Bondi camera ban fails.

[brembo]

News Article in todays Daily Telegraph (couldn't find web link)

Beach camera ban fails.

A CONTROVERSIAL bid to ban cameras at council-controlled change rooms - and even possibly beaches - across the Waverly Council area has been defeated seven votes to five.

ALP councillor George Newhouse moved to motion on Tuesday night, in an attempt to crack down on perverts targeting women and children.

He first flagged a stronger version of the plan last month, suggesting a ban at parts of Bondi Beach. It sparky outcry, with parents protesting they would not be able to photograph their own families.

[sirhc55]

Common sense prevails - thank God. The masses should not have to suffer because of a few sickos

[birddog114]

George Newhouse , I think he's the ones! and too "gung ho"
I don't know : does he has any relationship with the guy Danny Newhouse,
Nikon On Broadway?
He's gone too far!!!!!!

[MattC]

Good news.

If they had got the ban through that would have been just one more nail in the coffin of our freedom. It is good to see some councils have people with a little common sense.

Cheers

Matt

[Onyx]

We should celebrate by holding a meet at Bondi beach!

[birddog114]

We should celebrate by holding a meet at Bondi beach!

Will we invite George Newhouse and his party for the model shoot? and he's one of the model

I wish our forum has someone work in the Waverley Council and send hin this link, he may interested!

[Killakoala]

Thank goodness for that.

The majority finally has a victory.

Now i can finish my Sydney Beaches Panoramas without fear of prejudice and sharp rocks.

[Matt. K]

In some muslim countries it is forbidden for a man to gaze or look upon any women who is not a member of his family. I think Mr Newhouse was trying to take us down that path. Some people see evil everywhere...but it resides in their own minds.

[Nnnnsic]

I like the idea of a meet at Bondi Beach... we could just walk down.

[birddog114]

I like the idea of a meet at Bondi Beach... we could just walk down.

Wait until Gary back and we organize a day!
Perhaps pano shooting or landscaping workshop!
Do we have to inform the local police station and get the Waverley Council approval?

[Nnnnsic]

I'm not sure if we have to, but seeing the amount of lenses we bring with us, it's probably a nice courtesy to let them know that we'd be out there and that we're not shooting photos of women-who-are-committing-crimes-by-having-their-tops-off.

[birddog114]

I'm not sure if we have to, but seeing the amount of lenses we bring with us, it's probably a nice courtesy to let them know that we'd be out there and that we're not shooting photos of women-who-are-committing-crimes-by-having-their-tops-off.

Please check and revert

[Nnnnsic]

We tell them that because in theory, it's true,

Mind you,I can't govern what our members take photos of. And while anyone has the right to ask you, they have no legal right to make you show them.

[birddog114]

We tell them that because in theory, it's true,

Mind you,I can't govern what our members take photos of. And while anyone has the right to ask you, they have no legal right to make you show them.

We should have posters around the beach on the shooting day with the words: "No tops off please! we're in training"

[BBJ]

HAHAHAHA I can see the Headlines now "Camera Buffs Hit Bondi With A Vengeance" LOL

[gstark]

I'm not sure if we have to, but seeing the amount of lenses we bring with us, it's probably a nice courtesy to let them know that we'd be out there and that we're not shooting photos of women-who-are-committing-crimes-by-having-their-tops-off.

I really can't be bothered.

And George Newhouse can go and ....

Ok ... I'll be nice.

[gstark]

HAHAHAHA I can see the Headlines now "Camera Buffs Hit Bondi With A Vengeance" LOL

That's almost worth talking to the media about. Get ACA or some other tabloid pseudo-news show down there, with George, and show him just how bloody stupid he really is.

[birddog114]

HAHAHAHA I can see the Headlines now "Camera Buffs Hit Bondi With A Vengeance" LOL

That's almost worth talking to the media about. Get ACA or some other tabloid pseudo-news show down there, with George, and show him just how bloody stupid he really is.

It's a politician job!

[fozzie]

Gary,

HAHAHAHA I can see the Headlines now "Camera Buffs Hit Bondi With A Vengeance" LOL

That's almost worth talking to the media about. Get ACA or some other tabloid pseudo-news show down there, with George, and show him just how bloody stupid he really is.

Next time you go to Bondi beach you had better leave your D70 and 80-400VR at home just in case somebody is not fully clad. .

Cheerio,

[gstark]

Let them try to tell me I'm behavcing offensively.

Er, moreso than I normally am, that is.

[phillipb]

That's almost worth talking to the media about. Get ACA or some other tabloid pseudo-news show down there, with George, and show him just how bloody stupid he really is.

Just think, with our new banner in the background showing our web address, we should get another influx of about 100 new members

[timbo]

As Leyton said, "come on!"

Looking forward to meeting some more members on our home turf...

[Nnnnsic]

Just think, with our new banner in the background showing our web address, we should get another influx of about 100 new members

10% wondering if D70 is a new TV show of sorts, 25% knowing what a D70 is, and the rest looking for amateur voyeuristic porn.

[timbo]

Where's David Hasselhoff when you need him? Or Pammy for that matter??

[Nnnnsic]

Attempting to revive their careers.

[Killakoala]

Attempting to revive their careers

Performing at the Rooty Hill RSL????

[gstark]

Attempting to revive their careers.

Which careers might those be?

[birddog114]

Attempting to revive their careers.

Which careers might those be?

Get a job at local council

[sirhc55]

Well it finally happened!

Went to Newcastle this morning with my son and ended up at Charlestown Shopping Mall. Walked around inside for about 2 hours with my D70 slung over the shoulder - no problem.

Went outside for a puff and was approached by security telling me to put the camera away as what I was doing was illegal!! I knew what he was talking about but acted dumb and asked why there were no signs up to advise people of this and his answer was - this is private property and we do not need to put up signs! He then went on to say that people within the mall with cameras might be perverts. He also stated that the shops would object to me taking photos if there logos were within the image. He also stated that the centre had the right to prosecute me for carrying a camera within their precinct.

I for one do not condone the actions of perverts but to be labelled this way just for carrying a camera is beyond the pale and is beginning to make this society just as bad as that of Germany in the 30’s.

The joy of owning and using a camera for the purpose of capturing images for posterity is becoming as bad as being a smoker, if not worse.

[Link]

Hey Chris,

That's very sad what happened at the mall. I have seen signs"no photos" in the large Westfield malls but I had no idea security would approach someone for only carrying a camera! I seriously doubt what he told you about prosecution provided you didn't take pictures. Let's hope it was the act of a dumb, overzealous security guard.

Link.

[birddog114]

I've been down that road before last Sept once I were in Westfield Shopping Mall Miranda, I also had the same question:

- Where's the sign " No photography allowed"

No way you can't tell people, you're doing the wrong thing without any warning or prohibited sign.

Go to Darling Harbour Shopping Mall, there you'll see many P&S, SLR & DSLR camera around people's neck and no one said a damm word!

All the security guys are just over-react, they can't do anything to you honestly! what about mobile phone camera? do they stop people bring their mobile phone inside Westfield or any shopping mall?

[Onyx]

There are two distinct but linked issues here - a ban on cameras, or a ban on photography. I can understand the 'mall toughies' placing restriction on photography, as they instigate the rule with the intention of preventing shop display copyright violations; perceived public safety, etc. but how can they ban cameras? Cameras are not illegal to posess in any state of Australia, they do not endanger anyone's safety or infringe on anyone's wellbeing when they're being carried from one place to the next.

As is the case these days, mobile phones have inbuilt cameras, and no doubt they're used for "illegal" photographic purposes... if the mall goons really wanted to enforce the "no photography" rule for the sake of public safety or whatever reasons they can pull from their arse, they should concentrate on that aspect and hassle anyone carrying or using a mobile phone in the mall (incidently - isn't it considered rude and a public discourtesy to be walking around talking aloud and not pay attention to the real world?!) Having a big obvious camera merely makes you the targetted scapegoat. Well, at least you boosted a security guard's ego for a moment... having failed at any other career, their ego's need all the boosting they can get.

[gstark]

Chris,

He then went on to say that people within the mall with cameras might be perverts.

At that point you had him.

He as good as accused you of being a pervert, and you should have nailed him to the wall with that statenent.

"You're suggesting that I'm a pervert? Please immediately call the police and your supervisor; I will not stand for you making such baseless accusations".

[fozzie]

Please tell me, is there something in the water they drink at the Bondi Council Chambers . This is getting totally out of hand. Or is there more to it ie. ego etc .

Cheerio,

[sirhc55]

I would call it extreme paranoia - wherever you go today there seems to be a reason for us not to exist.

Going on what was said to me in Charlestown I would assume that when I take a pic that has any form of shop within the image I could be liable to prosecution, or any child, or any woman, or any gay man or woman, any hetrosexual, any mum or dad, any car, etc etc etc

It’s all bloody madness and I am of the opinion that ACA or John Laws etc should be involved to open this whole subject to public debate because I know what the public would say - but then again we have no say over the powers to be!!!!

[Killakoala]

I'm wondering if there's a photo shop in the mall how would it's customers feel if they step outside the shop to 'trial' their prospective new P&S and then to have the 'goons' tell them they can't take a picture, or even step outside the shop with a camera. How would the shop owners feel about that? How would they get their new camera back to the car? In a brown paper bag???

Interesting situation we have here....

I am thinking that if you are ever asked to do this then perhaps it would be advisable to ask to be escorted to see the centre management so you can be shown where in the mall security policy it is written down that you can't carry a camera around with you.

[Matt. K]

Let's be quite clear about this ladies and gentlemen....You cannot be prosecuted for taking pictures inside a shopping mall! You may be asked to leave....you may be directed not to take pictures....but you cannot be prosecuted or focibly removed from the mall. Security will have to ring the police and they may remove you at the request of the manager....not at the request of the security guard. And if you are taking pictures you may not be forcibly prevented from taking pictures. The goons will try and bluff you down....but if they manhandle you they are commiting a crime. Be strong of heart and never forget...this is a free country...not an Islamic police state.

[birddog114]

Let's be quite clear about this ladies and gentlemen....You cannot be prosecuted for taking pictures inside a shopping mall! You may be asked to leave....you may be directed not to take pictures....but you cannot be prosecuted or focibly removed from the mall. Security will have to ring the police and they may remove you at the request of the manager....not the at the request of the security guard. And if you are taking pictures you may not be forcibly prevented from taking pictures. The goons will try and bluff you down....but if they manhandle you they are commiting a crime. Be strong of heart and never forget...this is a free country...not an Islamic police state.

Exactly, what I've been told by my lawyer after the incident last year at Miranda Shopping Mall, I consulted my lawyer and she advised me about my rights inside the shopping mall same as other Security guys wrong doing! They are showing off their badge "Security" to their citizens and did not have their rights in forcing or manhandling, except the boys in blue, if we commited any crimes in their territory.

[mudder]

The fact that you're confronted like that in a public mall simply for having a camera over your shoulder is crazy, what's the difference between carrying a camera in a public mall and a public street?

I shudder to think what's next...

[sirhc55]

May I just say one thing - I was not inside the mall when approached, I was outside having a cigarette (I know it’s bad for me) which makes the approach by security even more insane.

Maybe, we should as a group, all go to Parramatta Mall with our 200-400VR’s, 70-200VR’s etc., and see what reaction that would invoke.

Also, the first shop that I saw in Charlestown Mall was a camera shop!!!!

[christiand]

Hi all,

a while ago I took some shots of a window display of a jeweller in the Canberra Centre.
I was quickly approached by the owner (in a friendly way) telling me that security had alerted her to the fact that I was apparently taking photos.
I explainded to her that one of her displays was very funny, models of vehicles with people inside, really quite hillarious scenes with vehicles.
I also pointed out that one of my friends was looking just like one of the passengers in some of those vehicles, again very hillarious.
She laughed and went back to business.

Some people can share humor !!!
CD

[Nnnnsic]

I'm curious if it's perhaps the way our cameras look... perhaps it's an SLR thing.

I wonder what would happen if people inside a mall went around with the following:

a standard PHD camera (say one of the Canon Ixus or smaller Nikon Coolpix cameras)
a pro-camera like a D2H with it's user wearing something resembling a press pass
a medium-format camera like that of a Bronica or a Hasselblad
a TLR like the Rollei or Mamiya
a phone camera
a handheld video camera (MiniDV, Hi8, etc)

I'd love to see their reaction and I wonder if it has something to do with the professional image that SLR's generally bring across.

Here's something to think about though.

If Tom, Dick, and Jane are eating at a Macca's in the food court of said shopping mall and they take out their phone camera and snap some shots and possibly some video of each other doing silly things or whatnot, have they gone against the rules for using a camera inside the shopping centre?

[sirhc55]

The simple answer would appear to be yes. According to the security person at Charlestown Mall they had stopped a group of people in a cafe within the complex celebrating a birthday from taking photos. How petty can they get. . .

[Nnnnsic]

That's pathetic.

How do you do passport photos at the camera store, then?

[MCWB]

Wow, interesting stuff Chris! Anyone up for a Charlestown Mall meet?

I don't think Gary or MattK will take much convincing, and I'm not far behind. Shitstirrers anonymous meeting afterwards too.

[gstark]

Wow, interesting stuff Chris! Anyone up for a Charlestown Mall meet?

I don't think Gary or MattK will take much convincing, and I'm not far behind. Shitstirrers anonymous meeting afterwards too.

And as per Leigh's suggestion, we have a medium format, as well as video recorders we can bring along.

Who's up to carrying the SpeedGraphic??

[birddog114]

I would like to see/ read any policies or condition of entry into those shopping malls with the clause of prohibit people carry their camera or photography within the mall. Maybe I'll learn.

[Nnnnsic]

Anyone have a Minox?

I wanna see them squirm...

[stubbsy]

I'm pretty sure Charelstown Square is a Lend Lease mall. Maybe you should write to them Chris and complain.

[sirhc55]

I'm pretty sure Charelstown Square is a Lend Lease mall. Maybe you should write to them Chris and complain.

Stubbsy - I have decided to call their Centre Management tomorrow and if I get no satisfaction from them I will contact the big boys. I want to hear from them exactly what their policies are,m why and also why there is no notice to this effect.

I was thinking about this this morning and came to this conclusion:

You will see signs that say NO SKATE BOARDING but that does not stop you walking through that area with a skate board under your arm.

You will see signs that say NO SMOKING that does not mean that you can’t have one in your mouth so long as it is not alight.

So why in the name of hell can’t you walk through a mall with a camera over your shoulder???????