Moz's confiscated CF card... the saga continues

[moz]

I went into the cop shop today to find out what the deal was with my card. Apparently if it was confiscated but I don't have a receipt then I have to wait for them to contact me. which will be when the court case is ready. Until they contact me I can't even find out what court case they're talking about... I got very general answers and no real help. Things got noticeably less friendly when i said that the reason I didn't get a receipt was because when i asked they started telling me about what would happen if they arrested me, which i interpreted as a threat.

Which rather raises the question of whether I should have insisted on a receipt, even if it meant getting arrested. Over a $120 CF card... I think not.

edit: Originally discussed here: http://dslrusers.com/viewtopic.php?t=28343

[Biggzie]

Surely if that was taken and no receipt given it would be classed as robbery in the eyes of the law. The fact that the police was armed with battons etc wouldnt this be classed as armed robbery.
If it was taken as part of charging you with an offence, then you should have been informed at the time of the offence, so if it goes to court isnt there an issue of not informing you of your rights etc.
I cant see why you couldnt report this to the coruption branch or what ever its called in NSW

I cab see some letters to the editors coming up ... + A Current Affair + today tonight

actually why not tell the Chaser ... they might walk in holding a Canadian Flag and pick it up for you ....

[Reschsmooth]

As discussed in the other thread, if you were in the restricted zone, they police have the right, I think, to seize prohibited goods, and if confiscated for more than 24 hours, becomes property of the crown. My initial question, in the other thread was, how could a CF be considered as a prohibited item given the list given in the Act?

[moz]

The problem with all of this is that I can't identify the officers concerned, so my avenues of complaint are limited.

In practice, I'm not willing to spend a lot of time chasing it or whining about it, I'm more inclined to spend the $120 and write it off as just another intrusion into my life by the government. As with so many actions of the Police, this is not about using due process of law to achieve justice, it's about using the legal system to punish people who come to the attention of the Police by taking up their time and energy.

[hangdog]

When the "officer" refused to issue a receipt or identify himself, and responded to the requests with threats, then I think it was clear that he had no intention of ever returning the card.

He would have known that his refusal would have left Moz entirely dependent on his goodwill for the card's return: goodwill which was not in evidence at any point.

Nothing that could be done about it, of course.

--Chuan

[Reschsmooth]

The problem with all of this is that I can't identify the officers concerned, so my avenues of complaint are limited.

In practice, I'm not willing to spend a lot of time chasing it or whining about it, I'm more inclined to spend the $120 and write it off as just another intrusion into my life by the government. As with so many actions of the Police, this is not about using due process of law to achieve justice, it's about using the legal system to punish people who come to the attention of the Police by taking up their time and energy.

Well said, apart from the generalisation, but then again, everyone who generalises is a complete....

[moz]

how could a CF be considered as a prohibited item given the list given in the Act?

I am guessing that by containing a record of the security measures it is therefore equipment to be used in breaking that security. Or some equally nonsensical argument.

In practice there's not a lot I could do. I mean, keep arguing and get arrested = costs me a week off work plus whatever legal costs flow from that; stop arguing and write the card off = lose card; walk away and pursue a complaint later = time off work plus legal costs but very low chance of either getting convicted or getting a useful result. The cheapest one is "write off card and whine about it online"

[MSF]

What size/Brand card was it - I might be able to help you out...

[Onyx]

Did you insist on speaking with the station/area commander? If you're given the runaround with lower ranked turds, ask to speak to their supervisor, and go up the turd rank until you find someone willing to do something. Piggies are notoriously lazy about doing the right thing, you'll have to appeal to their own self interests - eg. "give me my card back or tell me how I can get my card back today and I'll stop bugging you about it now".

[Raskill]

If you're given the runaround with lower ranked turds, ask to speak to their supervisor, and go up the turd rank until you find someone willing to do something. Piggies are notoriously lazy about doing the right thing

Gee, what a charming person you are. Could you be derogatory if you tried?

Pity that a little 'piggie' has been helping Moz to try and get his card back.

[shakey]

Pity that a little 'piggie' has been helping Moz to try and get his card back.

Good cop....
Hope you are able to help Moz with his problem. Most of the country cops I know (men and women) are pretty decent. Most of the time its a thankless job and I'm not surprised that many cops get burnt out.

Goodonya Raskill

[moz]

Pity that a little 'piggie' has been helping Moz to try and get his card back.

Ooops, I missed that the first time.

Yes, "someone" has been prodding the plod a little, for which I am quite grateful. Thanks Alan.

moz

[Onyx]

Gee, what a charming person you are. Could you be derogatory if you tried?

Pity that a little 'piggie' has been helping Moz to try and get his card back.

Well here's one for you Raskill - would you honestly be going to this effort to recover someone's confiscated cf card if it were someone you didn't know thru these forums?

Alan, I apologise if I offended you personally. My dealings with your 'colleagues' in Sydney have been less than stellar, on every unfortunate occasion I've had to deal with them.
A home invasion resulting in injury - no show, no case number, not even meaningless signed papers for insurance. Just a comforting 'councelling' talk over the phone. I'm sure the same home invasion involving an officer's family would have warranted a 'code red' response.
Or when I was assaulted and by a maniac who threatened to kill me, it didn't warrant an investigation or interview with the other party (I was merely told to seek an AVO from the courts).

I'm sure there are 'good cops' out there, I just haven't met one yet. Hence my utterly bitter opinion.

[gstark]

Did you insist on speaking with the station/area commander? If you're given the runaround with lower ranked turds, ask to speak to their supervisor, and go up the turd rank until you find someone willing to do something. Piggies are notoriously lazy about doing the right thing, you'll have to appeal to their own self interests - eg. "give me my card back or tell me how I can get my card back today and I'll stop bugging you about it now".

Chi,

Is that sort of language really necessary?

These people are only doing their jobs, and most of them are honest and hard working, and have no control over the politics of this situation, which is where Moz has been caught.

[Raskill]

Well here's one for you Raskill - would you honestly be going to this effort to recover someone's confiscated cf card if it were someone you didn't know thru these forums?

I can truthfully say "Yes" I would.

I have done nothing for Moz that I wouldn't do for someone else in a similar situation. It's my job.

[TonyH]

Guys..... I reckon sometimes you just have to write things off......

The nervous energy involved in recovery is probably not worth the effort required.

The Police do the best job that they are able to, however I'm sure if the courts backed them up a little more then the attitude from our Police would be better.

Imagine being in a job or career, when you see a considerable amount of your hard work and effort going down the gurgler and the people who you are trying to take off the streets keep being given chance, after chance, after chance by the courts.....

I appreciate and I personally would be very upset by the confiscation / loss of the card if it were my situation, but my advice would be write it off and if it does show up, well that's a bonus.......

[moz]

Guys..... I reckon sometimes you just have to write things off......

That's pretty much where I'm at now.

Imagine being in a job or career, when you see a considerable amount of your hard work and effort going down the gurgler and the people who you are trying to take off the streets keep being given chance, after chance, after chance by the courts...

I still believe that it is better for 100 criminals to go free than a single innocent person be locked up. I'm hoping that our next government moves in that direction, reversing the course of the current one.

Of course, working in IT I get to see a lot of what you describe, as projects that are astonishingly important to someone for a year suddenly aren't even worth the time to tell us why they were cancelled.

[moz]

I have done nothing for Moz that I wouldn't do for someone else in a similar situation. It's my job.

It might surprise some of you, but I believe Raskill, and I'm not even particularly surprised. In my experience most cops, like most politicians (nurses, teachers, priests...) genuinely want to help people. For that matter, so do most people (the ones who don't we call sociopaths, or Dear Leader).

One analogy I make is with a friend who's an emergency medicine specialist. To him, power tools are incredibly dangerous things that you should never touch without protective equipment and adult supervision. Why? Well, the average power tool user he sees is lying on a stretcher and leaking. So to him, there's about three people he knows who have never injured themselves with a power tool, and about five a week that do themselves a serious injury. Conclusion: power tool users are often injured.

Your average plod is in a similar position, except that to them most people are, if not actually criminals, definitely suspect. Then we put them into a situation like APEC where monkeys wind them up and keep repeating that protester=terrorist and use lots of force, we must be absolutely sure.... no human being would be able to act reasonably in that situation (that's an established fact, not a supposition - look up the prisoner experiment). It's stupid, you'd never get it past an ethics committee, but it's cheap and easy to understand.

I think I'll have another go, but this time I'll wear a suit instead of bike shorts... try to trigger the "yes master" response instead of "who are you and what do you want".

[Matt. K]

MOZ
The officer who took your card also took your name I presume. He most likely would have recorded the incident and it would have been passed up as possible Intel. Write a letter to the commander of the local station giving the time,date and place the card was confiscated and give the details of what and why you were taking pics for. Someone should be able to track it down for you. Be polite and give the system a chance to work....as it suprisingly does sometimes.

[Killakoala]

Moz, I hope you weren't wearing that t-shirt in your avatar when you were questioned

[TonyH]

I still believe that it is better for 100 criminals to go free than a single innocent person be locked up.

No, I wouldn't even think about agreeing with you on that one......
The 100 criminals think that they're innocent and haven't done anything wrong by their standards.... becuase it's our fault (society).....

[team piggy]

Any outcome on this one Moz?

[moz]

Any outcome on this one Moz?

No sign of the card yet.

[team piggy]

Hmm, It's really good at hiding then!