New Year's Upgrade

[Yi-P]

Another decision time for an 'upgrade'. Getting more involved into portrait and event photography and may want to get to earn some more experience on it. Also want to experiment with multiple lights setups.

Will only be able to purchase one of the follow (either be on the high or low ends). I can afford the lower end through savings by end of this month hopefully, but the higher end, may be months later from the little income I earn

On the lower end (affordable ~$500) of the decision tree I got in mind is:

*A set of 2x 110W studio lights + umbrella/stands for $300, and a backdrop stand for $110, on the great auction site...

*A brand new SB800 from Mr Poon at bargain price, and one or two stands with umbrella/softbox.

*A new lens, looking at a constant f/2.8 short zoom. Probably the Sigma 24-70 f/2.8. I like its hefty weight and size, then ofcourse the price

On the higher end (plenty saving until ~$2000) I have in mind:

*Brand new D200, used once and cant stop dreaming of it... its an evil machine.

*New Nikkor 28-70 f/2.8 lens, forget about the lower end cheap lenses and go for premium Nikkor.


Its a pretty hard decision, but any suggestion will be appreciated.

[gstark]

Yip,

Question 1: Are going to be using the lights? If so, I would go down the path of the studio light + backdrop circus, as it gives you something new to play with and lear, while you then scrape some sheckels together for the more expensive stuff.

You will find that sort of setup quite usable and versatile, and it will be serviceable for a fairly long time.

THEN

save your pfennigs and get more glass. There's nothing significantly wrong with your camera body that a different/new body will make that much difference to the images that you produce.

The glass, OTOH, does make a difference, in a couple of ways, and gist of this is that what I'm suggesting you buy now is the stuff you'll be keeping (and using) longer term, whereas your body is more of an interim purchase.

By the time you save again for a new body, the D200 might have been replaced, or it may be somewhat less expensive, or .... but your earlier purchases will all still be usable with whatever the (newest) body that you eventually buy will be.

HTH.

[daniel_r]

Can I help?

Go for glass.

The Nikon 28-70/2.8 is fantastic, and the price through here is equally so. I have no regrets about purchasing it.

I was a undecided originally, but once I'd ran a few through shots through Stubbsy's at-the-time newly acquired 28-70, there was no going back. This the pick of the bunch in my lens collection, even beating out the 50/1.4.

The Nikon 28-70's best attributes as I see them are sharpenss, beautiful bokeh and colour/contrast rendering. It's beefy, but it delivers the goods.

Matched with the D2h, it's the ultimate PJ kit.

As for bodies... they come and go. I can even use the 28-70 on my full frame Nikon... 35mm Nikon EM that is

[Yi-P]

Yip,

Question 1: Are going to be using the lights? If so, I would go down the path of the studio light + backdrop circus, as it gives you something new to play with and lear, while you then scrape some sheckels together for the more expensive stuff.

You will find that sort of setup quite usable and versatile, and it will be serviceable for a fairly long time.

I'm sure I will be using it (how frequently, still not sure), but my only doubt is how to transport them. As for not having my own transport and have to rely on public transport when going around, it will going to be a little trouble for me to take it around. Space is also a limitation here that I may not have much space to setup the 'studio', but I'm more inclined in taking it out for on location works.

That might be a reason I had a thought about a second SB800 with some stands, as it *might* be more verstatile and easier to carry.

save your pfennigs and get more glass. There's nothing significantly wrong with your camera body that a different/new body will make that much difference to the images that you produce.

The glass, OTOH, does make a difference, in a couple of ways, and gist of this is that what I'm suggesting you buy now is the stuff you'll be keeping (and using) longer term, whereas your body is more of an interim purchase.

By the time you save again for a new body, the D200 might have been replaced, or it may be somewhat less expensive, or .... but your earlier purchases will all still be usable with whatever the (newest) body that you eventually buy will be.

HTH.

That is very true Gary

Then if it is a glass, should I go for the sumpreme premium Nikkors?

Thanks,

[gstark]

That might be a reason I had a thought about a second SB800 with some stands, as it *might* be more verstatile and easier to carry.

A part of my thinking was that, as soon as you add the stands, buying the kit makes a lot more sense.

First of all, the kits include the same sort of stands and lights, and the pricing is essentially no different from buying just the stands plus brollies on their own. So, in one way, the heads are free.

Secondly, let's for a moment forget about the background stands, and just look at the lights and light stands. Whether you buy an SB800 plus brollies plus stands plus mounting adaptors, or whether you buy the lighting kit, these are also roughly equivalent to one another in the portability stakes.

But the kits will probably include a carry case, whereas some sort of carrying bag will still need to be acquired if you go down the SB800 path.

Bottom line is that excluding the background stands, the lighting kit is very similar in terms of portability to the SB800, but probably, after adding the extras, half price with twice the number of light sources.

The one areea where the SB800 solution wins out is in terms of outdoor usage, where it can be used regardless of a wall socket. That will not be the case with the flash heads.

But consider this - the cost of the kit with the heads will only be a little more than the purchase of just a pair of stands/brollies etc .... this it might not preclude your purchase, further down the track, of another SB800 anyway. Your stands can be use with the heads, or with the SB800.



And the background will, at some point, be something needed regardless of which path you go down.

Then if it is a glass, should I go for the sumpreme premium Nikkors?

If you can, absolutely. That is the sort of purchase you will never regret: ask anyone with premium glass if they want to sell it ...

[wendellt]

personally i think the 28-70 f2.8 is a lens i love to hate but i can't because it just covers that medium zoom range that i use

but for price point it's really just a luxury

think about 28mm being the widdest end considering the crop factor its not really that wide at all

there is a tamron equivalent that does the job

there ar emany other lenses that are much more versatile

but i guess it depends wether you want premium quality over practicality

you can have much for fun with that cheaper studio setup
compared to what pleasure a 28-70 will give you

[xerubus]

I use the sigma 24-70 daily .. and I am very impressed with it's sharpness and contrast. It's built well which is important for my usual subject. If I had spare cash to throw around i'd buy the nikon 28-70, or preferably the 17-35, but for my price bracket at this stage the sigma is a great performer at a user friendly price.

If I was in your shoes I would get the cheap studio setup and the sigma lens... but if money wasn't an issue I'd get the studio and the nikon lens.

cheers

[Yi-P]

Thanks Gary, Wendell and xerubus.

I'm much attracted to the studio setup as for its low price compared to the Nikkor lens. Tho I still have one thing to figure out before the purchase, spaces to deploy the studio.

I live in a not too big place and can hardly put down extra chairs or tables. If I ever get to purchase this, I still have to think about where should I deploy it for use. I think I can take it around with me as long as I have the appropriate bag or casing for them, but what are the suggestions on places I should put the setup in?
Say if I get a chance in portraiture shoots, should I arrange the shooting on location or let the client come to my place and possibly squeeze them into the garage place?
My thoughts will be where to use it, transporting them on a long journey might not be feasible, but short rides between suburbs in Sydney and close to public transport places can still be "do-able" I think...

[xerubus]

If you already have an sb800 (?) and lacking in space like a double garage etc, think very seriously about getting just one 500ws portable light (external power pack) with one umbrella and one softbox. That way it will be easy to setup around the house with a bit of furniture movement, or even better for work out on the field, whether it be a furniture shop, the outdoor, or the beach. Great results can be obtained with one good light source and an sb800 for back lighting etc.

Location shooting is a lot more rewarding at times than a static studio.

cheers

[Yi-P]

I think one single 500ws flash with portable battery pack will easily exceed $500 , they simply cost as much as I buy 2x 300ws units I think.

[Oz_Beachside]

I think one single 500ws flash with portable battery pack will easily exceed $500 , they simply cost as much as I buy 2x 300ws units I think.

Please be careful, you mention location lighting.

When I look to spend on kit, I look at what I need, and take an 80:20 approach. Meaning, what MUST I have for 80% of the shots I want, and what stuff fills in the other 20%?

Focus on the 80% things first.

If you are looking at studio lights, and want to shoot at say f8 at 1/250th, blocking out most ambient light, then you may want somthing like 500ws. However, the higher the watt/second rating, the larger bag of coins you will need.

I purchased a bowens battery pack, to drive my 500ws heads, and find, on location, if in the sunset, or evening, I only need the minimum power, which drives me to think, that outside of bright sunshine, a lower rated back could suffice, like the start up kits around $1000. The battery retails for about $1200 (with charger), so you have to add that on to the cost of the light/stand/umbrella/bracket etc. Some will say go for SB800's, more flexible, and cheaper, however, as I think Gary said, if you add a stand, a bracket, a modifier like an umbrella, the cost gets close to the basic kits.

Look at if 80% will be from mains power, if so, perhaps a $1000 starter kit? If on locaiton, without power, and must be battery, perhaps speedlights and stands/umbrellas. Dont know of cheaper alternatives for batteries. Also, not all flash heads have the ability to run from batteries, so plan that carefully if battery is a possible step for your kit to grow.

If I had $1000 and looking for my first piece of studio lights, I'd go with something like this... these packs retail at d'store for somehting like $1200, so other shops would have for a little less! (also, then you are not limited when you want to expnad your kit) http://www.bowens.co.uk/brochures/studioinabox.pdf

Dont know if HK have some options (careful to purchase from 240VAC compatible countries). These things are heavy, so postage may make a cheap price on par with local???

[Yi-P]

On the 80% side, I believe I will be using the mains for powering the flashes. Then if I ever need to be shooting outdoors, I think the SB800 on stand and reflector will be able to do the job.

There is a 'starter' pack on eBay as posted here couple while ago, which comes with:

2x 110Ws lights
2x stands
2x white brollies
2x silver brollies
For ~$300+$25 s/h
No bag to be included tho.

I will then be required to buy the backdrop stands, which goes for $110+s/h on from the same seller.

Then I may need a softbox and reflector (~$50 each +s/h).
And a backdrop (not sure about the price for this yet).
Then I need a bag to carry this, another ~$50 deal.

That all in all, ~$600 base price without the shipping costs.
A little over my savings right now, but I think I can afford this through little bit more saving over couple weeks.

[Oz_Beachside]

You could start with the lights. And have HEAPS of fun learning from there.

The backdrop can be later purchase if you like. In the mean time, you can use a wall, garage door, bedsheet, material from spotlight, a tarpolin, garbage bags, leafy trees, t brick wall, a timber paling fence, a local train station with a graffitti wall, barn doors, kitchen cupboards, somehting plain, something busy, a couch... lots of options there to experiment with your lights.

I have recently purchased 12meters of black cloth, 150cm wide, and a friends mother has sew it into a 3x6m backdrop (for about $50 costs, rather than a few hundred from camera shop).

And for the stands, a clothes line would work, or if subject is small enought, hang off the back of two chairs, or over the couch. Its really only when you want to shoot head to toe, on a single backdrop, that you might need the stands, and infinity background curve.

on the softbox, there is lots to learn with umbrellas first (if this is your first set of lights). Ive seen many pics from pro friends using umrellas, who own $1000 softboxes, and the results can still be sensational.

Are the $300 kit using flash (comfortable for modeling subjects), or hot lights (can get to warm for humans)?

[Yi-P]

Are the $300 kit using flash (comfortable for modeling subjects), or hot lights (can get to warm for humans)?

They are studio flashes. I played with hotlights, I didnt like them at all, makes you feel very uncomfortable specially on warm days.

[Yi-P]

I think I have made up my mind for the set of lights.

I'm now looking at the 110Ws package or the 300Ws package.

Do I ever need to bite the bullet for the extra power on 300Ws? Will that really make a noticeable difference in the quality on portraits?

For the softbox, will it be better to get an 'octagonal' softbox or the traditional rectangular one?

Now choices are: bite the bullet for 300Ws lights and get less accessories, or get the 110W set and get some softbox(es), reflector and the background stands... oh, wait... what about the backdrop? I dont have one either.

Sorry for all these questions, I'm not at all experienced with lights and have no idea what I'm looking after anyway.

[photograham]

Another smaller scale solution to go with the SB 800 would be to buy an SU 800 (flash commander) and another SB 800, and then run the 2 sb 800's off camera. This might be my small scale solution later this year.

[Oz_Beachside]

Does an SB800 function as an SU800 if settings are made to do so?

If so, spending 80% of the cost of a SU800, seems worthwhile to spend the 100% and get a thrid flash, rather than 2xSB800 and 1xSU800... or am I off track here?

[wendellt]

I think I have made up my mind for the set of lights.

I'm now looking at the 110Ws package or the 300Ws package.

Do I ever need to bite the bullet for the extra power on 300Ws? Will that really make a noticeable difference in the quality on portraits?

For the softbox, will it be better to get an 'octagonal' softbox or the traditional rectangular one?

Now choices are: bite the bullet for 300Ws lights and get less accessories, or get the 110W set and get some softbox(es), reflector and the background stands... oh, wait... what about the backdrop? I dont have one either.

Sorry for all these questions, I'm not at all experienced with lights and have no idea what I'm looking after anyway.

if you shoot outdoors under direct sunlight and want the strobe to over power some of the light from the sun the more watts the better

more watts is good to if you want harsh shadows in that stylistic approach to lighting as if you have a huge studio lights further away from subject can produce the effect and the sweetspot is much larger but you can always compensate with the 110 watt lights by dullig all ambient light and using certain exposure settings its all relative if your on a budget just get creative thinking in there and you can do heaps with a 110 wartt light