Image used without auhorization... Lol @ this...

[Kyle]

What to do (if there is anything I can do...)

http://www.drivebathurst.com is the site, They offer drive days, trackdays and racecar driver training, at premium prices..

Note the image of the silver porsche with the bathurst 07 decals.

Here's a screenshot of my photo in cs2, posed next to the image from their site.. http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/8984 ... umpxx2.jpg


Worth emailing them or something? I mean, it's part of their site that they are using to sell trackday events on, so theyre making money with something I produced.


I don't know.. If I had been asked permission, I just might have said go for it...


Thoughts?

Kyle.

[jamesw]

if you have had no prior dealings with them:

send email requesting payment

and send letter in writing too (mention this in email)

ask for them to remove image or pay $x.

if you have had prior dealings with them, perhaps just call up and ask them wahts going on.

[gstark]

Kyle,

Have you at some point sold the image to anybody? If so, to whom?


You most certainly should send them a polite note, pointing out that you believe that they may be using your image without appropriate authorisation, and see what sort of a responde that yields.

[Kyle]

This image was not sold to anyone, others from the event were to mag houses though.

Hmm, time to start writing a letter I think..

No doubt they will sell 60 odd tickets to the bathurst event... 60x average of 3000 =

Edit, the image has also been modified, they removed the dutton rally event number..

[Yi-P]

How did you get to notice this? Did someone tell you before or just that you randomly browsing and found this out?

I agree with the polite email asking for them to clarify this before going into too wild.

[wendellt]

i would chase it up they used your image without your permission

they may want to compensate you when they are found out maybe you could use this situation to your advantage and ask them to use you for future events or compensate you in that sort of way, by giving you work

and i would get them to credit you as well thats important

if they turn out to be real bad asses well thats bad and i hope it doesnt come to that but usually when people are caught out they seem to be willing to putit behind them quickly by doing whatever

[Kyle]

Found out through a friend yi-p, photos coming to you too soon btw


Ok.. I'll make contact tonight or tomorrow with them regarding this, cheers all for the input!!!

love this place

[bwhinnen]

And quote a decent amount, it is on the front page as commercial advertisement.

Sad that people can't make the time or effort to find out who the tog is!

Good luck Kyle!

[Matt. K]

When you contact them inform them that you have the tools to authenticate via a checksum that the image is yours and that this evidence is admissable in a court of law. On second thoughts, that should be contained in your second letter if you don't get a polite reply to your first.

[Kyle]

When you contact them inform them that you have the tools to authenticate via a checksum that the image is yours and that this evidence is admissable in a court of law. On second thoughts, that should be contained in your second letter if you don't get a polite reply to your first.

Is it actually 100% possible to verify that it's mine Matt? I mean, apart from the obvious ways of matching fine details by eye etc...

[michael_]

How did you get to notice this? Did someone tell you before or just that you randomly browsing and found this out?

I agree with the polite email asking for them to clarify this before going into too wild.

i pointed out to kyle, i vist the site often, well their main site (track corp) and now drive bathurst as i wanted info to possibly shoot the event. I know kyles work pretty well (having shot dutton with him) and knowing the image from here so promptly let him know.

[Nnnnsic]

Is it actually 100% possible to verify that it's mine Matt? I mean, apart from the obvious ways of matching fine details by eye etc...

EXIF data perhaps might account for it. The web image is unlikely to have the EXIF in it, but the original extracted for the web would.

[shutterbug]

Make sure to take a screen capture of it ASAP.

If they are bad...You can also send a letter to the hosting company.

[Raskill]

Nothing further to say, cause it's been said by everyone else.

Good luck with it. You could always make it work to your advantage..... offer yourself as the official tog for the meet, plenty of dollars trackside....

[Kyle]

Nothing further to say, cause it's been said by everyone else.

Good luck with it. You could always make it work to your advantage..... offer yourself as the official tog for the meet, plenty of dollars trackside....

Wont happen I dont think... theyre mates with 'drift king' the guy who does dutton and easternats i'm led to believe..

[Matt. K]

There is a way to compare 2 images and authenticate if they are exactly the same. You need to get a digital copy of each image and they need to be the same size and resolution. The suspect image is copied and then pasted on top of the original. In the Layers pallette the blending mode is changed to "difference'. The way this mode works is to examine the values of a pixel and the one beneath it .. if they are an exact match then it will show them as black. If the entire image is shown as pure black then the images are exactly the same. If there are any differences then colour and shapes will be seen. To test this method try the following experiment. Open an image in Photoshop and make a copy of it (Control + J). Go to the layers pallette and change the blending mode to "difference" and you will see nothing but black. Now enlarge the bottom layer and make some very slight changes such as, clone,blur, slight colour change to some part etc and then see what happens in the layer pallette.

[phillipb]

So this test wouldn't help Kyle if the people who pinched the photo did some cloning or other pp work to the photo, I think kyle has already mentioned that they have done.

[Matt. K]

Phillip
I think if more than 70% of the image was exactly the same....considering 6 million pixels, then the mathematical odds would be extraordinary. Some localised messing with the image could well prove the image had been altered because you would know exactly where to closely examine the image for alterations. It is almost impossible to alter parts of an image without leaving a trace and this is seen at the edges of the transition when the image is greatly magnified. If the image was globally distorted or stretched then it would be impossible to prove it was a copy.

[ATJ]

What if the image was resized? Wouldn't that screw up the comparison?

[xorl]

What if the image was resized? Wouldn't that screw up the comparison?

No.. Basic manipulations must be done so the features align (rotate, crop, resize). Afterwards you should see the general structure of the images match very closely when overlaid. At that point I think the evidence is pretty damning..

[markjd]

Any more news on your fight, Kyle?


Mark

[jethro]

Kyle layer the 2 images in Photoshop theirs with a 70% opacity and if its the same get your lawyers involved for copyright infringment. No more said. If they used your inage witout consultation have a go!
Jethro

[Kyle]

I'm having a serious case of writers block

Anyone have any suggestions as to what to write exactly?

[michael_]

omg you suck you lazy sod you havent done anything.

"TAKE MY IMAGE OF TEH SITE YOU A*****"

HEHE just kidding.

the one you original thought of was fine mate. just quote some copyright rubbish and come up with a monetary figure

[Matt. K]

Kyle
Sir
It has come to my attention that you have used one of my photographs without my permission in publication...date....page. As you are no doubt aware this is a breach of the current Australian copyright laws and it is also a form of stealing property that does not belong to you. I have invested a great deal of time ond money in my photographic endevours and I expect to be fairly compensated when my work is used as a commercial product. My normal fees for the use of one of my photographs used on a one time basis are $74.50 I would appreciate settlement within 14 days. My account details are....

Something along these lines is a good start Kyle

[Kyle]

Just sent this...

To whom it may concern,

It has come to my attention that one of my photographs has been used on your website without my permission in publication - (front page http://www.drivebathurst.com – image ‘bathurst2.jpg’ Silver Warren Luff Porsche that has had its Dutton rally competitor marking removed by retouching).

As you are no doubt aware this is a breach of the current Australian copyright laws and it is also a form of stealing property that does not belong to you.

I have invested a lot of time and money in my photography business and I think that it would be only fair that I am fairly compensated when an image of mine is used in any commercial advertising/marketing situation.

I am more than happy to release this image to you, and will provide you with a full resolution copy at my normal rate for this situation.

- One full resolution image (3000x2000 or greater) with no usage/time/copyright restrictions whatsoever will be $125.00



If you would like to discuss this matter further, I can be contacted via reply email, or phone on 0402 bla bla

How quickly do you think he will remove the photo from his site

I've got a screen shot also showing time and date..


Time will tell i guess


Thankyou all for your valid input, and mattk, thanks for the starter

[bwhinnen]

You're selling yourself short Kyle.

I would have restricted it to a period of 12 months and for the website only. Specially at that price.

Let us know how it turns out!

Cheers
Brett

[Kyle]

Brett, it won't matter in the long run..

Why would they pay to put a photo on their site when they can get someone elses for free...

Ahh well, time will tell i guess..

[bwhinnen]

Brett, it won't matter in the long run..

Why would they pay to put a photo on their site when they can get someone elses for free...

Ahh well, time will tell i guess..

Because your photos are better than the free ones and worth the price! (and no I'm not trying to blow smoke up your proverbial either).

It's the same as anything in this world (specifically photographic images), people don't place value on something that is cheap, if it is cheap it must be of inferior quality.

And when I say cheap I mean either a) free, or b) well under market rates (yeah I know, define market rates...).

[Kyle]

Got a response, very prompt and all good! :D

Hi Kyle,

I believe that the image that you are referring to was sent to us by an
enthusiast and we were not aware that the photo was taken by you. We
generally use images that we own or images provided by the Bathurst Regional
Council on our site and we are more than happy to pay for stock images.

Please point us to your page where the image came from and by all means send
through an invoice made out to TRACKCORP PTY LTD - ABN blah blah . You
can email the invoice to me or post it to PO Box blah blah 1360.

Have you taken any images of the Mt Panorama Circuit that we may be able to
purchase?

[greencardigan]

Great outcome!

[bwhinnen]

Great outcome Kyle!

[Kyle]

Yeah I'm quite suprised actually

[greencardigan]

I'll have to get someone to 'steal' some of my pics.

[gstark]

Kyle,

That response is precisely why you should always start off in a friendly but firm manner.

As I suspected, they probably (and truly) did not realise that the image was your's and any reputable person will, given the opportunity, be very happy to rectify the wrong, given half the chance.

Your note to them was professional and courteous, and that is exactly how your first contact needed to be.

Well done, and a great outcome.

And also, seeing how you're giving them a perpetual license to use the image, I think they've got a bargain too.

[sirhc55]

Excellent Kyle plus they have opened a door for you with other images

[Kyle]

Thanks guys for pusing me to take it up with them!! If it wasnt for this thread, i would have just gotten over it and forgotten about it..

[michael_]

and if not for me you would have never known so 50% kthxbye cash will be fine on the weekend ;P

[Kyle]

Invoice sent and links to other photos of interest sent

Michael, thanks mate

[markjd]

Well done, Kyle. Best of luck with your other photos.


Mark

[Kyle]

Well, My bank acct just recieved his payment

[Paul]

A good result Kyle!
Great to hear the door is open for future work

[Reschsmooth]

Great outcome!

[tasadam]

Whether they "received the image from an enthusiast" or whether that was just an excuse, doesn't matter - excellent result!
I suppose they could have apologised and removed it, that would have been the end of it... Now you have a potential market for more photos - go for it!

[Kyle]

Ding ding round two...fight...

http://www.wheelworx.com.au/round3_win.html

Two images used there in their media release, both still with circlework tags on them


Maybe I should just give up and sell my gear, it's a never ending fight to try to make money from motorsport photography...

[tasadam]

A blatant breach of copyright. Get serious. Ask them for a lot more money or threaten legal action and make it look serious.
Maybe even get legal advice so you do know where you stand.
Don't be disheartened - they have STOLEN from you. If they want to purchase your photos for this purpose, they can... for a reasonable fee and WITH your permission, making it legal.
They're at fault, undeniably.
They will need to compensate you for (a) the unauthorised use of your images, (b) the use of your images. And don't forget (c) legal costs if they don't come to the party.

[michael_]

i only see one, but dont be worried kyle look at the outcome with drivebathurst just take the same approach

[Glen]

Kyle, are you sure that someone else didn't take that image and put your name and company affiliation on it I would download the site, including the source date from when it was put up, as they will probably remove it instantly. By the look of the photo, with no concealment of your ID at all, I would guess they are blissfully unaware of copyright. This should be straightforward.

[Kyle]

i only see one, but dont be worried kyle look at the outcome with drivebathurst just take the same approach

They used a 2nd one in the same release on the nissansilvia.com forums..

I had best make up some money recovery email templates soon i think, i can see this sort of thing happening more frequently...

For sale:

1d mk2n, 23k shutters, perfect condition..make an offer
70-200 2.8 non is... UT date code, immac cond
Crumpler 7mil home $100
Etc
etc
etc

[adam]

i only see one, but dont be worried kyle look at the outcome with drivebathurst just take the same approach

They used a 2nd one in the same release on the nissansilvia.com forums..

I had best make up some money recovery email templates soon i think, i can see this sort of thing happening more frequently...

For sale:

1d mk2n, 23k shutters, perfect condition..make an offer
70-200 2.8 non is... UT date code, immac cond
Crumpler 7mil home $100
Etc
etc
etc

What else are you selling?