Canon 30D - why shouldn't I buy one?

[ozonejunkie]

G'day All,

I was just wondering if anyone had any reasons that I shouldn't buy a Canon 30D? The combination of the awesome price that is available at the moment, in combination with a mate of mine offering to buy my current 300D is making me very very seriously think about upgrading.

I have been into Teds today to have a "play" with the camera, and to say the least - I was impressed. A lot of the photography that I do these days is Rallysport, and I really would like a faster camera to deal with the action, this camera seems to fit the picture well.

To the 30D owners out there - what do you hate about the 30D?

Thanks,
Tristan

(Answers of "because it's a Canon", whilst true, aren't particularly helpful. )

[adam]

I will try to be helpful

I was also a 300D user (got mine in Feb 2004) and a few weeks ago, something happened to it. Now while it's away on repair, I ordered the 30D (as soon as it appeared on the list! haa. such a good price couldn't resist!).

I've had a play with my friend's 30D, and I couldn't find anything not to dislike on it (from playing).
The main things that I liked included the big screen and the feel of it (compared to 300D).

While I was thinking whether I should get the 400D or the 30D, the nice thing about the 400D that I liked was the dust reduction system, and the thing about the 30D was the nicer body to hold and spot metering.

I'm hoping it arrives tomorrow (and I've got my first exam tomorrow!!! ahh)

I'd say buy buy buy, especially since you've got a buyer for your 300D, otherwise keep your 300D for as long as it'll last you. As I'm not into "chasing the latest", the 300D already suited most of my needs, but the failure of it and a good price for the 30D was a good enough excuse for me to buy buy buy

[ozonejunkie]

I've had a play with my friend's 30D, and I couldn't find anything not to dislike on it (from playing).
The main things that I liked included the big screen and the feel of it (compared to 300D).

From the 40mins i spent in at Teds yesterday, this is the same conclusion I reached.

While I was thinking whether I should get the 400D or the 30D, the nice thing about the 400D that I liked was the dust reduction system, and the thing about the 30D was the nicer body to hold and spot metering.

The 400D was never an option in my opinion. The body is just too small to hold comfortably. It may be OK with the kit lens, but with anything heavier I would find it very uncomfortable.

I've got my first exam tomorrow!!!

I can relate to that, I have just finished two, got another two to go though. - Good luck thought!

Any thoughts from those of you that are using the camera?

[sheepie]

(Answers of "because it's a Canon", whilst true, aren't particularly helpful. )

Spoilsport

Sorry - nothing to say that helps here - just had to acknowledge your good humour and anticipation of the likely responses

[ozonejunkie]

Sorry about that sheepie... if you feel you need too feel free to tell me it's a Canon...

[adam]

Mine just arrived.... but got an exam this afternoon! oh n0ez.

[MHD]

Because you should put the money towards a belated farewell present for me in the form of a d200

[asaroha]

Since from what I heard it's basically the same camera as the 20D, perhaps that's one reason not to buy the 30d if you can save money and get the 20d instead ?

But yeah a more valid reason would be because you should put the money to better use, like satisfying my lens lust

[Wocka]

Gidday,

I can't really help regarding your choice as I'm a 350D user.

But the question that has always been on my mind with the 400D. Where does the dust from the dust reduction system go? Ok is shakes it off the screen to the bottom of the inside of the camera body, correct?

Is there some magical dust fairy that then somehow throws it out of the camera body? Surely by turning the camera upside down ( is in a bag while on your back ) your just going to shake it back onto the screen.

Cheers

[wendellt]

hi

over the past month ive used 4 canon systems

1ds MArkII - studio work

and for events a 30D and 5D and even an old d60

the interface is proabbly the most annoying thing on canon it takes two hands or two butons to change settings like ISO or focus points

but in terms of image quality its biased towards a much morte vibrant image without internal camera curves
and the HIGH ISO ability is superior to that of nikon

the 2nd annoying thing about a canon is the placement of all of its focus points in a small section in the centre of the focus screen so you cant easily choose a focus point at the outermost extents of the frame unlike on the d2x

apart from that i like canons high iso ability and im going to buy one soon
a 30D seems like the best deal now

[Nogshale]

Is there some magical dust fairy that then somehow throws it out of the camera body? Surely by turning the camera upside down ( is in a bag while on your back ) your just going to shake it back onto the screen.

I thought the dust was supposed to fall on to some sort of sticky pad....

[ozonejunkie]

Thanks all for your comments! There doesn't seem to be any hugely annoying things about this camera to make me avoid it, so I think I now need to sit down and have a decent discussion with the wallet.

MHD:
I tend to disagree with your point.

asaroha:
Given the price that the 30D is currently available for, I can see little point in buying a 20D. Also, considering the main reason for potential upgrade is for a faster camera, the buffer in the 30D can handle about twice as many shots.

Wocka:
I have no idea, I didn't even consider buying a 400D, so I haven't looked into the way they work at all.

wendellt:
I disagree about the interface tbh. I have no problems changing focus points or ISO speed with only the one hand on the camera. I will confess to never having tried to use a Nikon for longer then 3 minutes. I think it is just a matter of what you are used to.

[Nnnnsic]

I strongly disagree with Wendell on the interface of the 30D.

Yes, the 1DsMk2 and the 5D have the most ridiculously awkward interfaces on the planet, but the 30D isn't bad at all... very Nikon-like... for a Canon, that is.

[wendellt]

I strongly disagree with Wendell on the interface of the 30D.

Yes, the 1DsMk2 and the 5D have the most ridiculously awkward interfaces on the planet, but the 30D isn't bad at all... very Nikon-like... for a Canon, that is.

you always have to disagree with me somehow

but i meant the 5d and 1ds markII ands most other canons have the same interface

the 30D i like because its interface has been refined

[Razor]

Well.. you can get the D80 for less and apart from the casing and lower frame rate its superior

[ozonejunkie]

very Nikon-like

I don't know if i want it now.

I haven't used a 5D long enough to actually become frustrated with the interface, and my experience with the 1D line is merely drooling.

Tristan

[ozonejunkie]

Well.. you can get the D80 for less and apart from the casing and lower frame rate its superior

Let me guess..... because it's a Nikon??

Tristan

Edit: I just looked at the D80 specs, and it is far from an upgrade...

[Nnnnsic]

You've obviously never used a 1DsMk2, ozone.

Drooling over the 1Ds sensor is fair... but not the interface. It's ridiculously appalling and that they didn't even fix it for the 5D nor either of their focus point technologies is just insane, especially on cameras that are supposed to be that advanced in relations to full-frame (full-frame sensor + APS focus points = not-so-brilliant implementation of full-frame technology).

What I mean to say in comparing the 30D interface to Nikon's is that unlike the past generation of pro-level Canon cameras, the interface on the 30D is usable, which is something Nikon digi's tend to usually have (I say usually because the D100 wasn't that impressively worked out).

[ozonejunkie]

No, I have never used a 1DsMkII. I have never really bothered to pay too much attention to them, to be honest.

I was unaware of the FF sensor + non-FF AF system, and can understand that really is not an ideal combination.

As I said, I have not used a 5D for more then a few minutes. What is the problem with it's interface, as it appears to be quite similar to that of the 30D? Or am I missing the crux of the matter here?

Cheers,
Tristan

[drifter]

hi


the interface is proabbly the most annoying thing on canon it takes two hands or two butons to change settings like ISO or focus points

Just to be a pedant .You can custom set the focus point thing to the top joggle thingy and its a one finger operation.

the 2nd annoying thing about a canon is the placement of all of its focus points in a small section in the centre of the focus screen so you cant easily choose a focus point at the outermost extents of the frame unlike on the d2x

Agree totally about the spacing .Far from ideal .


On topic .I use a 20D and am pretty happy with it .The 30D doesn't have enough difference with what i have to want to upgrade.But a friend of mine has one and he is happy with it .He went from a 10D

[gstark]

Well.. you can get the D80 for less and apart from the casing and lower frame rate its superior

Not if you've got a supply of Canon glass.

[moz]

the interface is proabbly the most annoying thing on canon it takes two hands or two butons to change settings like ISO or focus points

Maybe I'm missing something, but on my 30D both those things are two-step, one hand tasks. Or you can configure the focus select to the joystick like I do and then it's one touch. There's something about the buttons being on the top-front of the camera where they're hard to reach while looking through the viewfinder that can be annoying, especially if you get into the "ISO is an often changed setting like shutter and aperture" mode. I found the Nikons to be just the same in that respect, but maybe I missed something as I'm not familiar with them.

In many ways the 400D is a better camera - it's smaller, lighter and it has sensor cleaning for starters. The small battery is a negative, but IMO it's really a toss-up between a bigger camera with more buttons giving faster access to common functions, and a smaller camera with fewer hassles as a result.

It depends a lot on what you want - the 30D has a bigger buffer and faster frame rate, so will do that stuff better. The 400D requires less cleaning so if you don't like lingering over dust bunnies it's a winner. The 30D has a bigger battery so runs longer (I went to Melbun for 4 days and only used one battery for ~1000 shots and lots of reviewing, and maybe 100 flash shots), but the 400D has an extra 2MP.

The focus point thing is a Canon universal as far as I can tell. I find it annoying, but not as bad as the noise that Nikon users get on their photos.

Can some Nikon user explain the whole one-handed change of ISO thing - my recollection is that you hit a button on the left of the camera then twiddle a dial to change many settings. Or hit two buttons at the same time (like Canon 1 series?). That seems to me to require two hands, whereas I've learned to change both ISO and focus points with the camera held only in my right hand (while, say, riding my bike with the other hand). Obviously I'm missing something.

[ozonejunkie]

it's smaller, lighter and it has sensor cleaning for starters.

I don't consider smaller a better camera. I don't know what you shoot with, but when I bought my 300D, i also tried the 350D to see which one i prefer. IMO, the 350D (and 400D) are too small, to the degree of being uncomfortable to hold. They are fine with the kit "lens" that you buy with them, but with a heavier lens, I think they would become awkward very fast.

Lighter can be good / bad, the 30D feels much more firm in your hands then the polycarbonate body of the 400D, but this also comes back to size. I don't mind having a heavier camera body if it is of better build quality.

This is why the 400D was never an option in my opinion. Sensor cleaning, whilst cool, is nothing a $30 blower can't fix.

[bwhinnen]

After handing a 30D with BG-E2 and the 70-200 f2.8L IS USM yesterday at Photocontinental I wouldn't bother with a smaller camera. It was well balanced and very easy to use.

Being a Nikon user currently the interface was much different, but that is simply a matter of learning.

I must say it was quick to focus and the 5fps was surprisingly fast, who would have thought 2fps was that much difference. I was soooo tempted to ask the sales guy for a play with the 1DmkIIN they have there, 8.5fps, 45point AF system...

The only thing I'd contemplate is would you be upset if a new XXD came out in Feb that had a 10.2MP, anti dust sensor and few other refinements... Personally the extra 2MP for me is not really required, and the anti dust is just a gimmick, useful for smaller clumps of bunnies but nothing more.

I'm waiting until Jan / Feb just because that is when the new motorsport seasons start and I will be in a better position to afford the body and glass I want.

Brett

[ozonejunkie]

G'day Brett,

I was using the 30D + grip + 24-105 when I sampled mine, and I agree, it does feel nice together - I will certainly be buying a grip this time! I can understand the interface difference, even going from the 300D to the 30D is a big shock.

The introduction of a 40D(?) in February really wouldn't worry me that much to be honest, I bought the 300D just as the 350D was introduced.

I am hoping that by the beginning of next year the price of the 70-200 f4L IS has come down out of HK, and that I can afford to buy the new glass then.

Tristan

[moz]

I don't know what you shoot with

The bit where I said "my 30D" should give you some idea.

I don't mind having a heavier camera body if it is of better build quality.

That's why what and where people shoot is really important. I do a lot of walking around taking photos, but not a lot of studio work, so smaller, lighter gear is important to me. I'm prepared to pay money for that, but I'm not keen to lose essential features. so I have a carbon fibre tripod, for instance, but I'm using a DSLR rather than a high end PoS camera.

This is why the 400D was never an option in my opinion. Sensor cleaning, whilst cool, is nothing a $30 blower can't fix.

Why stop with a $30 blower when a complete wet clean kit fits your preferences better? It not only works better, it's bigger *and* heavier! Although I find that either of those works poorly in windy, dusty conditions especially compared to a vibrating sensor. That's one thing I hope canon bring in across the range.

To me the 350D with 70-200IS feels quite nice, it's well balanced and works surprisingly well for many things. Focus is faster and more accurate than I expected from such a cheap camera. I expect the 400D would be even better with that lens, and I don't anticipate having a heavier lens for a while yet (unless I go Nikon, in which case I'd likely get the 200-400/4).

If you really want bigger, heavier and better quality, the 14MP Kodak camera is still available (second hand) in Canon mount, and that has more megapixels as well as full frame and other advantages.

I'm curious about what people are using to carry the bigger cameras around in. I use a Crumpler $7M dream and it's packed out just carrying my 30D, 70-200, 12-24 and 24-70 with a PHD stuffed down one end. I can cram a 1.4xTC in there but that makes access slow. I expect that adding the battery grip would mean removing a lens or the PHD, based on playing briefly with a 20D+grip. I haven't seen a bigger shoulder bag, and for mobile shooting a backpack is not very practical (I have one and use it, but not for street shooting if I can avoid it).

[ozonejunkie]

The bit where I said "my 30D" should give you some idea.

OK - Sorry about that, I decided not to process that information.

That's why what and where people shoot is really important.

I totally agree. I do a bit of motor sport photography (rally in particular) so I want something that can handle a bit of a knock if need me. I don't mind gaining a couple hundred grams for this. I can understand that weight can definitely be an issue though.

That's one thing I hope canon bring in across the range.

I do totally agree, but that feature was never going to be enough to convince me to go for the 400D over 30D.

To me the 350D with 70-200IS feels quite nice,

OK, as I mentioned earlier, I find the 350D uncomfortably small for my hands, but that is just a matter of personal preference.

I'm curious about what people are using to carry the bigger cameras around in.

I myself use a backpack for carrying me gear, but I don't need fast access to my gear, just a way to carry it around.

I apologize if i have ruffled any feathers moz, I certainly didn't mean too!

[adam]

One thing I used to say was better on the 10D, 20D and 30D while I was using my 300D was that the 10D, 20D and 30D have an extra dial at the back to change the aperture, but after being used to having to press a button and turning the same dial, now I have the dial at the back which I thought would be better - I guess it's just something I'd have to get used to

[moz]

To me the 350D with 70-200IS feels quite nice,

OK, as I mentioned earlier, I find the 350D uncomfortably small for my hands, but that is just a matter of personal preference.

You might want to try putting a big lens on a little camera - you might find that the more you have to hold the lens instead of the camera the less the camera size matters to you, and the difference in total weight might matter more. But for motorsport you definitely want the faster frame rate so it's a bit academic.

I myself use a backpack for carrying me gear, but I don't need fast access to my gear, just a way to carry it around.

Motorsport (waaay back in the 1980s when I shot it) was all about lug the gear to the spot, set up tripod/monopod and wait. So not a lot of need for fast access except for the 50/1.4 around your neck for those unexpected crashed/naked spectators. So a backpack is fine. But watching the peeps at DSLR meetups struggling to deal with "take pack off-find lens-pack everything in-put pack on" made me quite conscious of how bad that is when I have to do it (and just how often I change lenses).

I apologize if i have ruffled any feathers moz

Sorry, I was a bit twitchy after a 12 hour train trip and the combo of you not reading carefully and assuming that I would know what you meant is one that particularly annoys me.

[Big V]

Get one, you will love it!! Fast, low noise, built like a tank and with the grip runs all day and night. I hang an 80-400 of it no problems. The interface is easy to use and you cant beat the low noise. 100 to 3200 range. Dollar for dollar a brilliant camera oh and the 2.5 inch screen is a joy. Downside - hmmm, maybe at super wide you are a little limited for choice but if you are into medium to long it is great. For under 2 grand it is easily a winner.

[adam]

Get one, you will love it!! Fast, low noise, built like a tank and with the grip runs all day and night. I hang an 80-400 of it no problems. The interface is easy to use and you cant beat the low noise. 100 to 3200 range. Dollar for dollar a brilliant camera oh and the 2.5 inch screen is a joy. Downside - hmmm, maybe at super wide you are a little limited for choice but if you are into medium to long it is great. For under 2 grand it is easily a winner.

With the 12-24 on (or you could put a 10-22 on), I consider quite wide - well, wide enough for me

[moz]

I have the sigma 12-24 and it is quite nice... but on a full frame body it's astonishing.

[drifter]

I am hoping that by the beginning of next year the price of the 70-200 f4L IS has come down out of HK, and that I can afford to buy the new glass then.

Tristan

Personally i think you'd be better off gettting the 70-200 F2.8 (Non IS ) instead of the IS F4 . The price is about the same as the F4 which doesn't come with a tripod ring (which costs about $200) while the F2.8 does .The 2.8 is magic in low light.

[DaveB]

If you really want bigger, heavier and better quality, the 14MP Kodak camera is still available (second hand) in Canon mount, and that has more megapixels as well as full frame and other advantages.

I would dispute the assertion that the SLR/c has higher image quality than any recent EOS camera, and the performance and interface suck!

The interface of the 1-series cameras is quite clunky when compared to the D30/D60/10D/20D/30D/5D range (call them "mid"), and personally I'm not enamoured of it. Maybe that's just a lack of practice - most of my 1-series experience is with a 1D.
In response to some Nikonite's comments, I must say that the interface of the D70/D100 which I have used a fair bit is extremely clumsy (to me, at least) compared to the above EOS "mid" bodies. Some of that carries over to the D200, but I haven't used it enough to comment further (I think some of my bug-bears have been fixed though).


The 300D/350D/400D (the "low" range?) are a bit more awkward to use, but I have a 350D and use it in conjunction with my 30D. I thought the 350D was going to be too small (I have big hands) but in the end, no. The 400D is actually a bit better (e.g. slightly more room for fingers between the grip and the lens). Despite being smaller, the 350D's interface is significantly better than the 300D's.

The 30D & 5D's interface is probably my favourite amongst DSLRs at the moment, although it's not perfect (Pentax has a few good ideas they could learn from).


The focus point of the EOS bodies have traditionally been concentrated around the centre. For example, the 7-point AF system of the 10D/300D/350D originated in the film 30/33 bodies, and because their frame size is larger you'd find the AF areas correspondingly smaller. I think it's much better on a 10D than a 33!
Similarly the 5D/20D/30D/400D share the same AF sensor, and it's comparitively much smaller on the 5D. It would be nice in the 5D's replacement if the AF points were spread wider, but I'm not sure that it will happen.

[ozonejunkie]

Thanks to everybody that has replied to this thread! I have just ordered a 30D body!

Tristan

[adam]

Wonderful, excellent, congrats You'll enjoy it heaps!
I've been enjoying mine so much since I got it - went to a wedding with it yesterday

Our 300D's just lost a zero!

[Julz]

ah u missed out on this:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Kodak-DCS-Pro-14 ... dZViewItem

i was curious after reading about it here

i wonder how much its gonna sell for?

[gstark]

Jules,

Considering that this is the Canon section, and the camera you have linked to is the Nikon version, I'm not sure about who has missed out on what.

And as a Nikon user myself, that statement still holds water.

[Julz]

Jules,

Considering that this is the Canon section, and the camera you have linked to is the Nikon version, I'm not sure about who has missed out on what.

And as a Nikon user myself, that statement still holds water.

oops my Sony, should have checked that theres a nikon and a canon mount version

[moz]

I would dispute the assertion that the SLR/c has higher image quality than any recent EOS camera, and the performance and interface suck!

I was more taking the pass out of the idea that bigger and heavier necessarily mean better quality (or, for that matter, more megapixels). But I do think they're not a bad camera for the price *if* all you care about is image quality. Sure, you're limited to low ISO and almost everything else about the camrea sucks, but if you're an IQ purist what other cheap choice do you have? $1000 gets you what, a second hand D70 with a tiny sensor and half as many pixels...

[bwhinnen]

I would dispute the assertion that the SLR/c has higher image quality than any recent EOS camera, and the performance and interface suck!

I was more taking the pass out of the idea that bigger and heavier necessarily mean better quality (or, for that matter, more megapixels). But I do think they're not a bad camera for the price *if* all you care about is image quality. Sure, you're limited to low ISO and almost everything else about the camrea sucks, but if you're an IQ purist what other cheap choice do you have? $1000 gets you what, a second hand D70 with a tiny sensor and half as many pixels...

Geez if someone offered me $1000 for my second hand D70 I'd be very happy indeed.

[gstark]

but if you're an IQ purist what other cheap choice do you have? $1000 gets you what, a second hand D70 with a tiny sensor and half as many pixels...

Actually, Au$1K will buy you a brand spanking new D70s body, and still leave you with change in your pocket.

$200 more gives you a 400D, and another 150 gives you a D80.

All good cameras, and each of them capable of far better performance than any PHD.

And are you saying that the "tiny sensor" on a D70 will be worse than the sensor on a PHD? Please point me to any PHD with a sensor size that approaches that of the D70. Typically, PHD sensors are about the size of a pinky fingernail. Not even close to even the 3/4 system size, let alone that of the D70.

[DaveB]

Gary, in that sentence I'm sure Moz was comparing the D70 to the full-frame sensor in the DCS SLR/c...

[gstark]

Gary, in that sentence I'm sure Moz was comparing the D70 to the full-frame sensor in the DCS SLR/c...

Dave,

Perhaps, but I really don't take that from what he's said.

For instance, "I was more taking the pass out of the idea that bigger and heavier necessarily mean better quality" suggests to me that he's trying to say that bigger doesn't mean better. Thus, an FF Canon, for example, doesn't automatically mean better quality. While the latter is somewhat true, it does provide a better foundation.

For instance "what other cheap choice do you have?" says to me that he's looking at the lower end of the price range. As we know, there are no FF cameras even close to this end of the price spectrum.

I'm certainly open to correction, so Moz, could you please clarify your statement and intent?

[DaveB]

As we know, there are no FF cameras even close to this end of the price spectrum.

I think the point is that the SLR/c is close to this end of the price spectrum.
Of course, the fact that it's a discontinued model (only lasted March '04 - May '05) that didn't sell well might have something to do with it...

The older DCS 14n is even cheaper, but this is the Canon forum after all!

[jdear]

I have been very happy with my 30d, so much in fact im buying a 2nd as my 2nd body for weddings.

J

[moz]

For instance "what other cheap choice do you have?" says to me that he's looking at the lower end of the price range. As we know, there are no FF cameras even close to this end of the price spectrum.

I was specifically comparing the SLR/c for ~$1000 to smaller, lighter cameras with smaller sensors but in the same price range. My apologies for not knowing current pricing on cheap cameras, I thought the D70 was still fairly expensive.

But yes, if you're looking at a brand new, still in production full frame then you have few options and none of them cheap.

You're correct that I don't buy the "bigger is always better" logic.

[Kris]

30D is a cracker of a camera - the body is just awesome

I'm going up to a 5D now and L series glass... I had a d70 and my dad has a d70s - no comparision to the 30D

Buy the 30D, its wonderful and the camera is very easy to use imo! Just takes getting used to. For me, that took a few hours and I was comfortable

[shutterbug]

Because 5D is fully frame and produces better high iso images