Village... people

[Nnnnsic]

We've devised a very complicated system (and by complicated I mean quite simple) of letting users find out if they're bugging us just a bit...

For instance, say you post something and we think you're being a bit of a prick, your rank will change to match.
It's kind of like that old tradition of giving the kid who did something wrong the coned dunces hat, but in this case, we just change your rank to "Village Idiot"... yup, it's that smiple.

Of course, you might become the "village idiot" by pure luck, or perhaps you made a really good joke, in fact, gstark might very well be the first "village idiot"...

Tell us what you think of this new concept... I await some heated responses, especially from people who may or may not be the "village idiot" already...

[dooda]

So what is it--being a prick or saying a really good joke? The two are like oil and water. In fact sometimes I think "what a prick" then he lets one go on someone and I think "my mistake".

Is it good or bad to be the Village idiot. Can we have contests to see who can be the VIllage Idiiot for the most consevutive days?

[MattC]

Do the rest of us have a say. If so, I would nominate Leigh as the first candidate for coming up with such a ridiculous idea. Nothing better to do... like pull a plug or two? Sorry mate. I would have left that one alone (bit old), but you asked for it.

Leigh, I hope you are not serious. People do not like to be labelled in such a way. We all say and do stupid things and do not need to be reminded of it.

Cheers

Matt

[stubbsy]

Leigh

At 2:41 am I think you should have been in bed resting up for the meet at birddogs

[birddog114]

Leigh

At 2:41 am I think you should have been in bed resting up for the meet at birddogs

You too, I thought you're on F3 Freeway heading South

[stubbsy]

birddog

I'm just having breakfast. Leaving in 5 minutes. I drive fast

Plus I'm having a virtual VR club meet in Newcastle

[birddog114]

[gstark]

Do the rest of us have a say. If so, I would nominate Leigh as the first candidate for coming up with such a ridiculous idea.

Matt,

What makes you think it was his idea?

But yes, you can always PM either of us and point our noses in the direction of the posts and/or poster that you think qualifies.

While your point about offending people is well made, this is simply about injecting a bit mopre fun into here, and it's certainly not meant to offend anyone.

Indeed, I would even suggest that someone who was offended by it probably needs to both lighten up and to get a ife, while I suspect that some might see it as a status symbol.

Mind you, that latter group would probably just be a bunch of symbol minded people.

[gstark]

So what is it--being a prick or saying a really good joke? The two are like oil and water. In fact sometimes I think "what a prick" then he lets one go on someone and I think "my mistake".

Could be either.

There was a message posted a few days ago that annoyed both of us, but for different reasons. We each felt a need to communicate that to the poster, but in neither case was it serious enough to warrant any sort of moderation or anything like that.

Tagging the poster as the "village Idiot" seemed to me to be an appropriate, yet light-hearted way to get a simple message across in a hopefully non-threatening way.

Is it good or bad to be the Village idiot. Can we have contests to see who can be the VIllage Idiiot for the most consevutive days?

Again, it could be either, and I think it could be one way, as we grow, to retain that extra bit of personal attention and friendliness about the forum as well.

As to your lattermost suggestion ...

[MattC]

Gary,

Fair assumption considering he posted it. Just noticed the "we" right at the beginning, however it does not change my thoughts on the matter. It just means that the blame for that can be spread around a little.

My objection stems from the association of "prick" and "village idiot", plus the singling out of individuals. Perhaps it was just a poor choice of words.

And yes, I did think that it was in poor taste to single Leigh out for the outage after the first couple of days or so. It was wearing pretty thin after a couple of weeks.

Cheers

Matt

[gstark]

Matt,

I certainly wouldn't have used the words he did in that announcement, but he's just 21, and I'm an old fart. That said, he's an intelligent and articulate individual, and I'm not going to put words into his mouth. Perhaps label him as Village Idiot though ...


I agree that the plug pulling has worn well and truly thin. All we need is for those who raise this incident to accept this as fact..

[MattC]

There was a message posted a few days ago that annoyed both of us, but for different reasons. We each felt a need to communicate that to the poster, but in neither case was it serious enough to warrant any sort of moderation or anything like that.

Tagging the poster as the "village Idiot" seemed to me to be an appropriate, yet light-hearted way to get a simple message across in a hopefully non-threatening way.

Gary,

Tagging the poster may well be taken as threatening or offensive. It may be taken as the next best thing to a flaming. The number one reason I am out of that other forum is because of that sort of behaviour - there was too much to just ignore. I have never been on the receiving end of it, but I get sick of seeing it and reading it.

Another concern is that if the forum starts down this road, then where does it end? Is it not better to simply ignore the posts that we do not like, or set the person straight, or if the post is offensive in some way, to have one of the moderators have a quiet word in their ear. BTW, I try not to read too much into posts due to the vagueries of the written language, so I am yet to read anything that I consider suspect.

Cheers

Matt

[mudder]

G'day,

I don’t consider myself a key participant nor a high-value contributor to the forum but in my humble opinion this could lead to alienating individuals for the wrong reasons as what’s proposed could be interpreted by the recipient in a number of ways.

The friendly and close knit community feeling evident in this forum is what separates it from the others, a facet that is simply due to the manner in which the posters here conduct themselves, what you’ve proposed may be an option for those that post “troublesome” threads but I really think you’d need to separate the type and meaning of the user tags applied from the jovial, and the antagonistic or polarising posters.

The primary reason I don’t regularly visit another forum is due to the petty and sometimes quite childish threads from uncontrolled users, so I understand the need to control users and the types of threads/postings they make, but I don’t recall any postings of that ilk here.

I think if a poster was raising threads that were not in the best interest of the forum then I can understand the need for some form of “notice” to the user that the thread is not appreciated, but I’d separate the positive from the negative and use tagging as a second last resort.

Cheers,
Mudder

[xerubus]

i like it.... let's become a classist society

[sirhc55]

A short time ago a thread was posted that I found offensive - I kept an eye on this post and noticed that no one was replying - this kind of post must be picked up by the moderators and removed.

I do not feel that labelling a person will give the desired results and it will belittle someone who, under normal circumstance, has been a useful forum member.

I believe that the majority of the members of this forum are polite.

Those of us with experience have not belittled new comers to photography who have asked stupid questions - we are all here to help further the cause of the D70 and even the odd Canon user in the quest to make this hobby/business one of joy

[dooda]

I could just see it now. Cheering on the tag to some jerk who's acting like an idiot for the only reason to offend someone, then I say something goofy and suddenly the tags on me, and in my fragile state I'm wondering if I'm the offensive jerk as well. The term Village Idiot just doesn't encompass the nuance of meaning that you propose I'm afraid.

Maybe if you had something like,

Beligerant A-hole, and then Village Idiot, and kept one to the people who are being goofy, and the other to the people who really aren't thinking about what they're saying or something. That way some goofball like me isn't wondering if they were out of line, or if some Beligerent idiot is thinking that we find him ironically amusing.

[phillipb]

I agree with Chris,
I don't know about other people, but I look at the titles given and I see a "patron" or a "senior member" or a "moderator", then I know that person deserves some respect as they must have earned that title. The only addition I would make is that of "Limited Member" for people who have not yet qualified to be full members (bargain sect. etc.)
If you notice a person being consistently obnoxious then maybe a symbol like next to they're name can be added to remind him/her to pull their head in a bit and if they get to 3 or 4 , they're in danger of being banned.
Having said that, I really don't think we have anything to worry about in this forum.

[bago100]

Howdy all

I'm not sure whether you are referring to my recent post about the need to be circumspect and tactful when making generalisations about a population when one reports on about something or experiences something that is amiss or wrong with an individual. For example, receiving poor quality advice from one establishment and therefore proporting that all such establishments are therefore equally bad.

Maybe I am getting a bit paranoid, but if the offensive post referred to earlier in this thread (but not specified) is mine, then I unreservedly apologise for any offence caused.

In the past, I have, in my opinion, found the odd post here and there to be a little outside the ambiance and friendliness that this forum has grown famous for. But in saying that, it is very easy to misunderstand the written word and to take offence when no offence ever was intended by the writer.

Certainly, I think designating someone as the "village idiot" is perhaps confrontational, demeaning and aggressive and as there are other forums out there where confrontation and aggression sems to be the norm, it is something that is well avoided.

It would be much better, in my opinion, to introduce some kind of reward system that encourages intelligent and respectful posts. Perhaps stars could be allocated for original, respectful, creative, supportive and informative posts?

On a personal note though, I must say that whilst this forum is a huge success given the level of posting activity and number of members, I feel that it has lost a lot of warmth and friendliness simply because it is much harder to stay abreast of events, posts and so on and it is much harder to get to know individual members and to keep track of their ideas, experiences, lives and photography.

Cheers
Graham

[sirhc55]

Howdy all

I'm not sure whether you are referring to my recent post about the need to be circumspect and tactful when making generalisations about a population when one reports on about something or experiences something that is amiss or wrong with an individual. For example, receiving poor quality advice from one establishment and therefore proporting that all such establishments are therefore equally bad.

Maybe I am getting a bit paranoid, but if the offensive post referred to earlier in this thread (but not specified) is mine, then I unreservedly apologise for any offence caused.

In the past, I have, in my opinion, found the odd post here and there to be a little outside the ambiance and friendliness that this forum has grown famous for. But in saying that, it is very easy to misunderstand the written word and to take offence when no offence ever was intended by the writer.

Certainly, I think designating someone as the "village idiot" is perhaps confrontational, demeaning and aggressive and as there are other forums out there where confrontation and aggression sems to be the norm, it is something that is well avoided.

It would be much better, in my opinion, to introduce some kind of reward system that encourages intelligent and respectful posts. Perhaps stars could be allocated for original, respectful, creative, supportive and informative posts?

On a personal note though, I must say that whilst this forum is a huge success given the level of posting activity and number of members, I feel that it has lost a lot of warmth and friendliness simply because it is much harder to stay abreast of events, posts and so on and it is much harder to get to know individual members and to keep track of their ideas, experiences, lives and photography.

Cheers
Graham

Graham don’t be paranoid - it was not your post - you are always a gentleman

[ru32day]

I appreciate that the moderators probably need an outlet to put a bit of fun into their day/let off a bit of steam and, if they decided to go down this road, I'd accept that as the price of the continued work they put in to keep the forum the great place it is - however, my preference would be to provide personal feedback (sorry, I am a public servant after all) unless a person's actions are serious enough to warrant official moderator intervention.

To me, giving someone a nasty (if humorous) label in a public forum is a bit like putting them in the stocks in the town square.

Also, what offends one person (or makes them laugh) can differ from person to person and either can be quite unintentional on the part of the person causing the misery or mirth.

IMO if I'm offended by something said it's up to me to raise that with the person privately and pleasantly - as I might also do if they said something I found particularly amusing.

Another thought - we all want to "act up" from time to time - maybe we should have a "Village Idiot" forum that we can post in if we want to act in a way that is outside the standard of posts we'd make elsewhere here.

[bago100]

Graham don’t be paranoid - it was not your post - you are always a gentleman

Thank you sirhc55 - you have put my mind at rest.

Much appreciated.

Cheers

Graham

[Onyx]

Gary, Leigh - I'm only seeing this thread after our hearty discussions over this subject matter at our Sydney meet today (12 Feb).

From our conversations, I think you guys are just kidding around, letting off a bit of steam from users that frustrate you but don't quite cross the boundaries of the forum rules enough to warrant further action on your behalf. Much like the advanced info we discussed today about the Nikon D70 Pro that ppl will find out first on this forum when the info becomes available....

If this was being seriously considered, there is a danger that you'll drive away people who don't share the same opinions as the admin team. IMO I believe this counters the friendly atmosphere of respect for difference of opinion fostered thru arguments that remain civilised that this forum has become renouned for.

I believe the intention was to provide a more accurate reference for matters related to the topics that are discussed here. As it stands, there are many more lurkers than posters. We do not know how the lurkers are using the information gathered on these forums, and I would agree with any initiative that enhances the integrity of information that's presented as "truth".

eg. personally in my posts, I try to not only address the query posed by the original user but try to include additional information that may be helpful to others in similar situation being mindful that there are lurkers out that.

I've certainly enjoyed the private correspondence that I've engaged in with a few individuals by email or PM - and I take it as a compliment that they respect my opinion enough to ask me for advice or opinion.

[PlatinumWeaver]

I don't think I regularly offend people, so I'm not actually worried that we're talking about me ( isn't it odd though that everyone seems to have a guilty conscience about this.. ) but I would like to give my opinion..

I would much rather be PM'd by an Admin/Moderator and told to pull my head in than be given the digital equivalent of the dunce's cap. There are a lot of posts here.. if I post 15 replies and one of them offends/amuses an admin/moderator I may not know which one it is..

Honesty and openess I feel are the best attributes any discussion can have ( followed closely by drinks ) and I think you ( admins/mods ) would be doing all of us a disservice if you didn't come out and tell us when we had stepped over a line.. besides.. we're all moderately mature.. surely we can handle some well-meaning criticism/guidance?

[johndec]

Gary & Leigh. Congratulations. What a good Gee-Up. With a bit of luck this can bubble along for another 7 weeks and on the 1st of April you can announce it was all a prank.

Now, am I being sarcastic or do I really believe this is a prank? The vagaries of the written word which lacks the inflections of the spoken word can be tricky to decypher....

[JordanP]

I preface my reply with my acknowledgement that the admin/moderaters have done, and continue to do, a stunning job here. While there is no doubt - especially as the forum continues to grow - that some of the users here will tick you off and occasionally drive you nuts. So I see the motivation for the suggested change.

I'm not sure the approach suggested will achieve what you are really after though. In my opinion it has more chance to offend than to correct. But all that being said I have never had to moderate an online forum before, so if it is deemed to be the best way to handle it, then I'm happy for it to undergo the test of time.

Personaly, I like the idea of a friendly PM to let me know I am pushing the edge a little with the moderators. If I'm a nice person I would be more careful in future - if I'm not I would probably start getting nastier and then you would have clear cause to kick me out. Nothing like a little prod to bing out the best in someone

[Matt. K]

I would prefer to see a more gentle way in which to bring to someones attention that a post may be offensive, or not in keeping with the tone of the forum. I propose that the words or terms that offend be placed into brackets and the text colour changed to red...with a moderators note attached asking if the poster would like to reword the remark in a more constructive way. If a poster attracts 3 such warnings then they could be banned...or asked to show cause why they should not be banned. Or perhaps we could just shoot them.

[Nnnnsic]

I like the idea of shooting them.

At the end of a day, we occasionally see posts that annoy the hell out of us and this is pretty much a little joke between Dad and myself.

We probably won't do it, as a lot of the comments made have been extremely valid to which I would actually agree with, but you have to see it from our point of view... we're running this forum and we occasionally get someone who posts something that, while it may not annoy others, the way the post may be worded may be especially harsh or offensive to us alone which can be enough to annoy me, to say the least.

That said, it's interesting to see the response here, nonetheless.

And in regards to seeing posts that you, the user, may get offended by and would like removed, we obviously can't interpret if it'll be offensive to you just as you cannot see how some posts might be offensive to us.

If you do, however, see a post that rubs you the wrong way (and it had better be a damn good rubbing-the-wrong-wayeth, not just some minor issue you have with someone...) then be sure to message us with the thread link and the problems you have with it and we'll investigate it.

[leek]

Now that all that has been said, can you put up a new News Item that removes this topic from the prominent position at the top of the home page...
It's not exactly welcoming to have messages about pricks and village idiots as the first thing a newbie would see... IMHO of course

[bago100]

I like the idea of shooting them.

At the end of a day, we occasionally see posts that annoy the hell out of us and this is pretty much a little joke between Dad and myself.

We probably won't do it, as a lot of the comments made have been extremely valid to which I would actually agree with, but you have to see it from our point of view... we're running this forum and we occasionally get someone who posts something that, while it may not annoy others, the way the post may be worded may be especially harsh or offensive to us alone which can be enough to annoy me, to say the least.

That said, it's interesting to see the response here, nonetheless.

And in regards to seeing posts that you, the user, may get offended by and would like removed, we obviously can't interpret if it'll be offensive to you just as you cannot see how some posts might be offensive to us.

If you do, however, see a post that rubs you the wrong way (and it had better be a damn good rubbing-the-wrong-wayeth, not just some minor issue you have with someone...) then be sure to message us with the thread link and the problems you have with it and we'll investigate it.

Fair comment Leek!

Here is part of the original message at the top of the forum page;

Tell us what you think of this new concept... I await some heated responses, especially from people who may or may not be the "village idiot" already...

So, our administrators want some heated responses huh? Is this the spirit of the goodwill that should prevail on this board?

OK Leigh - you say there are posts that annoy you and your dad. You avoid specifics and offer generalisations.

Is that fair?

Is that showing the courage to really say what is bothering you both?

Instead, in my opinion, are dancing around and in doing so creating a bit of angst and alarm among forum members.

You discuss labelling some members who happen to make posts that you or your dad find annoying, as the "village idiot" of the day without telling all the members what you specifically find annoying to you, then it really makes any post a bit of a gamble in that if you or your dad happen to find a post annoying, the suggestion is, that post gets labled by you accordingly.

There are a huge number of highly articulate, intelligent and literate members here and I'm almost certain that if an offensive post was made by a member then other members would certainly make comment in response.

Unfortunately for us, we don't know whay not to say that might cause offence to you and your dad; we don't have administrator rights to either delete or lable any of your posts that we might find annoying, and we are now discouraged from making any posts at all. Is that fair also?

I am reviewing my membership of this forum now and I have to say, that I do not especially feel welcome at the moment, not that I think I've said or done anything wrong.

I'm sure there are probably a number of other members who now feel the same way.

Membership of any organisation should be a joy, and a pleasure to all members. Sure there will be annoyances from time to time, but overall the climate should, be one of mutual respect, belonging and support.

As is my nature, I seek to support and nurture whereever I go however, when someone makes a comment that needs clarification, as is my nature, I will seek to clarify, but always with respect and proper behaviour.

If you find this response annoying, then I apologise but I really think that in order to move forward, you have to be specific and say what is really annoying you or reconsider your original post and thoughts. No more beating around the bush please!

Graham

[kipper]

Yep, I think tagging people is pretty petty. If people start stupid threads just lock or remove the thread. If they're spamming threads then remove that post and give then give them warnings (maybe 3 strikes and temp ban?). Then for those just posting one liners and those one liners are an obvious attempt to bump up their post count then you could remove the post and warn them that you'll reset their post count to 0. I know that's what we do on one of our gaming forums if people bump their post count.

[stubbsy]

Graham

Please don't leave the forum. I think this whole issue is just a storm in a teacup, as it were. In reading between the lines from Leigh I'd say this whole issue is about to disappear. All we need to do is ignore this thread.

I don't honestly believe that either Gary or Leigh have it in them to play god with this forum in the manner that you fear. Rather I think that, from day one, it has been their active intent to nurture this as the type of community where all feel welcome to intelligently express their opinion without fear or favour.

[MHD]

When it comes down to the end of the day the site belongs to Gary... So he can do whatever he want. My personal thought is that the path you suggest is riddled with pitfalls, and has more than an oudor of pettyness to the casual observer... I know you guys and know that it all probably in good fun but many dont... We do not want to turn away another potential Birddog or other highly contributing future member by apearing petty this way...

I think aproaching the person (PM) about thier behaviour without public shaming is the way to go... if some one will not play by the rules and is clearly a detriment to the community then forget tagging them, just ban them....

By all means squish, at first sign, antisocial behaviour (such as that which occurs at the other site) but do it descreetly and "humanely"

[gstark]

Tagging the poster may well be taken as threatening or offensive. It may be taken as the next best thing to a flaming. The number one reason I am out of that other forum is because of that sort of behaviour - there was too much to just ignore. I have never been on the receiving end of it, but I get sick of seeing it and reading it.

Another concern is that if the forum starts down this road, then where

Which road?

What evidence do you see here of any flaming of any sort?

There is a lot of good natured ribbing that goes on, and I encourage that. This, IMHO, would be another example of that.

While I accept that some people might take offense, I would counter that bu suggesting that if they do, given the nature of this forum, they need to start taking life a little less seriously.

Perhaps even get a life.

Is it not better to simply ignore the posts that we do not like, or set the person straight, or if the post is offensive in some way, to have one of the moderators have a quiet word in their ear.

As moderators, we have but a few choices - ignore, moderate, or perhaps chastise in some way.

The message in question that caught our attention warranted none of the above, but the poster in question has a mild history of ... abuse. His posts always seem to rub me up the wrong way, just a little. Not enough to warrant any real action at all, but enough to say that he has my attention for all future postings he's likely to make.

So the question becomes one of how to handle this?

Again, he's done nothing that's really wrong. Not even borderline, but coming somewhere close-ish to it.

My suggested solution - and let's be straight about this - it was my suggestion - is an essentially harmless and temporary change to his tag.

It's nothing more than than a gentle nudge in the shoulder, really.

BTW, I try not to read too much into posts due to the vagueries of the written language, so I am yet to read anything that I consider suspect.

Fair enough; there needs to be a fair amount of lattitude in that regard, but at which point does one draw the line?

[gstark]

Chris,

A short time ago a thread was posted that I found offensive - I kept an eye on this post and noticed that no one was replying - this kind of post must be picked up by the moderators and removed.

If you can, could you please PM me with a reference to this thread?

In this intsance the question was simply related to one message in a thread. The same message attracted my attention for onme set of reasons, and Leigh's for another, completely different set of reasons.

Neither of us saw a real nead for moderation of any sort, but we do believe that some form of very gentle notice to the poster involved is in order. This was felt to be a light-hearted way of doing this, and I'm a little bit puzzled that a few of you seem to believe that the term Village Idiot, within the context of these forums and the light hearted banter that we encourage here, could be considered offensive.

[gstark]

Graham,

I'm not sure whether you are referring to my recent post about the need to be circumspect and tactful when making generalisations about a population when one reports on about something or experiences something that is amiss or wrong with an individual.

Let me assure you that your posts were not at all in contention here. What you said, was perfectly acceptable, as was the way in which that you said it.


The post that grabbed my attention was for the way in which it the poster said what he said, and the same post grabbed Leigh's because the content was, basically, misinformation. The misinformation normally isn't an issue; the manner in which he said what he said was a minor issue.

But this is not the first time that poster has made postings such as this - misinformation, plus very poorly, bordering on abusively worded, messages.

I'm slowly forming the opinion that this individual chooses their language to be deliberately offensive. I may be wrong, but - and this is the important point - he's not yet done enough to motivate me to feel he needs any form of moderator action.

Perhaps a very slight nudge, but nothing more.

Maybe I am getting a bit paranoid, but if the offensive post referred to earlier in this thread (but not specified) is mine, then I unreservedly apologise for any offence caused.

The post was not your's, and to my knowledge you've offended nobody. I don't see a need for you to apologise ...

In the past, I have, in my opinion, found the odd post here and there to be a little outside the ambiance and friendliness that this forum has grown famous for. But in saying that, it is very easy to misunderstand the written word and to take offence when no offence ever was intended by the writer.

This an important point, and this is why I'm stressing that the post in question - or perhaps the poster - is heading towards the borderline, but hasn't yet transgressed.

We need a small median strip to prevent this person from hitting the armco fence.

Certainly, I think designating someone as the "village idiot" is perhaps confrontational, demeaning and aggressive and as there are other forums out there where confrontation and aggression sems to be the norm, it is something that is well avoided.

Ok ... let me challenge you on this, if I may.

Where else in this forum have you seen evidence of confrontational behaviour?

Given that it's largely absent from this forum - and given your knowledge that this is something that we intend to continue - why do you believe that we would suddenly start to do this now?

I'm seriously trying to understand why you see the term "village idiot" - within the context of the light hearted atmosphere we have here - as being
offensive?

It would be much better, in my opinion, to introduce some kind of reward system that encourages intelligent and respectful posts. Perhaps stars could be allocated for original, respectful, creative, supportive and informative posts?

Good suggestion, but it fails to address the problem at hand - collecting the sheep who is at risk of straying.

On a personal note though, I must say that whilst this forum is a huge success given the level of posting activity and number of members, I feel that it has lost a lot of warmth and friendliness simply because it is much harder to stay abreast of events, posts and so on and it is much harder to get to know individual members and to keep track of their ideas, experiences, lives and photography.

This is indeed a valid point, but short of closing the membership, I'm not sure of any way that this can easily be addressed.

The way I deal with it is to make sure that I'm on top of who's here, and who's posting what. It takes time, and it takes quite some effort.

[gstark]

Graham,

A couple of points.

Fair comment Leek!

Here is part of the original message at the top of the forum page;

Tell us what you think of this new concept... I await some heated responses, especially from people who may or may not be the "village idiot" already...

So, our administrators want some heated responses huh? Is this the spirit of the goodwill that should prevail on this board?

Perhaps vigorous might have been a better word to use, but yes. If we cannnot have vigorous - perhaps even slightly heated - debate here, without discussing and arguing - and listening to - different points of view, then something is wrong.

The fact that people here can accept that we all are able to enjoy our differring perspectives, without getting into pissing contests over right or wrong, is a very strong point that needs to not be overlooked.

I'm hearing a very strong suggestion that my idea is less good than I thought it was. I respect the opinion of everyone here who has posted to this thread, and I'm going to be guided by the opinions of the members in this matter. I have no issue with y'all telling me to pull my head in on this one - or anything else, for that matter.

I know my sense of humour is often way OTT. here's another example. It's NBD, at the end of the day, and we will resort to a more traditional means of dealing with the miscreant.

And, in case you're wondering, the miscreant has not yet contributed anything to this thread.

Not a drop!

OK Leigh - you say there are posts that annoy you and your dad. You avoid specifics and offer generalisations.

Is that fair?

Actually, without giving the miscreant a chance to defend themselves, I believe that it's emininently fair.

Is that showing the courage to really say what is bothering you both?

Remember, the same post bothered both of us, but for very different reasons.

Add that to the poster's posting history here, and we're seeing a pattern starting to emerge. I'm probably more concerned about the pattern ...

You discuss labelling some members who happen to make posts that you or your dad find annoying, as the "village idiot" of the day without telling all the members what you specifically find annoying to you, then it really makes any post a bit of a gamble in that if you or your dad happen to find a post annoying, the suggestion is, that post gets labled by you accordingly.

Perhaps you didn't fully read Leigh's orignal post. He also, IIRC, made mention of the fact that you might be labelled village idiot for posting an especially funny post.

It's perhaps a bit like the term "bastard" in the Australian vernacular, where calling your mate an old bastard is a term of endearment, but you'd perhaps call your boss an old bastard because he was.

It's a double edged desert spoon!

There are a huge number of highly articulate, intelligent and literate members here and I'm almost certain that if an offensive post was made by a member then other members would certainly make comment in response.

Actually, I would hope not. Rather, I'd prefer them to draw this to the attention of one of the moderators.

It's the maturity of those highly articulate, intelligent and literate members here - and I include you amongst them - that has prevented the flame wars, encouraged the vigorous and active debate - such as we're seeing in this thread too - that so many here seem to enjoy.

Unfortunately for us, we don't know whay not to say that might cause offence to you and your dad; we don't have administrator rights to either delete or lable any of your posts that we might find annoying, and we are now discouraged from making any posts at all. Is that fair also?

I really think that you're reading far, far, far too much into this. That of course is your perogative, but after 6 months, we refer to basically one post that we want to deal with in (what we felt was) a humorous manner, and now you're trying to say you don't know where you stand?

I'm sorry, but you really need to come back down to earth and look at the reality of the situation a little more closely.

I am reviewing my membership of this forum now and I have to say, that I do not especially feel welcome at the moment, not that I think I've said or done anything wrong.

Nobody has accused you of anything. Nobody has even suggested that you've done anything wrong.

You will do what you what you feel is best for your cirumstances.

Membership of any organisation should be a joy, and a pleasure to all members. Sure there will be annoyances from time to time, but overall the climate should, be one of mutual respect, belonging and support.

Just to clear up any misconception here, this is an olnie forum. Nothing more. Nothing less.

There is no organisation beyond the provision of the service of an online forum.

As is my nature, I seek to support and nurture whereever I go however, when someone makes a comment that needs clarification, as is my nature, I will seek to clarify, but always with respect and proper behaviour.

Yep. And by raising your issues here in response to Leigh's post, you have done exactly the correct thing.

Nobody here has any problems with that.

[gstark]

Peter,

Rather I think that, from day one, it has been their active intent to nurture this as the type of community where all feel welcome to intelligently express their opinion without fear or favour.

Exactlly.

And can you cite a better example than this thread?

[sirhc55]

I would like to say one thing about this forum.

Since joining I have made friends seen and unseen from around the world who have two things in common - the D70 and photography. I feel as if I have profiles on many members from what they post and how they post and this has made my life more enjoyable over the past months.

We are a family that is growing and will always remain a family - and the one thing a family has is values.

[phillipb]

I definetly agree with Chris,
After a while you get to know people's characters by what they write and the way they write. Misunderstandings can occur but it would soon be obvious if they happen frequently with the same poster.
So, I take it that the Idea has been scrapped, or are you mabe looking for a better term then Village Idiot.

[MattC]

Gary,

Which road? The road of singling people out for ridicule???

I have never seen flaming of any sort here. My point is that tagging someone may be taken in a similar sort of way - threatening and/or offensive.

This is a problem that will need to be dealt with particularly as the forum grows. It is my opinion that this not an appropriate way to deal with it. As far as this particular individual is concerned, you mention a history of suspect behaviour. Given the evidence collected (that being the history referred to), then perhaps a quiet (and private) word in the ear might be appropriate, even though he/she may not have actually crossed the line. I would prefer to see these matters dealt with privately.

Just reading back over my posts from yesterday I realise that I have been quite the antogonist (I was trying to make a point). If I have caused offence to anyone, particularly Leigh, I apologise.

Cheers

Matt

[Onyx]

I would like to say one thing about this forum.

Since joining I have made friends seen and unseen from around the world who have two things in common - the D70 and photography. I feel as if I have profiles on many members from what they post and how they post and this has made my life more enjoyable over the past months.

We are a family that is growing and will always remain a family - and the one thing a family has is values.

Chris, you are one of the founding members of this forum. You've hung around long enough to earn the title of Senior Member, given invaluable advice in many posts across these forums, however I've yet to meet you at one of the Sydney meets... what gives?

[sirhc55]

Thank you Onyx for those kind words. Unfortunately I have an illness that inhibits movement (sometimes) and I have missed out three times on both Glen and Geoff bringing me over (my fault) - I will be there soon - promise

[gstark]

Matt,

Which road? The road of singling people out for ridicule???

Gentle prodding is more along the lines of what we had in mind.

I have never seen flaming of any sort here. My point is that tagging someone may be taken in a similar sort of way - threatening and/or offensive.

Yep. I can accept that some might see it that way.

But again, I come back to what I said earlier - if anyone wants to take things - within the context of these forums - in that way, then they probably really need to get a life.

This is a webforum. Nothing more, nothing less.

And if you're not having fun here - even whilst engaging in serious discussions such as this one - then you're doing something wrong.

It is that simple.

This is a problem that will need to be dealt with particularly as the forum grows. It is my opinion that this not an appropriate way to deal with it. As far as this particular individual is concerned, you mention a history of suspect behaviour. Given the evidence collected (that being the history referred to), then perhaps a quiet (and private) word in the ear might be appropriate, even though he/she may not have actually crossed the line. I would prefer to see these matters dealt with privately.

My belief - and perhaps I'm pre-judging the person here - is that this individual might be inclined to react the wrong way to a gentle PM.

I was thinking that something like assigning this person their very own tag - it's happenned before - might have been a gentle way to deal with it. The reasonbtw, that I came up with Villiage Idiot was because that is precisely how this person - and their postings - struck me.

Just reading back over my posts from yesterday I realise that I have been quite the antogonist (I was trying to make a point). If I have caused offence to anyone, particularly Leigh, I apologise.

I'll let Leigh speak for himself, but in all honesty, I welcome the frank and open discussion that we've had here.

I make no claims at perfection, and it's only by people such as yourself voicing your concerns that we can learn of your opinions. I'd hate to see people being scared to vent their opinions; that is simply not what we're about. The only criteria is that in venting your opinions, we discuss and argue the point of contention, rather than attack the people making their points.

[MattC]

Gary,

If the individual were to react adversely to a gentle PM, then I would suggest, using your words, that they need to “get a life”. If that person reacted adversely, then perhaps that person really does not belong in this forum. Most reasonable people (and this forum is full of them) would probably answer a PM in such away to explain themselves and undertake to keep the tone down a bit. For those who would like to go off on a rant or persist, then perhaps the solution is really a whole lot simpler.

Cheers

Matt

[dooda]

(Now slightly edited for clarity and errors)

I think I can characterize what is going on here. This is a unique place of intelligence and humour, and when something comes along that is less than ideal, Gary had a few options of dealing with it; obvious, or going about it in a slightly different way. So maybe he thought, I could deal with this in some typical way by banning or PMing the guilty, or I could do something that is a little more in tune to how this online family interacts- thus keeping with the current environment here while hopefully urging someone to think about things a little more carefully, and being a little unconventional as this forum tends to be compared to others.

I'm assuming that the idea is banned, but I appreciate the idea. I post this because I feel like maybe it sheds some light on the the motive behind the ideas' conception. I could be completly wrong as well, in which case Gary will correct me and then please disregard the above.

I also think that this thread shows how much respect the forum's members have for it's moderators and creators and how closely many of us feel about it's integrity. I echo Chris's statements. I am sincerely look forward to meeting some of you one day, and I love posting my pics even though I think some of you are a little too nice about them.

[gstark]

MattC,

Please read Dooda's most recent post; he's pretty well hit the nail on the head.

And I missed the bloody nail, and hit my thumb instead.

[MattC]

Gary,

I have read and reread all of the posts in this thread. From all that has been said, I have gained a greater appreciation for what is going on around here. I also appreciate the way in which you and other moderators seek to maintain this forum as a friendly and enjoyable place for like minded individuals – that has, in fact always been in mind. Do not allow my strong objections to this proposal influence you otherwise. I can also see what your thinking was behind the proposal – once it was explained.

Now, if the idea was to be revived so that it did not involve labelling the more problematic members, then I would probably go for it. I certainly could not go for it in the form of the original proposal. I would have quite happily worn that hat for my “…absolutely no interest in zooms…. 70-200VR” comments in a recent thread. I like the idea of passing a dunces hat around to one member at a time for silly or just plain funny comments. This could certainly become some sort of prize and would encourage the sort of posts that we want to see in the forum.

Cheers

Matt

[leek]

OK... I've just reviewed all of my 100+ posts and added smileys where necessary to adequately indicate my intent...

After Gary's comment of "Not a drop!" I couldn't help but think that it was directed at my Leek handle...

During my review, all I could find is that I may have offended Gary by disagreeing with his rather offensive comment that using any Sigma lens is like shooting thru the bottom of a Coke bottle...

If I've missed something, could Gary or Leigh (or anyone else), please PM me to inform me of my misdemeanor...

[phillipb]

Leek,
Gary couldn't have been referring to you because he said earlier that the relevant person had not responded to this thread. You had so you're safe.

[leek]

he said earlier that the relevant person had not responded to this thread.

He actually said that "the miscreant has not yet contributed anything to this thread. Not a drop! "

Obviously aimed at me...