Be careful when making comments about companies...

[ATJ]

... and their products.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22405674-2,00.html

http://whirlpool.net.au/

[moz]

B'stards!


(or is that libellous?)

[Laurie]

microsoft sucks
apple rocks
canon sucks
nikon rocks

[Alpha_7]

If they applied the same kind of thinking to this site we'd be in trouble.

Crazy stuff.

[ATJ]

I very much doubt that the plaintiff (2Clix) will be successful in the suit, but they will cause as much trouble as they can.

[gstark]

There are apparently at least three law suits pending against 2Clix by some of their clients, and there is also talk of a class action suit.

[Glen]

I would guess that many informed users would avoid a company which sues over fair and reasonable comment of its products. I would.

[Yi-P]

If that is the case for the forum, what about dpreview.com? Now owned by amazon, but with all the flaming posts in there very single day, will they be sued for millions?

And we all say that we live in a country with freedom of speech...

[Biggzie]

It would be a shame if this site had to close off the forums from public viewing.

[macka]

"Vendor Verdicts" have been banned from Overclockers Australia Forums for a long time now on the basis of legal advice.

The forum admin was actually taken to court as a result of some allegedly defamatory comments on the forums, and discussing the company involved is now expressly forbidden in the forum rules:

No Discussion of Sunlit/Compugate:
Until further notice, discussions or comments relating to Sunlit, Compugate or the persons Paul Johnson or David Wu (Sunlit directors) are not permitted. The forum software will attempt to automatically blank out the words Sunlit or Compugate if they are used - making variations of these words to bypass this automatic filter is not permitted and may get you banned forever. We do not read every post, but people can report posts to us. If we receive notice that you are discussing Sunlit, Compugate, Paul Johnson or David Wu you will be banned from making further posts on the OCAU forums!

We do not have a bill of rights in Aus, and thus we do not have an absolute, constitutional right to free speech like people in say, the U.S.\

Further, Gary is potentially liable for any defamatory comments made on this forum, since he is essentially "publishing" what you say on here.

[stubbsy]

That's a very interesting read. The issue with lawsuits like these (and Microsoft has refined this to an art form) is that if the person doing the suing has deep pockets and the person being sued has stuff all money then chances are it will end up being settled out of court in favour of the person doing the suing since, with no money, the target cannot sustain the legal case whether they have right on their side or not.

Bottom line is that the legal system hasn't kept pace with the internet and it's impact on information dissemination.

[Killakoala]

2Clix will have to prove that their business suffered as a consequence of the comments on Whirlpool and not as a result of faults in their own software.

That might be a challenge for them according to the negative comments on Whirlpool about the 2Clix software, which is what caused the lawsuit anyway. Or something like that.

Question is, is this an attempt to sue for comments made 'word of mouth.' Can we not discuss with our friends, anything at all that might be taken as defamatory or derogatory without fear of libel?

This could be the thin edge of the wedge.

[macka]

2Clix will have to prove that their business suffered as a consequence of the comments on Whirlpool and not as a result of faults in their own software.

That might be a challenge for them according to the negative comments on Whirlpool about the 2Clix software, which is what caused the lawsuit anyway. Or something like that.

As Peter said, it's still going to end up costing the Whirlpool people a lot of money up front, even if they are in the right.

[Killakoala]

As Peter said, it's still going to end up costing the Whirlpool people a lot of money up front, even if they are in the right.

Absolutely, so let's hope a benevolent lawyer offers his/her time to help.

[Laurie]

As Peter said, it's still going to end up costing the Whirlpool people a lot of money up front, even if they are in the right.

Absolutely, so let's hope a benevolent lawyer offers his/her time to help.

surely a forum the size of whirlpool will have 1 lawyer who wouldnt mind doing some pro bono work for the forum.

[garyr]

The irony is that until they made the news with their legal action, no-one would even really have known that some people did not like their software. Now the whole world knows, and it will have to raise some questions in a lot more people's minds about choosing this software. Some decisions defy logic, and I sent *them* a note via their contact form conveying my lack of understanding of this logic. I may just head on over to whirlpool and donate to the war fund.

[Laurie]

I agree with gary. i have some other things to say, but decided I didnt want this forum or me to get sued

[moz]

As Peter said, it's still going to end up costing the Whirlpool people a lot of money up front, even if they are in the right.

It looks as though he has a pro bono lawyer at this stage, and it's actually in the interests of various media groups to help him out, since there's a clear line between his forum and (say) the blog comments on media sites.

There's also the question of whether it's in public interest to effectively shut down community forums online when the same is explicitly protected IRL - if I go to a public meeting (say, a property developer show and tell) and robustly criticise a particular company, that's only putting myself at risk from lawsuits. Otherwise I think I'd be stand on government land slagging off all and sundry so as to cost said govt big bikkies in lawsuits

[BT*ist]

So wait, wait....

1. You make a crappy product - that costs you money.
2. Somebody says "hey, you make a crappy product" - that costs you money.
3. You take them to court, thus making other people aware of the fact that people are saying you make a crappy product - that will cost you money.

But surely the combined sum of 1+3 is going to massively exceed the effect of 2 on its own?? Aren't you harming yourself much more by engaging in 1 and 3 than 2 ever will?

If 2Clix wins this, you might as well find yourself a nice new country to live in.

[Ivanerrol]

You want to get sued?

Just say something about the company that advertises sou*d through research. Even a bad or so so review in a audio mag is bait for a tort. You will not see a review for their products ( or that other Danish mob) in quality audio publications. Bad mouthing or even complaints about their products in forums invites a letter from the lawyers to the forum master.

You will never here a bad word about them anywhere.

Just hope litigiousness like this doesn't spread.

[Onyx]

I have a friend who ran a website and was sued by a company for defamation, and I went to court with him. So cases like these interest me.

With this case, the Whirlpool thread(s) responsible for supposedly defaming 2clix is still up and in plain public view. I remember when OCAU got issued legal papers, the admin immediately took down everything not just to do with the small biz on the south coast that was the plaintiff but shut down the vendor verdict section, and instigated strict measures to enforce user's opinions on every business (ie. admitted defeat IMO).

I don't believe 2clix has a case. Reading thru the Whirlpool threads that lead up to this legal action, IMO it was a case of a few ex-users of their software posting what I would consider to be statements of fact as it pertains to their individual circumstances (no different IMHO to what Gary has written on his latest Asus saga), and outlining their perceived poor support from 2clix leading them to dump their software in favour of another system. It was not immature defamatory or baseless slanderous comments. The inability of 2clix representatives, who were registered users of the forums, to adequately address the issues raised that the company resorted to extreme (hilarity) in persuing legal action. And instead of going after the real culprits, they went after the easy target - the website admin. I guess they couldn't afford real lawyers and got poor legal advice too.

[Shorty]

If 2Clix has a case, so does Microsoft.... on a MUCH larger scale!!

Shorty

[moz]

If 2Clix has a case, so does Microsoft.... on a MUCH larger scale!!

It's quite possible that Microsoft don't see suing their customers as a viable business strategy. After what happened to SCO I think many people would agree with them.

Would you buy from a company that was ready to sue you if you didn't like their product?

[BT*ist]

Would you buy from a company that was ready to sue you if you didn't like their product?

Ah, but if 2clix has their way, surely your decision to not buy their product is also harmful to their business model. Therefore shouldn't they be able to sue you for loss of profits arising from you not being a customer? Oh, freedom of choice... I sure will miss you.

/end Ridiculous extrapolation

[BT*ist]

Update : 2Clix have apparently dropped their lawsuit.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/web/lawsuit-over-forum-comments-withdrawn/2007/09/19/1189881557140.html

[glennles]

I think all website owners with a forum breathed a sigh of relief. The irony is now that the company has a worse reputation as a result of a suit than because of the comments of a few people on a website.

[gstark]

I think all website owners with a forum breathed a sigh of relief. The irony is now that the company has a worse reputation as a result of a suit than because of the comments of a few people on a website.

Serves 'em bloody right.

[Killakoala]

That's good news for Whirlpool. I had not doubt that they would win the argument, but at what cost?

[Big Red]

i think 2 clix just shot themselves in both feet

[Chaase]

What goes around comes around

<snip> Gold Coast based accounting software firm 2Clix, which hit the news recently for lodging a lawsuit against the founder of online telecoms forum Whirlpool, has appointed an administrator and staff are clearing out their desks according to the general manager of the company <snip>

http://www.itwire.com/content/view/14953/53/

Karma
I just feel sorry for the employees that have lost their jobs.

[Laurie]

*SNIP*
I just feel sorry for the employees that have lost their jobs.

i don't!
onward and upward is the only way they can go after what they went through. they are better off