Should I buy a D200? Or wait?

[Willy wombat]

Hi guys

Some of you may know that I am into underwater photography.

I have been considering making the plunge into a DSLR underwater housing for a D200 (upgrading my D70 in thr process). Im also getting strobes, etc the full underwater box and dice.

And now Nikon anounce the D300 and make me change my mind again. How much do you expect the D200 to come down in price in the next few months and should I get one now, wait a month to get one (cheaper), or should I wait and get a D300 in a few months time?

I dont know what to do, and my money is burning a hole in my pocket!

[ATJ]

Steve,

I had been going through the exact same dilemma. I have a D70 with Ikelite housing and while I am very happy with the camera, the small viewfinder is particularly frustrating when the camera is in a housing and I'm trying to look through it with a mask on. I had pretty much decided to get a D200 and the Ikelite housing for it.

That was until I started hearing the rumours of a replacement so I hung off. I'm glad I did. I think the D300 will make a much better underwater camera - at least for me - especially with the 3cm LCD. It has an even larger viewfinder that is 100% of the sensor and some of the new focus capabilities will be perfect for UW.

It is unlikely that the D300 will fit into any existing housings I figure I am better off waiting for it and an Ikelite housing before I upgrade. If I went with the D200, I'd have to get a housing for it and then couldn't justify upgrading later. So I will wait.

Of course, you may be thinking differently than me, but my thoughts may be of use.

[gstark]

The one question neither of you have asked is how many photos will you miss taking by delaying your purchase?

Of corse, the answer will be different for each of you, and it may well be zero, but it's still a question you need to consider.

[ATJ]

Gary,

It is a question I have considered. As I said I am very happy with the D70 other than the viewfinder. I don't think I will be missing any or many shots by waiting - I just think I will be able to take better framed shots with a D300 (or D200). I also think the D300 will let me be more creative and give me more cropping capabilities because of the higher pixel count.

The thing that I have to consider that "normal" photographers have to consider is the cost of the housing. I'm sure Steve has the same consideration. If I was to buy a D200 now, I'd have the cost of the camera (AU$1683 from Poon) plus the housing (US$$1,379.95 plus shipping from B&H) - i.e. virtually doubling the price of the body alone.

The D300 is probably going to be around AU$2200 and I expect the housing for it will be much the same as the one for the D200. This means the total outlay will only be $500-600 more for the D300.

While I could get the D200 now, I'd miss out on all the features of the D300 and I'm stuck with a lower spec camera for longer. Yes, it is higher spec than the D70, but the D70 does what I want now and if I upgrade, I may as well go for the best I can afford. Additionally, I won't be able to afford the D200 + housing now and the D300 + housing later.

Waiting for the D300 also gives me the option of using the money I might have spent on the D200+housing on glass. I lust after the 70-200mm VR as I don't have any long lens at all. I am already missing out on photo opportunities (above water) - e.g. the eclipse tonight. I might buy that lens instead. Then there is the 105mm VR - which would be better than the 60mm I have for taking insect photos.

So, yes, I have considered the missed photographs.

[ATJ]

Steve,

One thing I forgot to mention which may influence your decision. Most of the housings have interchangeable parts so while the housing itself is specific to the camera model, lens ports, strobes, strobe arms, sync cables, etc. can be used from one to the next. When I upgrade from my D70 to the D300 I "only" have to replace the housing and can reuse everything else. While the housing alone is not cheap, those extras are also not cheap so you can reuse them.

This means your options are basically:

* Get a housing for the D70, plus all the extra pieces and at some point replace the camera and just the housing

* Get a D200 and a housing, plus all the extra pieces and at some point replace the camera and just the housing

* Wait for the D300 and get a housing plus all the extra pieces

[olrac]

AJT,

I have only one experience with under water photography and I have noted that you don't get as much light under the surface, so for me if I was you I would at least wait to see what the noise control is like on the d300.

If it is allot better than the D200 this would help get more photo's "Under the sea" (yes I was thinking of the little mermaid) if not the d200 is not going to be more expensive....

Hope this helps.

[ATJ]

Olrac (or is that Carlo? ),

What you say is mostly true for available light photography, especially if you are using colour correction filters. Available light underwater photography is not all that good as you don't lose light evenly. You lose red light very quickly and by the time you get to 20 metres or so, you really only have blue (and violet) light remaining. This is not something you can correct in post processing or with white balance adjustment. You can get filters to help correct, but you they are of limited value because the light loss varies with depth and the clarity of the water.

I use strobes for the majority of my underwater photography and this solves both lighting problems - amount and colour of available light. The reach of the strobes is not a real limitation as you lose so light horizontally as well with distance so you need to be as close as possible to the subject. I almost always use base ISO (200) on my D70.

For me, the D200 is more than good enough for UW photography and my decision to wait for the D300 is not about needed features of the D300 but more about economics and buying the "best" camera, once.

"Under the sea" makes me think more of Homer.

[Grev]

If your current camera isn't detering you from taking any great photos then I'd say wait, and I guess it's better to go to a D300 anyway because one big factor - noise thingy.

[team piggy]

I just grabbed a D200 from Poon (With 18-200VR) for about 2300 AUD. I figured it was cheap enough at the time.
I will be grabbing a D300 when they are a few months into their release as my 2nd body and retiring the D70s.

Even the 200 is an awesome step from the 70!

[gstark]

I have only one experience with under water photography and I have noted that you don't get as much light under the surface, so for me if I was you I would at least wait to see what the noise control is like on the d300.

Carlo,

You're correct in stating that there's a high level of light falloff as you go more deeply under water. But this is not the environment to rely upon high ISO and low noise usability. As soon as you start losing light, bring a strobe or two, mounted off camera.

You'll note that most housings are designed with this exactly as a goal, and there's a very good reason why this is so.

[gstark]

my decision to wait for the D300 is not about needed features of the D300 but more about economics and buying the "best" camera, once.

And that's a very good reason.

[Reschsmooth]

but more about economics and buying the "best" camera, once.

I wonder how much a housing for a Hasselblad H3D would cost

[ATJ]

but more about economics and buying the "best" camera, once.

I wonder how much a housing for a Hasselblad H3D would cost

Priceless

[Reschsmooth]

but more about economics and buying the "best" camera, once.

I wonder how much a housing for a Hasselblad H3D would cost

Priceless

So I presume a housing for a view camera is even more "priceless"??

[Willy wombat]

Thanks for the tips thus far guys. Im certainly doing so hard thinking. One thing that is weighing on my mind is that I am off to Indonesia in December for a diving holiday and I want to take my gear with me. I would also want to have some time to learn the new camera and hone my skills with the kit before the trip. So Gary's point about the photos I would miss out on taking is certainly something that is on my mind.

Im fairly certain that the D200 with full strobe set up will be a tight unit that I could live with for a few years and (given time) would expect to take great photos with it.

No one has touched on the issue of D200 price yet. Right now Poon is supplying them for about $1680. Do you expect this to fall dramatically as soon as the D300 is released? I seem to remember the price of the D70 falling quickly as Nikon brought out new models.

Im also very interested to hear what the new specs of the D300 will offer. Will the higher ISO noise be drastically reduced on the D300?

Cheers
Steve

[ATJ]

Steve,

Thanks for the tips thus far guys. Im certainly doing so hard thinking. One thing that is weighing on my mind is that I am off to Indonesia in December for a diving holiday and I want to take my gear with me. I would also want to have some time to learn the new camera and hone my skills with the kit before the trip. So Gary's point about the photos I would miss out on taking is certainly something that is on my mind.

That changes things a lot. I think that pretty much rules out a D300. It will be hard to get a body by then and probably even harder to get a housing.

That leaves you with two options:

1) Housing for the D70 plus all the gear.

2) D200, plus housing, plus all the gear.

Using B&H prices and assuming you went Ikelite:

D70 Housing: US$1250
D200 Housing: US$1380

2 x lens ports: US$240 (you may need more, depending on your lenses)
2 x DS125 Strobes with arms: US$1700
Dual sync cord: US$136

If you get the housing for the D70, it will cost you US$1250 plus the other gear and you could then upgrade to the D300 and only lose the cost of the D70 housing.

If you go for the D200, you will need to buy it AND the housing so it will cost you more but it will last longer and you won't "need" to go for the D300.

Im fairly certain that the D200 with full strobe set up will be a tight unit that I could live with for a few years and (given time) would expect to take great photos with it.

It will be. And you won't have many limitations with it.

No one has touched on the issue of D200 price yet. Right now Poon is supplying them for about $1680. Do you expect this to fall dramatically as soon as the D300 is released? I seem to remember the price of the D70 falling quickly as Nikon brought out new models.

While the price will almost certainly drop, I doubt it will drop in time for your purchase.

Im also very interested to hear what the new specs of the D300 will offer. Will the higher ISO noise be drastically reduced on the D300?

I think it will, but that won't necessarily help for UW (see above).

[gstark]

but more about economics and buying the "best" camera, once.

I wonder how much a housing for a Hasselblad H3D would cost

Priceless

So I presume a housing for a view camera is even more "priceless"??

I would go so far as to say it's without foundation.

[olrac]

Both of you are probably past this but I found it worth a read

http://www.bythom.com/advice.htm

[jamesw]

No one has touched on the issue of D200 price yet. Right now Poon is supplying them for about $1680. Do you expect this to fall dramatically as soon as the D300 is released? I seem to remember the price of the D70 falling quickly as Nikon brought out new models.

While the price will almost certainly drop, I doubt it will drop in time for your purchase.

and in the same breath, i doubt it would drop 'drastically'.

prices have been floating in between $1350-$1500 at BH for the last 6 months, and purely as speculation, i'd think that the price may hit perhaps the $1200-1300 mark. any lower than this, and I think the d200 would begin intruding on the d80 price point.

i do think, however, that you will start seeing the price of 2nd hand d200s begin to slide as many users begin to start selling up their d200s to purchase d300's and d3's...

personally i'm very happy with my d200 and the only reason I want to upgrade is for FF... and initially, I though 'bam, i'm buying this camera'... but after serious consideration, I still think that my d200 has enough life in it... I will continue to build up my lens collection and consider my next body purchase in 12-18 months, as I had initially planned...

[Matt. K]

I can do all I need with a D200....and when I look at a print I can't tell if it's full frame or a 1.5 crop job. So...do I need a D3? NO! Do I want one? YES! Will I get one? Not for a long time.