Challenge Subjects

[Greg B]

As you all know, the Challenges present an excellent opportunity to test your skills, and to also vote on others' photographs to determine a winner.

The Challenges present another challenge for the organisers, and that is to select a subject which will inspire and motivate. Sometimes, the Challenge subjects attract spirited discussion about interpretations and associated issues.

To assist the organisers develop Challenge subjects which will get you involved and interested, please select one of these options. This is for nothing more than to get a bit of an idea about what you like, or would like to see.

[Oscar]

Hi Greg,
So how would one vote if you were happy with the way the previous challenges have been set.

I think a challenge can be set in many ways. To interpret the challenge can be part of the challenge - and I have seen that this has been a challenge for some - for one reason or another.

MHO is that the setting of the challenge should continue as it has been - a subject which gives the participants room to move (not open slather - so the mods can decide on the finer points).

Again MHO - Who sets the challenge can be a random nomination - but again ratified by the mods.

Hey, as long as the challenge gives me a chance then how can I complain!! I think just having these challenges is a great idea.

Well done team!!

Just my 2 cents. Cheers, Mick  BTW so how should I vote again?

[phillipb]

I agree with Oscar, they're ok as it is. Over the course of the year there should be something for everyone so in theory you should do well when your "pet subject" comes up and you get challenged when you need to shoot something out of your comfort zone.
That's the idea isn't it?
Definitely not an open competition. Imagine trying to decide between a Wendell fashion shot against a blacknstormy macro or a Rockstar self portait, just to name a few.

[MHD]

Without commenting on future challenges I just want to thank Oscar and Phillip for their comments... it means a lot...

I for one want to see the next challenge to be reasonable straightforward... We (Mods, admins, Key members) worry that due to us "Trying to be clever" the challenges have become less accessable... We try (all the time, but even more so when prizes are on offer) to cater for the bulk of contributing members here...

So I encorage you all to not only vote but give your 2c in this thread....

[gstark]

To add to Scott's words, your 2c is much more highly valued than just 2c.

Your opinions within the thread will be most welcome, and are to be encouraged.

So, please vote (or not) and please,let us know your feelings.

[Yi-P]

I'm happy with the selection of theme on open thoughts.

But i will prefer the rules and criteria description/wording be a little on the simple side. Last "stella under street light" was a bit confusing for some on the actual rules of the challenge.

Keeping the subject easily accessible and be shot under many circumstances will be great.

[Escapism]

My 1.8c worth...

I enjoy a comp that takes me out of my comfort zone, thus forcing me to learn something I might otherwise not have. To that end, I enjoy knowing exactly what is expected of me given the constraints of the comp, rather than being left to interpret what might best be expected. So what I’m saying is, I enjoy a comp that is very specific in its needs...Infrared shot of a tree at night etc etc

I do however understand how that would limit some (based on experience, knowledge and skill levels), so perhaps the comps could be scaled...Expert comps through to Beginners comps.

Thanks for listening (reading)

Escapism

[Pa]

i agree with mick on this. the challenges are a learning tool that put some of us outside our comfort zone in each one.i think the way they have been gives us a little room to set a scene .if unsure the mods will check our entry.

and as mick said

Hey, as long as the challenge gives me a chance then how can I complain!! I think just having these challenges is a great idea.


cheers pa

[Aussie Dave]

My $0.02...

I'd like to think that the challenges are about having a bit of fun, learning more about the craft of photography by participating and also from the other participants entries....and also by trying things that one might not otherwise lean towards.

I'd personally like to see challenges that are simple and can be broad in their perception (by each person).

Eg. A Red Chair. (The subject, a "red chair", must be one of the key subjects in the image).
This then opens it up to be a nature/landscape shot, a portratuire-styled shot, a night shot, a beach shot etc. etc. etc.

Artistic expression could be used in ways that, I'm sure, we may not expect from others and/or ourselves.

To me, defining a challenge to the enth degree takes some of the fun out of it. If I can use another example, for the last challenge (Stella under Streetlight), how many entries were of a human being standing under a light ? The vast majority.
Why was Stella considered to be a Human Being ?
I'm not saying that the images weren't great....just that the challenge (IMHO) was scrutinised over so much, that most people who entered obviously went away with a very similar picture in their head.
A coincidence ? Maybe...maybe not.

Compare this challenge to "The Decisive Moment" or "10 Seconds", where the entries were varied in their content, yet still adhered to the Challenge.

Perhaps by leaving the challenges a little broader, with more scope to play with, the creativity of the wonderfully gifted people that grace this forum will produce wide, varied & spectacular images (for all to enjoy).

-----please insert $0.02 to continue ranting-------
----
---
--
-

[Oz_Beachside]

I am grateful for the challenges, I love to be challenged. And, as I am on a very steep learning curve, the themes set in the challenges, encourage me to try somehting new, or stimulate thought into areas I may not go in the main.

Even if I dont submit, I have been participating (which I'm sure others do too).

I must admit, when the chellenge wording gets too micro, I lose interest (but I undersntad from a standards, and judgement point of view). Although, even if an image seems outside the boundaries, maybe we let it in, and enjoy...

yeah, I think dont go too micro, and have fun with it.

thanks to those in here that make this stuff work.

My 5 cents (due to rounding...)

[gstark]

I must admit, when the chellenge wording gets too micro, I lose interest (but I undersntad from a standards, and judgement point of view). Although, even if an image seems outside the boundaries, maybe we let it in, and enjoy...

The problem that exists here is that we sometimes have some very good prizes up for grabs.

We have had the situation arise where comments have been made regarding some of the entries which, to some entrants - and some of the non-entrants, seemed to not comply with the theme that was set.

Is it fair that one image wins, despite the fact that some may consider the image to not comply with the theme?

This was true whether we had a fairly widely defined theme, or one that was quite narrow.

And to a large extent, there is a valid point to be made that all must comply with the theme, otherwise, it could be held that those who did not comply might have an unfair advantage.

Let's look at interpretation for a moment: one man's cieling is another man's floor, so to speak, and thus we can be faced with the situation whereby person A will take a literal meaning to certain words in a theme, and thereby claim to be within the theme, whereas the whole context of the theme will now be distorted.

This brings me back to the point here of micro analysis of the wording, which I do not encourage: the challenge is meant to be exactly that: a challenge. To get you to photograph something different, something that you would not normally photograph, something that's perhaps a bit different, something to help you learn more about this craft of photography.

So, please, forget about trying to micro-analyse any theme that is set, and take the theme, as it is set, within that context.

By all means, if you have genuine questions, ask them. If you have an image concept but you're not sure if might qualify, then by all means, seek an anonymour pre-judgement.

But please, don't spoil the fun for others. Keep it simple, keep it in context, and enjoy the challenge.

[Mr Darcy]

I have been watching these challenges for a while now, and don't really understand what the fuss is about. Surely it is a case of "The judge's decision is final. No correspondence will be entered into"

I am a student at the ANU School of Art. Each year there is a drawing competition with a fairly respectable prize up for grabs. Each year I have been watching it, there is more than one entry making the cut that does not fit into MY definition of a drawing (Last year one was a a collage of cut up wood.) I see this as meaning that I am narrow minded, and need to grow my understanding of what a drawing is.

The way they get around the bias issue is to have a panel decide on a shortlist that is hung, then a judge not part of the panel) decide the winner from the shortlist. Thus the judge cannot inlfluence what is an acceptable entry, and the panel cannot force a decision by the judge.

[gstark]

Greg,

May I infer, based upon your comments, that you're suggesting we have a judging panel rather than the current system of (more or less) popular acclaim?

Regardless of whether that was your intent (sorry ) I'd be interested in the views of others on this point too.

[sirhc55]

It has always been my belief that a panel should judge the challenge. But, I do like the idea of having a short list and then a final judge makes the decision on the winner.

[Pa]

what greg said

The way they get around the bias issue is to have a panel decide on a shortlist that is hung, then a judge not part of the panel) decide the winner from the shortlist. Thus the judge cannot inlfluence what is an acceptable entry, and the panel cannot force a decision by the judge.

is a simple and great idea.
cheers pa

[Oscar]

Whilst it may be an onerous task for the nominated "panel" and the "judge" I am also of the opinion that this would be the way to go in this regard.

The alleviate some of this burden perhaps the nominated panel and judge could be rotated. This would also give them the opportunity to enter some of the challenges when they are not required to be part of the judging process (if they wish).

Perhaps someones "style" of photography will not suit the judge/s this challenge but may fit nicely in the next challenge so no-one should feel left ouy because "so and so doesn't like my photos".

And there are many of us who should try to enter these challenges - even if the latest on isn't my cup of tea!

OK so now, with inflation, that's my 10 cents worth.

Cheers, Mick

[firsty]

I like the idea of more open (broader but still well defined) challenges to encourage more entries
then a panel to pick say the top 10, this will help remove those photos that while they are great they don't really fit the challenge in the spirit it was set.
Then either a judge from outside the forum who specializes in that area to pick the winner or better still open it up to the members to vote the winner from the finalists eg. pick their top 5 in order from the 10

[Mr Darcy]

I was simply describing what another group do in similar cicumstances.

The way I would apply it to this competition would be to have a panel selecting the pictures to display, Probably moderators or senior members.

Once the pictures are selected, then voting is open to the "public". The panel would not be eligible to vote, nor would they be eligible to enter (Perhaps this could be waived if the individual wanting to enter had no say in their own case.)

Panel's decision on selection would be final. If enough (public) voters thought the picture did not qualify, then it would not win anyway. so even if the panel made a mistake in the eyes of the voters, it would not affect the final outcome, so it wouldn't matter.

Further to this if enough voters complained, about a picture not belonging, don't remove it, but do explain why it was included. ie how it met the criteria. If a picture gets rejected because it does not meet the criteria, then how it failed should be explained to the submitter. This does not need to be made public. These last points are to do with education (a strong aspect of this forum!) not the competition per se.

Of course this may not be any different to what is already done.

If you do decide to go with a judge, then I don't think the judge should know who submitted what picture. You are already doing this with the voting.

[xorl]

I don't think there is any need to change the voting. While I might not agree with some of the absolute winners, that's just my personal opinion. In general I've found images at the top deserve to be there.

I think the challenges have been great so far. The topics provide an interesting focus but without being so specific that they get in the way of creativity. The widely varied responses are always fun to sift through. The addition of spot rulings should have solved any issues people have with scope.

I would like to see less spot decisions on the forum, and more through PMs. A lot of people ask queries about potential photos in public, but it's often obvious which photo they are talking about once votes begins. I'd prefer that those discussions were private to maintain the anonymity of the entries. The organisers can post updates to the board if they feel a clarification is necessary..

[Shoot]

As most people here know Im only new to this world, and this forum also... As ive never been involved in a challenge yet i can speak as to how its run, from what ive seen the whole process seems very fair...

I love the idea of the challenges for a few reasons, the main reason being is the current rules allow for some interpretation by the photographer to put his/her 'slant' or signature on the picture... And seems to me that its just as much about skills with the camera as it is the idea behind the picture. I also can appreciate the fact that most individuals prefer / are better at Photographing certain subjects ie, Landscapes, Portraits, Still life etc.

If there is a voting system as there is at the moment, that eliminates to a degree ones bias towards a certain 'type' of image. That bias is Human nature and its present in all of us to a certain degree.

So, as it stands with my understanding of how the challenges are run I think they are fine as they are.