What do you think of these studio lights?

[robster]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Fotogen-StudioBl ... dZViewItem

or

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/New-600W-Studio- ... dZViewItem

I'll be shooting with my EOS30D doing fashion and hair shots.
I'm new to studio work and wonder if they're big enough (300) and if they're going to be quality enough. For the price though, if they do the job for two years I'd be happy...



Rob

[tbgphoto]

It's a case of you get what you pay for, I've used these sort of units in the past and there "OK" but they don't have the sort of reliability you need for pro work.

Have a look at http://www.alienbees.com, they are more expensive, but resonable priced and very good quality, a far better option in the long term.

[Reschsmooth]

I have a similar but lower power set to the Ozplaza ones you linked to:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/New-110W-Studio-Flash-Light-Package-Set-Accessories_W0QQitemZ290079076920QQihZ019QQcategoryZ30088QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

They are good, for the money spent, and, if the reliability of the lights aren't there, at least you get the light stands, brollies, etc for $300!

I have no idea how powerful or not these would be in a larger studio environment, but as an entry, I have been happy with them.

A softbox would be nice as opposed to relying on the brollies.

P

[Hudo]

Very true you do get what you pay for. I think it was your first link the mono block is the same as one I just purchased recently as a cheap additional light (300W). So far after 6 weeks use and I guess some 3000 strikes it's done fine.

My advice is to buy one good / better one rather than 2 cheap ones. Then build on it as your experience and funds grow.

Mark

[xorl]

I've been hunting around to find some detail on these flashes, but aside from some brief positive mentions on DSLRusers (one two), I haven't seen anything.

Does anyone have experience with the 300W and/or 600W units from OzPlaza/EnvisageIT? What tradeoffs do these units make to bring the cost down?
Eg:
- How reliable Is the slave flash sensor?
- How consistent is the flash output?
- How consistent Is the colour temperature?
- Are they prone to breaking?
..or do they work fine but leave you with a general feeling that the build is cheap?

I've got some projects coming up that will benefit from some extra lights so I'm currently considering my options. Unless these lights have some major flaws, they appear to be quite cost effective.

[Yi-P]

I've been hunting around to find some detail on these flashes, but aside from some brief positive mentions on DSLRusers (one two), I haven't seen anything.

Does anyone have experience with the 300W and/or 600W units from OzPlaza/EnvisageIT? What tradeoffs do these units make to bring the cost down?
Eg:
- How reliable Is the slave flash sensor?
- How consistent is the flash output?
- How consistent Is the colour temperature?
- Are they prone to breaking?
..or do they work fine but leave you with a general feeling that the build is cheap?

I've got some projects coming up that will benefit from some extra lights so I'm currently considering my options. Unless these lights have some major flaws, they appear to be quite cost effective.

I don't have the 300W/600W units, but the rather cheap 110W units just to get a taste on studio strobes.

The flash unit itself, it seems pretty well built, tho the mounting head for it is quite plasticky and doesn't feel very tight. Power is not too much, good enough for indoor use with small objects, haven't tried with portraits yet but can do a good job if used on full power with a softbox.

The light stands are massive, big and heavy. They weight approx 3kg each and it does feel very sturdy, my only complain here is that they're not very portable because of the size and weight. Other than that, its really good stands, does seem to take a lot of weight even on a 500W unit on top.

Colour temperature so far, I still have to test it further on, but it seems reasonable on 5500K - 5700K manual WB.

These might not be the strobes for you if you depend on them in making a living. I find them quite acceptable for my experimenter strobes. If I were to use these every day heavily, I will buy something of higher quality.

Disclaimers: Above all, its all IMHO...

[!~DeViNe~DaRkNeSs~!]

i am another with the 110w setup...has done me great...im just using the corner of a room as my studio and for that these honestly couldnt be better.....
heres an example of a shot taken with them......lens 50mm 1.8

[xorl]

Thanks for your thoughts Yi-P. I'm not looking to make money from them at the moment so they seem like a good fit. Especially when similar deals with more professional strobes start at 3 times the cost..

[xorl]

i am another with the 110w setup...has done me great...im just using the corner of a room as my studio and for that these honestly couldnt be better.....
heres an example of a shot taken with them......lens 50mm 1.8

Excellent.. With the full / 3 quarter length portraits, roughly what aperture can you get on full power? (with or without modifiers).

[robster]

Thanks for all these ideas, I'm keen to see the answers to others questions here also, it's a great discussion.

I can't access the alienbees site for now, some kind of problem, so these are looking like the ones:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/New-600W-Studio- ... dZViewItem

I'll keep watching this thread with interest,

Rob

[robster]

[/quote]
Excellent.. With the full / 3 quarter length portraits, roughly what aperture can you get on full power? (with or without modifiers).[/quote]
I'm interested in that too

Rob

[tbgphoto]

I have used similar to these units, I still have a 300W I bought a couple of years ago and it still works fine.

It really depends what you want to do with them and what you think you might be aiming for in the future. If you are only trying to get a feel for studio flashes then I would say go for something like this, but don't spend $800, you should be able to pick up a useable unit for under $200 and a few extra bucks for a softbox and a stand.

If you have thoughts of using them for professional purposes it might be better to think about something like Alien Bees, you can pick up a starter kit from them, delivered to Australia for around the $800 mark and the quality of them is far better than the eBay units. This would give you something that you can build on as you need to.

[sirhc55]

In reply to your PM Mark - I find the 110W units (and the whole package) excellent for what I do - pack shots. I have not used them for any form of portraiture but would assume that they would not be that powerful, but I could be wrong. As someone has already mentioned a soft box might give them enough scope for usability. I have used them in conjunction with the SB800 and SU800 (as a trigger) and also the SBR200’s. For what I do I’m impressed.

[robster]

OK, so if I were to go the Alienbee products, would the http://alienbees.com/digi.html digibee package be any good? (upgrading it to the B800 lights...

It appears it will cost between AUD$950 - $1000 to get them here.

[xorl]

I was part way through replying to this thread when I discovered a new Alien Bee thread. I've put the post over there..

[xorl]

I've been doing some digging to as much information as possible on the OzPlaza / EnvisageIT flashes so I can try to form an educated opinion.

Here's a table I've put together comparing them to a similar Bowens light:

Code: Select all

Brand                           Bowens          Fotoblitz / Li Shuai?
Model                           Espirit Gemini  L-300A               L-600F?
Stored Energy                   500Ws           300Ws                600Ws
Guide number (m) [1]            79.8            55                   72
Recycle (min-full power, secs)  ? - 1.54        0.8 - 2.5            0.8 - 3
Flash Duration (t=0.5 sec)      1/925           1/800[2]             1/800[2]
Flash Power Variation           1 - 1/32        1 - 1/32             1 - 1/32
Stepless                        Yes             Yes                  Yes
Model Lamp Variability          1 - 1/32        Off,=Strobe,Full[3]  Off,=Strobe,Full[3]
Modelling Lamp                  250W,275W[4]    150W Halo            250W Halo
Colour Temperature              5600+/-300K     5500+/-              5600+/-
Ready Light Indication          @100% charge    Yes                  Yes
Audible Ready Confirmation      Yes             Yes                  Yes
User Replaceable Flash Tube     Yes             Yes                  Yes
Built in Slave Cell             Yes             Yes                  Yes
Reflector Mount                 S-Type Bayonet  S-Type Bayonet[5]    S-Type Bayonet[5]
Sync Voltage                    5V              12V[6]               12V[6]


? Couldn't find or unsure about the data, or an educated guess
[1] Guide numbers cannot simply be compared - use as a rough guide only, if at all
[2] I couldn't find whether or not these values are for t=0.5sec, I'd assume so
[3] I'm guessing that the stobes have a "modelling light on full" option from the photos
[4] The recommended modelling lights are 275w Photoflood, 250w Halostar
[5] I'm guessing that S-Type Bayonet is correct. They are listed as supporting "Bowens" attachments.
[6] Sync voltage varies across the specs for the same unit. I found a source suggesting that it is actually under 5V

Disclaimer: I'm not claiming the table is correct - I haven't seen any of the units.

Obviously there is a lot more involved when comparing two flashes (other features, reliability, consistency, ...). I've only included details where I have them for all the units.
Based on the specs Bowens offers a better flash, but the OzPlaza lights still seem quite useful (despite their limitations - recycle time,..).

A lot of eBay flashes are seriously limited in some way (2 stop range, not stepless,..), however these flashes appear to provide a decent level of control. Given that basic kits with the Bowens lights cost over 3 times as much, it's making me think fairly hard about what OzPlaza has to offer..

Does anyone know of any reasons to avoid these flashes? Eg:
- Prone to failure
- Significant variation in output between flashes
- Significant variation in colour temperature between flashes
- Uncalibrated power levels
- Slave cell fails to trigger sometimes
- ... ?

Edit: Modelling light can be turned off.
Edit: Cleaned up sync voltage and colour temperature. The following links seem to confirm what the "official" specs should be:
http://www.wzqh.com/english/product/dis ... pro_id=307
http://www.wzqh.com/english/product/dis ... pro_id=300

[rooboy]

The Bowens have another advantage in that they can be run from a battery pack for location work . If you're using the modelling lamps, they give you control over whether the lamp is active during the exposure as well.

My work owns ~60 of the Gemini 500 monoblocs, used with the standard 60cm Redwing softbox. I can't speak highly enough about the quality of these units. Some of them fired 30,000 times at near-full power within a 2 month period, and we didn't have a single problem aside from the occasional blown fuse. Highly recommended

Obviously they're much more expensive, but may well be a worthwhile investment. They will run for years, and unlike some cheap Chinese electronics from eBay, it's easy to source replacement parts as they're distributed through CR Kennedy.

If you want a cheap kit, I know that Ted's on Pitt St Sydney were selling an Elinchrom kit (2 x 400Ws head, brollies, softboxes, stands, power & sync cables) for around $1600.

[xorl]

If you're using the modelling lamps, they give you control over whether the lamp is active during the exposure as well.

These flashes can turn off the modelling light as well. I've updated the table to reflect that.

My work owns ~60 of the Gemini 500 monoblocs, used with the standard 60cm Redwing softbox. I can't speak highly enough about the quality of these units.

I've worked with Bowens 250 / 500 monoblocs before - they are very nice. For my non-professional use they are a bit of a stretch. These lights can be replaced at under a 1/4 of the cost of a Bowens light.

If you want a cheap kit, I know that Ted's on Pitt St Sydney were selling an Elinchrom kit (2 x 400Ws head, brollies, softboxes, stands, power & sync cables) for around $1600.

Wow, that sounds like a reasonable deal (but still a bit pricey for my budget and light use). Unfortunately I'm Adelaide based..

[Yi-P]

What is the type of photographs you want to take with the strobes?

Say, small, still objects... or portraits at full body length? Portraits at half or quarter body length?

[xorl]

For the small stuff I just use an SB-800 with various modifiers. I'm looking to be able to light full length portraits, maybe 2-3 people with some light modifiers.

[robster]

What is the type of photographs you want to take with the strobes?

Say, small, still objects... or portraits at full body length? Portraits at half or quarter body length?

Full length portraits, with up to a couple of people.... Mostly head and bust shots though, single person, but they have to be able to do a full length scene shot...

Rob

[mR_CaESaR]

At the request of xorl, I'm replying to this thread

I myself have the Ronza's (EnvisageIT) ebay twin studio package, for what its worth, it does the job, the package contains 2 brollies, 2 light stands, 2 300ws units and a softbox.

I haven't really had much time playing with the studio but for the price, i think they do the job fine.

I'm no studio expert, but these lights have gotten me by so far. I don't have many shots from the studio as my main subject so far has been a mannequin (only subject that doesn't complain) and i've been mainly just trying to get the hang of everything. So far i've been happy.

I am slowly expanding everything and just this week, i thought of splurging to pretty much a full blown studio, ordered my background stands, seamless paper, various accessories (snoot, barn doors with gels and honey combs, background reflector, beauty dish, refelctor holder) and two more 300ws strobes for background and hair light(from mrstudio, seemed to be very similar to what i have, but i'll find out when i get them and see how they compare to the EnvisageIT).

The strobes are probably not bowens, and i'm a firm believer in you get what you pay for, but after seeing A LOT of studio stores in shopping centres, 90% of them use one form of chinese branded strobe, wether its fotogen, qihe, fotodiox, etc they pretty much come from the same factory from china.

I don't have the link with me at the moment, but when you look at the strobes from dragonimage.com.au, studiolight.com.au, EnvisageIT, ozplaza and a lot of the ebay ones, most of them look very similar to the chinese manufacturer i've got a link for (again, i'll update this post accordingly)

That being said, if you can afford bowens, by all means go for it, but for the price of ozplaza's 600ws strobes, it seems mighty tempting to go for ozplaza as oppose to bowens, they both take S mounts so accessories won't be a problem.

One thing that has been mentioned is portability, the Gemini's has a powerpack that makes the strobes extremly portable, however if that is not an issue, if its just for the home and portraits, then i don't see the need for the bowens kit (haha i suppose that can also be said about L series lenses and high end cameras)

If you guys have any questions regarding the flashes let me know.

I really wish firefox worked at home, i still get banned

[mR_CaESaR]

Alright here are some links i found during the time i was researching about these strobes.

- Review here
- Looks like most of the chinese made strobes are distributed or come out of this place

[xorl]

Thanks, those links are very interesting. They help confirm the specs that I've seen floating around. The review also has some good (but basic) information on flash consistency.

[Ronza]

Whoah no kidding - just stumbled across this (haven't been on for a while) and the envisage-au ID is indeed my stuff!

Obviously extremely biased here since its my stuff (hehe) but I'll attempt to offer an insight into the products. Impressed with the amount of research you've done Mark, you probably could rattle off the specs better than I could. The spec sheet on the 300W flashes are straight from the manufacturer (not the link supplied either, I imagine Qihe rebadge them as well), doing extended product stuff with them myself (repetitive product shots designed to look the same) over about 300 pieces of wood - the difference in colour temperature was minimal/not noticeable. Quality wise, its a relatively solid unit - fan cooled, metal casing, dust mesh over the air intakes. As an analogy for the Canon users, this'd be like the 50mm f/1.4 in terms of where it sits between the really cheap and plasticy units and the high end Bowns/Gemini "L" stuff.

In regard to a few of the notes you've made on the spec sheet...

[3] - thats correct, you can have the modelling lamp on full or off or have it work variably with the flash power.
[5] - yes, the supplied reflector is an S-Type Bayonet. Softboxes that I sell (which are also available in 80x120 now. These would be more suitable for full length stuff you've mentioned robster) mount onto the body via 4 screws. )
[6] - haven't tested it myself, these things are generally better to "overquote" though. Only issue I've ever had with the triggering on my 20D / 1Ds / 1D2 has been when the sync cord isnt attached properly and the strobe will pop.

- How reliable Is the slave flash sensor?
- Are they prone to breaking?

Haven't tried these outdoors myself but indoors, they'll pop with the lowest setting of my 550EX aimed behind me away from the strobes. They'll also be triggered by a PnS preflash.

I've had two DOA strobes over the last 6 months, to offer an idea, 8 strobes have been despatched since the 1st of May. They are all tested by the manufacturer before it leaves the warehouse. All the kits are also supplied with Australian AC power cords, 2x modeling bulbs (per head) and sync cords (one per head). Warranty is handled locally, simply swap it over with replacement stock.

I might have to stop myself before I cross the line too much for commercial advertising but be sure of discounts if you're OCAU/DSLRUsers heh. Further to that, Mark, if you want to actually check these out (or any other gear) in person, give them a go yourself, don't hesitate to shoot me an email/PM/eBay Message.

[mR_CaESaR]

yeah i'm pretty impressed with the amount of research too, i thought i looked into it bad, you've done well

I think i scared ronza when i told him which factory it came from

Ronnie, you need to start brining in accessories!!! Honey comb grids that go into the refelctor, and the globes

You need the spare globes

[Ronza]

Hehe, theres a plethora of spare globes available.

[xorl]

Thanks for posting Ronza, I might have to take you up on that offer .

[gstark]

I might have to stop myself before I cross the line too much for commercial advertising but be sure of discounts if you're OCAU/DSLRUsers heh. Further to that, Mark, if you want to actually check these out (or any other gear) in person, give them a go yourself, don't hesitate to shoot me an email/PM/eBay Message.

And if you're willing to formalise the discount offer, please drop me a PM, and I'll give you access to the Members' Discounts area where you may make a post describing your offer.

Cheerz.

[Hudo]

Hi Mark,

Sorry for a late reply to your PM life got a little crazy the past few days. My 250W unit was purchased from Dragon Image. This mono block was not the cheapest they had but mid priced. We needed a third low powered mono block and did not want to pay the $1600 plus as we did with our other 2, which are 800W & 1200W. Our unit looks the same but the name they market it under is different. I guess same factory in China with several suppliers in Australia.

Our experiences so far after 2 months use.

Recycle Time - In the studio shooting Glam & Portraits we don't need anything fantastic compared to say shooting stage events with a SB800. So far the unit while slower than our others is still suitable for application.

Triggering Sensor - I got the unit home and thought DOH I forgot something. We use a wireless trigger on the other 2 units. So using the built in sensor was the go. It works fine most of the time. When using a snoot and only one other mono block it won't fire but I guess that's understandable.

Output & Col - Seems to be constant. We have had no issues.

Working Temp environment - This is something over looked by many. We have a small home studio with central heating. Models in next to something need to be kept warm. I find my other 2 lights struggle with this. In that with the modeling lamps on and a warm studio they can start to flicker and or over heat. This 250W unit so far has performed well but again it's low power, no modeling lamp on and no soft box.

Useage - the small poer output does not make it suitable for use with a softbox not if you want to shoot above f4 and or do more than a head shot. I have not used a umbrella on it I have mailny been using col gels to light rear walls or a honeycomb in the barn doors kit that we purchased seperatly.

I hope this helps?

Mark

[mR_CaESaR]

Got a few more studio stuff yesterday and this is one of the first shots from it.

My only willing live subject to pose and this is a totally random shot, he didn't prepare he didn't do anything, i just grabbed him from the lounge room and asked him for a few shots

Studio lighting is tricky, but i'm always willing to give it a go.

Set up is 2 lights so far, key was with a softbox, fill was a silver reflector

As for PS, slight curves, and levels + sharpening/resize (i'm still learning the art of PS)

[sirhc55]

Very nice

[xorl]

Thanks for your comments Hudo.

I had an opportunity to use these flashes on Saturday (thanks Ronza!). Here's what I found:
- The flash output seems quite consistent. The power output levels seem accurate (1, 1/2, 1/4,..).
- The recycle time is faster than the documented specs. Maybe a little over a second - but i didn't measure it .
- The optical slave isn't as sensitive as the Bowens that I'm used to - maybe about half as sensitive. I wouldn't expect this to cause any real problems tho'.
- The build is fairly solid, probably above what you would expect given the cost. There are some rough edges, but nothing that impacts on functionality. Eg, the reflector requires a little wiggling to attach it.

I think for anyone looking to set up a cheap studio, the kit package (2x flash, 2x stands, 2x umbrella,..) needs to be considered.

[mR_CaESaR]

I think for anyone looking to set up a cheap studio, the kit package (2x flash, 2x stands, 2x umbrella,..) needs to be considered.

Could not agree with you more

I think these are our alien bees equivalent, the bonus is, its a bowens mount

The one problem i have though, is i don't have enough room in my garage hahahaha, i'm wanting an urge to go for more lights

Another plug for ronnie, you can't go wrong with these lights, and his fotogen gear, they are by far the best lightstands i've purchased (although i've only purchased ebay and cheap ones from bhphoto, its definitely no manfrotto, but the saying goes, 'you get what you pay for')

[Hudo]

Mark,

Glad you got to play with them and what you found is essentially what i have experienced.

Mark