Do we need a Showcase section on the forum

[stubbsy]

This poll arises from the following comment in THIS post.

Maybe it might be a time to introduce a Showcase section, where people can just post shots that they have taken to say have a look at what i saw today or something along those lines.

The showcase section would be in addition to the existing Image Review & Critiques section.

I also have a sub question for you to ponder if we did have such a section:

• should we encourage images in that section to be critiqued/commented on (in which case how is this different to the current section)
  OR
• should it just be a showcase (in which case how do we tell people we like what we see).

[moz]

• should we encourage images in that section to be critiqued/commented on
  OR
• should it just be a showcase

I'm inclined to allow it, but not permit comments. That's the whole point of having it separate from the existing C&C area - you can post there without fear that someone might suggest ways your image might be improved and without having to wade through all the "that's nice" to find that comment.

I also don't see any point having it if it doesn't contain images. I'd almost say that the size restrictions should be relaxed, so we allow images up to 1200 pixels and 500kB. That way it can really be a proper gallery/showcase. Maybe Gary or Leigh can dig through the logs and post stats on what display size people are using (I'm on dual 1200x1600 monitors at both home and work, so bigger sizes work well for me).

If it turns out to be technically feasible, what might work well is a simple paged thread where each image just comes up as a post in the thread so you get multiple images per page. That way people can just scroll up and down and see the last 20 images (pick a number) without having to click backwards and forwards.

That would also make it explicit that it's not a discussion area, it's a showcase.

[Alpha_7]

I like the idea of a show case section, sometimes there are shots you'd like to share, where you don't want critique, or perhaps you think it's not necessary, as it was just a lucky capture, or holds some deeper meaning for the photographer.

Just an idea, but I wouldn't mind seeing a thread(s) where everyone posts their own favourite 3 photos from last year, we are all going to have favourites and they might not be what we usually share on the forum for Review and C&C.

[macka]

I don't really see the need for another section.

Granted, there are some instances in which you may want to share something just for interest's sake, but to me, that is the point of a personal gallery/flickr/smugmug account. A lot of these galleries have comments enabled, too.

I have no problem with people just wanting to post a link to their galleries saying, "here, have a look at this," but I think that could happen in the image critiques section, or even in general discussion. I don't see the need for such images to be embedded in forum threads. So I voted for option one.

[phillipb]

I voted no for this, the main reason is that I hate being gagged. If I see something exceptional, it's hard to resist saying "wow, great shot" etc.
If I was the poster of a shot and I got no feedback, I wouldn't know if it was my lousy photo or my lousy ego.

[Alex]

Same here.

Alex

I don't really see the need for another section.

Granted, there are some instances in which you may want to share something just for interest's sake, but to me, that is the point of a personal gallery/flickr/smugmug account. A lot of these galleries have comments enabled, too.

I have no problem with people just wanting to post a link to their galleries saying, "here, have a look at this," but I think that could happen in the image critiques section, or even in general discussion. I don't see the need for such images to be embedded in forum threads. So I voted for option one.

[Reschsmooth]

I voted no because I consider "Image Reviews & Critique" section to be sufficient to allow someone to simply post an image for the sake of showing the image without necessarily requesting C&C.

I personally don't see much of a point in posting an image with the implied "look but don't give me your opinion" to it. I would hazard a guess that most people who post an image would not be upset if someone said "great shot, but I reckon you could try this", which then suggests that the post would belong to the I&R thread.

I know I have posted many images in the hope of getting some "wows", but then people have constructively criticised it which has helped me improve.

Just ramblings from someone trying to delay researching superannuation legislation

P

[ATJ]

I voted for a showcase section simply because it appears that the Image & Critiques section is already being used for showcasing and I think this takes away from people who are posting for genuine feedback.

[radar]

I voted no for this. There are already plenty of sections on here to "wade" through.

I would like to see people just prefix their subject with something like: [Showcase] that way, I can decide to skip it and come back to it later. For those entries, as Moz said, you could relax the posting guidelines.

There is the Personal Photographic Journey section. You could expand that to also include Showcase entries. I know it is Members Only but that's fair enough, if you want to showcase your photos on these forums, you should have "earned" your wings first.

My $0.02AUD, which is now worth a bit more compared to USD

Cheers,

André

[Yi-P]

I second what Andre said.


We don't need different section here, this forum has too many sections and it gets too complicated for first time browser to come by and may not grab their attention and it takes quite a time to go from place to place.

Instead of putting a complete new section, why not put on a set of rules for posters in the Image Review & Critique section on their titles?

If you strictly seeking C&C, type in [C&C] in the title... and if you just want to show case your work for the wowsers, put in something like [SC] or similar meaning to ShowCase... this clearly identifies the title for viewers.
Default titles with no prefixes on C&C or SC, will apply same old rule, critique is allowed. Isn't that simple enough? I think so IMHO.

I'm not sure for others, but for myself, I don't browse through individual sections, I only go into the main page and look for the most recent post section on the right. Big thumb up to the forum team who has put in effort to enlarge that section, really love it.

With these titles, its much easy for people who access these post and know what to post in the replies. If they see C&C, they know they are allowed to post only comments or criticise the work also. If only "SC" is shown, as from the new rules, comments are allowed but not critique.

Similarly, I will like this sort of title setting being on to the "For Sale" section, as adding FS: or WTB: in front of the title instead of just the item name.

Just my $0.03 worth, due to inflations...

[Oscar]

I voted NO. Those with the inclination only to showcase their work should\would probably have the own sites.

The "Image Reviews and Critiques" is aptly named. I may be disappointed at comments I recieve on occasion but I put up the shots for thoughts on how to improve my photography (OK I may put up what I feel are my better shots - but I am still happy to get feedback).

Cheers, Mick

Boy inflation sure is kicking in. 2cents at lunch time and up to 3 cents by dinner

[drifter]

I'm not sure for others, but for myself, I don't browse through individual sections, I only go into the main page and look for the most recent post section on the right. Big thumb up to the forum team who has put in effort to enlarge that section, really love it.

Same here.

I think there are about ten forums too many here and it's too many to browse through regularly .If its not on the front page 99% of the time i don't go looking in those forums .Nerd/pedant, food drink, humour ,and music should all just go in a general forum .Most of those forums hardly move i think because no one posts or goes searching through them every day unless one has been bumped up onto the front page.Same goes for the locales and camera specifics .They get lost in the wash.

[Killakoala]

Instead of a 'Showcase' section, how about an 'I'm ready and willing to hear you say that's shit,' section?

That way i can unapologetically reply to someone, without feeling guilty, 'I can't believe you posted that image in public.'



Seriously, why not have an 'Image Criticism' section and keep the other as an 'Image Review' section, splitting the current section in two.

Image Review
Post your image in here to showcase your skills and ask for peer review of it.

Image Criticism (Maybe Image Critique, but don't make the title too subtle.)
Post in here if you want to hear the truth about your image and tips on ways to make it better. Thick skin needed before posting.

This should alleviate one of the criticism we currently have where ordinary images are not really commented upon, either good or bad, in our efforts to not offend and keep this place harmonious.

My 1 Pence.

EDIT: Just read Drifter's post and maybe reduce the locales section to Aust Eastcoast, Aust Central and Westcoast and maybe an Outside Aust section. Consolidating 7 sections into 3.

[Dargan]

When I think more about this a showcase section is fine but really a limited learning environment for others. It should be there but it will not necessarily improve other members photography. In fact, it is an essential outlet for 'show and tell' type postings, as you are really saying, I am now at this level. I would like to see a posting environment where there is more chance for involvement and interaction. For example, a place where images could be posted for deliberate post processing by others. Some members already have PPOK (Post Processing of my images is OK) I think this would be an interesting comp if for example the mods chose a sample image and provided the Raw file for manipulation. Critical involvement would be ensured. It does take time and commitment however but I think others would learn a lot more from this kind of image posting and grow their knowledge, even if they didn't looking at the results is a learning experience. Isn't that the aim? We all have different amounts of time to devote to this as we are mostly amateurs, so we need to remember that when we see the wide range of commitment evident on this forum. Even though I seem to be starved of time nowadays I am still as interested as the first day I took pictures with the D70 and plan to continue learning.

[macka]

Instead of a 'Showcase' section, how about an 'I'm ready and willing to hear you say that's shit,' section?

I like that; I'm adding that to my sig.

[Cre8tivepixels]

Instead of a 'Showcase' section, how about an 'I'm ready and willing to hear you say that's shit,' section?

ROTFLMAO............nice.
Dan

[sirhc55]

Since Monday of this week there have been 79 threads added to C&C. Of that number 30 asked for C&C and 49 showcased. A higher percentage of C&C posts failed to get any replies over the showcasing threads - maybe there is a message in the details or maybe I’m just anal

[Alpha_7]

Since Monday of this week there have been 79 threads added to C&C. Of that number 30 asked for C&C and 49 showcased. A higher percentage of C&C posts failed to get any replies over the showcasing threads - maybe there is a message in the details or maybe I’m just anal

Nice work Chris, however some people myself included post there with the expectation that C&C is implied regardless if it is said in the post.
But you bring up a very good point, it would help the people really needed C&C but keeping the showcase style posts out of the same section.

[Nnnnsic]

True. I usually expect that CC is a given. If you're putting images up to showcase, then you're likely just trying to boost your ego and not improve your craft.

My take on this is that if you want a showcase, get some webspace or a photo gallery account at somewhere like Flickr or Smugmug and make a link to it in your signature.

Otherwise, deal with the comments and criticism that your image will draw because it's always good to have both positive and negative criticism and it can only make you and your images stronger.

[moz]

Since Monday of this week there have been 79 threads added to C&C. Of that number 30 asked for C&C and 49 showcased.

Are you counting people like me who assumed that the C&C forum was for C&C as showcase? I mentioned that before, but just in case: I always assume that if it's posted here, it's up for discussion.

[sirhc55]

Since Monday of this week there have been 79 threads added to C&C. Of that number 30 asked for C&C and 49 showcased.

Are you counting people like me who assumed that the C&C forum was for C&C as showcase? I mentioned that before, but just in case: I always assume that if it's posted here, it's up for discussion.

Indeed what you say is true re ”it’s up for comment” - but what I was trying to indicate was that of those asking for C&C there was less response than for the obvious ”showcase” pics

[moz]

of those asking for C&C there was less response than for the obvious ”showcase” pics

Yeah, that one is confusing. Maybe people are intimidated by the quality of the critique? Of maybe showcase threads generate more offtopic discussion

[Alpha_7]

Yeah, that one is confusing. Maybe people are intimidated by the quality of the critique? Of maybe showcase threads generate more offtopic discussion

Well if it has gorgeous women in it, particularly semi clad ones the comments seem to increase aswell. But I too have notice a few threads falling by the way side, which is discouraging for those seeking feedback to improve their shots.

[Willy wombat]

The quality and frequency of the critique in C+C section tends to fluctuate. I just figure if no-one comments on an image it is crapola. Its always nice when someone takes time out of their day to give you a hand/advice/critique/suggestion and even just a little encouragement.

I voted yes for a showcase by the way.

[Nnnnsic]

Well often in the shots of women clad in bikini's, the comment is probably more directed at the moment or the subject matter as quite often the shots aren't all that remarkable or special.

This might just be natural male-ness being directed in a thread, mind you, which wouldn't surprise me.

I'll comment on images which strike me as where I feel I have something to add that the person might like. Other times, I'll say something that's fairly critical because I'm hoping it will help the person. It's really dependent on the image and the mood I'm in at the time.

Mind you, you can't post a response to every image.

Not unless you're trying to get your post count up, anyway.

[gstark]

Must be my turn to add a few thoughts to this.

Let me start by saying that I'm not a great fan of the idea of a straight out showcase section, and my reasons will become obvious through this post.

I think that one of the strengths of this forum is the depth of resources and content that we enjoy. We have tutorials you can download, meets and workshops where you can spend time with some of the best in the field (and we are fortunate in that we do have access to some of the very best photographers in the country), and you can be shown, in a very short time, many ways to achieve the goals that you are trying to achieve.

The Image Review and Critique section is, I think, appropriately named, in that it's a place where you may post your images with the expectation that others will review those images, and where appropriate, they can offer suggestions to you about those images.

Now pay attention please - I always choose my words very carefully ... so posting in that section automatically implies that the images may be critiqued. So, there is never a need to ask for critique.

But ... there's never any guarantee that any (every) image will be critiqued, there's no way that we can force people to do that, and we're not about to try. If your image doesn't get comments, accept it as a it being just "how it is". It doesn't necessarily mean that your images are good, or bad, or indeed anything at all. It merely means that nobody has commented on your images; get over it.

So, getting back to the point, the purpose of posting here is to seek comments relating to how you might improve the image. Or change it. Alter the cropping. Whatever.

If you have a problem with people commenting about your images, readjust your attitude: they're talking about your image, not you.

I do have a problem with showcase images - it's never been the intent of this site to serve that purpose. As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm not averse to having a gallery (if we can find some suitable software) and I feel that if people want to showcase their images, then surely their own personal showcase is a more appropriate location for that to occur?

That way they can control how the images are viewd, the sizes, backgrounds, framing, if they want music playing, maybe as a slideshow ...

None of that seems (to me) to be appropriate here.

I also don't see any point having it if it doesn't contain images. I'd almost say that the size restrictions should be relaxed, so we allow images up to 1200 pixels and 500kB. That way it can really be a proper gallery/showcase. Maybe Gary or Leigh can dig through the logs and post stats on what display size people are using (I'm on dual 1200x1600 monitors at both home and work, so bigger sizes work well for me).

Let's say that I accept what you've said in the first two sentences here.

But you come to a dead stop in sentence 3. Why would this forum be a better place for people to showcase their images than their own personal showcases?

Convince me.

And I can foresee some bandwidth issues possibly arising with your suggestion.

Also, consider that we already have galleries for each of the challenges, as well as for our two years worth of PotW winners. FWIW, I might be pursuaded to entertain a gallery of the various AlmostPotW ..

But I see all of this as being gallery, rather than forum, stuff.

it appears that the Image & Critiques section is already being used for showcasing and I think this takes away from people who are posting for genuine feedback

Which is one reason why we have a restriction on the number of images that people may post. I personally don't like that the section is abused, but we cannot police this all that strongly: I might think that somebody is posting a "look at me" image, but my interpretation might well be wrong. I am happy to accept that I'm fallible, and this is a part of the cost.

I would like to see people just prefix their subject with something like: [Showcase] that way, I can decide to skip it and come back to it later.

I don't quite see the point of that, especially given my dislike of the "look at me" posting.

Those with the inclination only to showcase their work should\would probably have the own sites.

Exactly.

When I think more about this a showcase section is fine but really a limited learning environment for others.

And that is my greatest concern here. The way it works now isn't perfect, but I'm not convinced that I've seen anything better in the suggestions thus far.

Here's a thought - we exclude "showcase" images from PotW consideration. Please take that as a serious possible suggestion.

[moz]

Why would this forum be a better place for people to showcase their images than their own personal showcases? And I can foresee some bandwidth issues possibly arising with your suggestion.

My comments were of the form "if you do this, it should be..." (and I'm not convinced that it should be done at all). If it is, I'd definitely like it done somewhere that I can ignore, and in a way that makes it really clear to people who do post there that it's a vanity board, which is why I suggested making comments impossible.

As far as bandwidth, I suggest that image hosting not be provided. Much as with the C&C area, people can post links or embedded images, but the bandwidth for that needs to come from them.

[Onyx]

No, a showcase section is not required. We have our own galleries, some are available for free for those wanting one, that would be perfect to 'showcase' images.

A forum such as this is setup, I would imagine, with the aim of getting people to interact. While it might be fun to view/browse another person's images, it largely takes away the aspect of interaction with others.

I do believe however, the image critique section has issues that may need some addressing. The volume of threads these days, and people (in my mind) circumventing the max images per thread rule by starting multiple threads, which in effect competes with other users' threads/images and basically cluttering up the surfing expereince for the people who are keen to view the threads, but are under time or bandwidth constraints (ie. myself)...

And wouldn't it be unique to have anonymous image postings? Honest critique without viewer bias, or perpception of the poster's past work(s) affecting the viewer's attitudes. Newbies treated the same as old timers. As mentioned in this thread: http://www.dslrusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=25076 many respond with prejudice when it comes to critique. I believe if genuine critique were sought, anonymity would go some way towards removing these viewer prejudices.

[sirhc55]

And wouldn't it be unique to have anonymous image postings? Honest critique without viewer bias, or perpception of the poster's past work(s) affecting the viewer's attitudes. Newbies treated the same as old timers. As mentioned in this thread: http://www.dslrusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=25076 many respond with prejudice when it comes to critique. I believe if genuine critique were sought, anonymity would go some way towards removing these viewer prejudices.

Excellent suggestion

[gstark]

And wouldn't it be unique to have anonymous image postings? Honest critique without viewer bias, or perpception of the poster's past work(s) affecting the viewer's attitudes. Newbies treated the same as old timers. As mentioned in this thread: http://www.dslrusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=25076 many respond with prejudice when it comes to critique. I believe if genuine critique were sought, anonymity would go some way towards removing these viewer prejudices.

Excellent sugestion

Absobloodylutely.

Now to work out how to implement this ...

[Alpha_7]

Hmmm I like the idea of this too, and it's not dis-similar to how the challenges work, they are annoymous until the results are revealed. In theory it would work well, but I'd like to see it in pratice first.. perhaps it can supplement the existing system, where if you really are after honest critique you drop it into the critique corner, where you recieved unbiased responses.

[Big V]

I think if Gary is generous enough to host the site, then ultimately it should be his decision - if we dont like it, we can always vote with our feet.. At this point in time the system works as intended!

[rooboy]

Absobloodylutely.

Now to work out how to implement this ...

I love the idea, as long as it is optional. While anonymity (say that word 10 times after a few drinks ) could be good C&C wise, it also depersonalises the forum. Ultimately, it may turn the section into a guessing game as to who posted an image, particularly after group/big events - I'm thinking Adelaide zoo meets, WSID race days etc.

[Nnnnsic]

The suggestion is an interesting one, but I don't think people choose not to comment on images based on the user that posted them in the first place.

[macka]

Something about this anonymity idea really irks me.

Surely it's hard enough to establish an online community without making everybody faceless and nameless? Critique is great but so is social interaction and friendship and just learning how to get along with each other!

I would be very unhappy to see this imposed without any choice.

[Nnnnsic]

Kris, I'd never let that happen.

[Alpha_7]

Since we are throwing different ideas around, what if at the end of the week a collection of images that recieved no C&C from anyone are reposted (you could have a set number if you like) asking the community for feedback good or bad on the images. I'd could see it as a potential extension of POTW selection... Every tuesday we have, Here is the POTW, isn't great and here are 4 images that have been neglected this week, lets help our the photographers and share our opinions ?
This isn't to adress the showboating/showcasing, but rather the people that have their shots routinely ignored (more often then not newer members). We often see people in POTW threads saying, oh, thanks I missed this shot... would it be nice if they were also saying.. wow I didn't get to critique that shot first time round, but ...blah blah blah.. ??

[sirhc55]

Something about this anonymity idea really irks me.

Surely it's hard enough to establish an online community without making everybody faceless and nameless? Critique is great but so is social interaction and friendship and just learning how to get along with each other!

I would be very unhappy to see this imposed without any choice.

Although we know you as Kris, who is Macka, Glamy, Rooboy, sirhc55 et al., this is a form of anonymity in itself. Being able to critique pics without knowing the poster would produce a more balanced and non-impassioned response.

This is already a well established community that is still growing and the interaction, friendship and knowledge would in no way be affected by this impost. I personally would love to make comments such as ”this is a snapshot” or ”this is a brilliant use of light and composition” without taking into account the psychological restraints on knowing the poster. Whether we admit to it or not, we all have restraints when it comes to making comments that involve people we may dislike.

It would be a simple matter at the end of a day or two for the poster of the image(s) to make comment on the replies. It would also pique our curiosity to try and ascertain who the poster was - similar to the challenges

[phillipb]

If it aint broke don't fix it.

[gstark]

Absobloodylutely.

Now to work out how to implement this ...

I love the idea, as long as it is optional.

I have no plans to change anything that's already there in this regard, and there is no way I would make this compulsory.


Craig's suggestion if of merit too, but because the images in question have already been posted, there is no anonimity left.

I personally would love to make comments such as ”this is a snapshot” or ”this is a brilliant use of light and composition” without taking into account the psychological restraints on knowing the poster.

This is where I see the beauty of this, but it imposes some technical and logistical challenges upon me to implement. That also makes it attractive.

At this time thopugh, I must say not only have I not seen any compelling reasons to implement a showcase section to the forum, the consensus opinions posted here do not seem to be favour of this. I have not yet looked at the poll results, btw.

[Aussie Dave]

An interesting topic.

I agree that a "showcase area" is not required. That is what personal websites are for....and forum members can (as always) post a link to their images.

At times, I have posted images that have not received any (or very little) C&C, which happens and will always happen. I only have internet access at work at present & when I visit the site on a Monday, I'm looking at about 200-400 posts to catch up on from the weekend (with god knows how many image posts). People have lives outside this forum (or at least should have ) and images that don't receive C&C are just unlucky.

As Leigh mentioned, which I agree with, I don't feel that C&C is only given to friends or people that are liked. If someone has something to contribute, they will. Many people will view the images but some may not know what improvements to suggest or may not have the inclination (at the time) to make a post.

I'm sure most of us would appreciate one person giving harsh but constructive C&C instead of eighteen people all saying how nice the image is (which is great to hear, but it's not really constructive critisism...IMO).

I know in my mind, being able to visit a page of thumbnails which showed that last XX (insert relevant number here) "image review posts" would be very helpful. I could then scan through the thumbnails and click on the one's I thought were interesting and I wanted to see more of.
Perhaps this would make it easier for members to view past images and catch up on previous postings....which I feel may be one of the main contributors for the lack of C&C given to some images.....not the fact that they are just being ignored.

After all, how many times have the words "Great POTW. I missed this first time around !" been posted ?
If this alone isn't telling us something, what is ?!?

My $0.02 PS. Perhaps it might also be an idea for those posting images for critique to give the readers something to go on.
What was your intention for taking the shot ? Was it a snapshot or a shot you tried to setup for 5 minutes ?
Were you trying something new perhaps ?

By posting a lone image, the reader does not know what the photgrapher was thinking (which IMO is required to give relevant C&C). If I, as a reader, know what you were trying to accomplish when taking the image, I can then offer "relevant" comments, instead of making assumptions and giving C&C that may not necassarily be relevant....

[gstark]

As Leigh mentioned, which I agree with, I don't feel that C&C is only given to friends or people that are liked.

Leigh's point, which I neglected to comment on earlier, is very well made. I agree wholly with what he said, but the ability to posts images anonymously can certainly provide a way to either prove or disprove that line of thought.

I know in my mind, being able to visit a page of thumbnails which showed that last XX (insert relevant number here) "image review posts" would be very helpful.

This is about the third interesting suggestion that has come out of this thread.

Again, this presents some technical challenges for me, but I do believe that this has more than a bit of merit.

Thank you.

After all, how many times have the words "Great POTW. I missed this first time around !" been posted ?
If this alone isn't telling us something, what is ?!?

Exactly.