with, and it almost sounds like you've jumped that hurdle.

[obzelite]

I'm taking it to Canon tomorrow. I rang again today and got someone helpful who's offered to test it for me for free

very good news.

hopefully you get more good news when u collect it.

[chet]

I went to Canon, and had my camera looked at. It'd had 1140 shutter actuations. Dude said that camera's have between 500-1000 actuations before they even leave the factory. I've taken at least 800 photos, so I'd say it's new. Someone (somewhere?) has put an old CF card in my camera, and when I started snapping, it's just continued on.

[MATT]

Well thats good chet!!


MATT

[gstark]

Chet,

That sounds like a most satisfactory outcome.

Good news, and I'm glad that this has all turned out ok.

Well done.

[DaveB]

I just came to this thread late, and I'm glad that Canon were able to verify the shutter actuations for you.

But contrary to the people indignantly jumping up and down that Ted's may have sold you something they shouldn't have, my initial reaction to this is always that someone put a card in with a non-zero frame number on it. This particular complaint ("my camera isn't new!") is very common in places such as DPReview, especially when new models come out and people get the new bodies.

I'd have to say that in all the times I've heard someone with this complaint, I've never heard it come back to the camera not being new.

Cheers

[obzelite]

its all because they are canon users, not uber leet nikon ppl.

good outcome anyways.