MFD

[Heath Bennett]

I'm hoping Padey and Nnnnsic can help me out with this one as they seem to have the best background/experience with...

Meidum format backs.

We have been shooting quite a few recipe books (4 last year) and it is not the resolution that I am after, but rather the colour that MFD 16-bit brings. In which case I feel that even <20MP is fine. Perhaps the lenses will also have to be quite good to pull out the best colour also.

We designed one book and the client had another photographer shoot it earlier last year - Louise Lister - who says she spent $200K going to digital (I think she means "everything", including computers). Her files are big and striking, but most importantly in terms of colour. Even though it is something that most people don't notice, it is something that gives a photographer a buzz knowing there is no better equipment for the job.

Do any of the big rental places sell off second hand gear regularly? I will probably rent and try first of all...

[big pix]

have a look at the phase one medium format backs........ at L&P Photographics

info@lapfoto.com.au and ask.......

[padey]

Heath,

$200k is ridiculous! My entire MFDB kit cost me between $25k and $30k. Now I only have the baby MFDBs out there (P20 and 645M both 16MP backs), so even if you went the top of the range P45+s, you'd add another $25k for each back. So unless she added a round the world trip on the QM2, then I wish i was the sales guy who ripped her a new one.

Regarding the colour, you'll love it. You need to see it in print, but there is just something about the look of a sharp MF shot. Even those old-school film guys will tell you the MF look is really hard to surpass. Throw on a DB and you get something the MF found hard to deliver. Michael Reichmann has done tests showing how the current DB are surpassing MF tranys.

Your best to hire a kit to give them a go. I was a bit hesitant at first so picked up a ebay Kodak 645M + back. The day after my first photos returned from the first wedding i did with it, I went out and bought a second Mamiya and P20 back. Seriously, you'll love them, if you can justify the expense.

Or if you're in Sydney, I can show you my kit.

[Heath Bennett]

Thanks guys.

Andrew - perhaps I will take you up on your offer!

[Heath Bennett]

Hi again Andrew. I have had a bit of a read around the web as I have no knowledge about MF.

For images of recipes manual focus is all I need, but no doubt I would want to use it for much more which would require more patience than perhaps a Mamiya 645 +P20 (autofocus!).

Anyhow, I read up about the manual focus Hass CFV and it has some quite excited. Did you compare this to the P20?

Perhaps she said $200K because she wanted to sound more worth the money (one client used her before coming to us and she was the information channel regarding the large sum).

[Nnnnsic]

There's a large format back for around $200,000 but that's a ridiculous sum for a MF setup.

I'd try the Mamiya 645 plus back. Despite Dad not liking Mamiya, I've found the RB's to always be pretty good boxes. The 645 is okay even if the eye pieces can be twitchy.

The Blad would be brilliant, but I'd probably look more at a modern manual one as opposed to something like the H1 which can be slower shooting-wise than its manual brethren.

The speed of shooting won't make a difference on digital however if all you've used a system with electronics like the H1 AND you're tethered AND you're using Capture One.

That said, whether Capture One's issues with being tethered in relation to speed variables using either manual or automatic-based MF cameras only applies to MF and not 35mm tethered digi's I have yet to test.

[padey]

Heath,

I have a couple Mamiya 645AFD bodies, they are different to the Mamiya 645 bodies and different to the 645 AF bodies.

Sorry if I repeat anything you know, but this might help others. With MFDB, you have a couple of things that you should weigh up. Firstly what DB to get and secondly what body to attach it to. Thirdly you can take an all in one package; either a new blad H3 or Mamiya ZD. Pentax is due to launch an all in one MFDB body+back combo at PMA. So watch this space...

So its either a body and separate DB combo or an all in one; back integrated into the body. I took the body and separate back combo, so i can keep upgrading my back, without having to go through the added expense of body upgrades too. Plus like most people i get attached to my bodies and glass, that I don't want to change them.

Here are the common options in bodies and separate digital backs.

Bodies
-Mamiya, AFD or AFD2. You can use other older MF bodies, but you need to run an external cable to meter from the lens to the body. These only use Mamiya lenses.
-Contax 645, The good thing is the lenses for these bodies are made by Zeis. The bad news is Contax went out of business.
-Blad, H1 or H2. With blad glass. Bad news is they are very expensive. Secondly the new blad lenses will not work on the older H1 or H2s. Heaps of H2 owners are pissed with this business model.

Now any of these backs mentioned below can be ordered to fit either of these bodies. But you can't use a Mamiya mount P30 on a Contax. I went Mamiya because at least they are still around and making new lenses. (Last year I picked up a very nice 35mm lens.) Contax+Zies combo are gone and Blad is way to expensive.

Non teathered Backs;
Phase One P series
Leaf Aptus series
and to a lesser extent Imacon back. Although this has changed with Imacon taking over Hasselblad and introiducing the H3. But i'll get back to this later.
Or a second hand Kodak DB.

Both Leaf and Phase make great backs, with a range of MP sizes. From 16/17MP up to the Leaf Aptus 75 (33MP) or Phase P45 (39MP). Unlike DSLR sensors, you can't go wrong with either. These backs only shoot in RAW and expect that you have some clue in processing them to get the most out of them. I went phase one, but I would have been as happy with a Leaf Aptus.

-OR-

You can go for n all in one solution. H3 the new body+back combo. The H3 will not take a Phase on Leaf back, only the rebadged Imacon back and it's new and expensive. The ZD is a cheaper solution offering a 22MP back entry into the MFDB world. Plus this body take all the current Mamiya glass.

As with anything, these camera combos are a fit-for-purpose. Ie, if you want FPS, you go leaf aptus 54S or if you want high ISO performance, you go P30+, if you need resolution you get a P45+ or if you want an all in one solution with heaps of lenses on offer get a ZD.

I hope this helps.

[Nnnnsic]

Andrew, I'd also add the Blad 503 to the list as it's a bloody good piece.

[Heath Bennett]

an interesting article:

http://www.hasselbladinfo.com/discus/messages/4/26201.html

[big pix]

when are getting the blad Heath.......

[Heath Bennett]

BP - at one point in time I ad investments...

But I guess this would just be an investment of another kind.


At the moment it is 503 vs Mamiya 645 + P20

The 503 looks way cooler though, even if 645/P20 may be more practical!

[MCWB]

Pentax to exhibit 645 Digital at PMA.

[Heath Bennett]

Pentax to exhibit 645 Digital at PMA.

Interesting indeed. Seems to me that it is a Mamiya ZD like single piece that cant be upgraded (with new backs). Perhaps if the price is good and it is full 16 (14!) bit, unlike the 12 bit ZD.

[moz]

Perhaps she said $200K because she wanted to sound more worth the money

Not to mention "see how much it would cost you to buy the gear that I've got" and "I'm paying this much money so my fees are not that big after all".

$200k sounds like the full cost of a degree in photography as well as all the frills. Does she drive a Ferrari by any chance?

[Heath Bennett]

Does she drive a Ferrari by any chance?

Perhaps just a Veyron

[Heath Bennett]

Here is the EXIF data for the photographer with the 200K setup...



File name: baby spinach 005.jpg
File size: 12655881 bytes (4080x5440, 4.6bpp, 5x)
EXIF Summary: 1s ISO50

Camera-Specific Properties:

Equipment Make: Hasselblad/Imacon
Camera Model: Ixpress 132C - Fuji GX680-III
Camera Software: Adobe Photoshop CS2 Macintosh
Photographer: -CENSORED_
Sensing Method: One-Chip Color Area

Image-Specific Properties:

Image Orientation: Top, Left-Hand
Horizontal Resolution: 300 dpi
Vertical Resolution: 300 dpi
Image Created: 2006:06:29 11:31:11
Exposure Time: 1 sec
ISO Speed Rating: 50
Light Source: Daylight
Color Space Information: Uncalibrated
Image Width: 4080
Image Height: 5440

Other Properties:

Resolution Unit: i
Exif IFD Pointer: 340
Compression Scheme: JPEG Compression (Thumbnail)
Horizontal Resolution: 72 dpi
Vertical Resolution: 72 dpi
Resolution Unit: i
Offset to JPEG SOI: 630
Bytes of JPEG Data: 5130
Exif Version: 2.10
Image Generated: 2006:06:20 15:10:11
Image Digitized: 2006:06:20 15:10:11
Shutter Speed: 1/1 sec

[Heath Bennett]

Is this something that would work quite nicely with a P1 P series back?


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Mamiya-645-AFD-Body-only-Imacon-DCS-Phase-one-Digital_W0QQitemZ200084113184QQihZ010QQcategoryZ39834QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

What kind of extra mounting bit and pieces are required?