Hourly rate

[Kris]

Guys, whats a rough hourly rate for a corporate function? It would be a dinner with high profile media and so on.

Just wondering what most people charge...

Thanks

[methd]

I didn't get a chance to negotiate the one I last shot. They offered me a rate, and I accepted. It was $700 for the entire night.. which was 7pm to midnight. It might give you an idea as to how much some are willing to pay though.

[Kris]

Thanks methd, seems about right.. Thanks!

[mickb]

You need to sit down and calculate all of your costs over a year include equipment depreciation, car running costs, insurances, office costs (stationary etc), computer equipment depreciation, internet costs, phone costs, marketing etc (there is probably more but I'm tired) then you add what you would expect back as a personal salary $60k for example. Add all of those up and divide them by 100, which would be the approximate amount of days you would actually be shooting (the rest is marketing and chasing business). This should give you a day rate that you would expect to get to run your business full time.

Lets say it all comes to $130k inc salary, divide that by 100 and you get $1300 per day (you can divide that down by 8 hours if you like, but set a minimum to allow for travel time and set up, i.e 3 hours min is what I use.

Now on top of this for each quote you need to add any extras, like assistant cost, printing and time for editing.

Now a lot of you think that sounds steep, but the reality is that after all of the costs a return of $60k is not an over the top salary. And now you know why full time pro's get so upset about part timers (I am not going to call people amateurs) charge only a couple of hundred per day, or even do it for free to get into the industry. The problem is that if you ever do make it into the industry full time, the pricing has been driven down so much you will never survive. I hope this helps.

Mick Brown

Disclaimer: You may already be charging fair rates and doing very well for yourselves, this post was not directed to anyone in particular but to inform all of how a photographers rates are derived.

[Kris]

wow mick, quite extensive! I dont make a living from this so its a bit different, for one of things I've yet to really come up with a figure but I might drop the $100 outta the air per hour figure for this job..

They trickle in and out, but really I dont go to great lengths to really do anything to promote myself or take more photographs. Infact im extremely slack lately and really need to get out more.

Hopefuly your post will help someone looking to make a real living from this!

Cheers
Kris

[MSF]

Kris,

It really depends on what they want from you...

Most of mine are ...
Turn up, shoot for 4-5 hours, leave - supply CD-Rom of all images at Hi-res without processing (within a few days) and I get anywhere between $550 and $850 depending on location and equipment required, travel times etc..

If they want prints - Extra
If they want proof sheets - Extra
If they want printing on-site - Extra

[Kris]

Thanks MSF, this job was 2.5hrs, 30mins travel time, 30mins breifing, 1hr processing, CD with high res and resized web versions, I put it at $750 and it was too much. I declined the job.

[who]

And Kris.... you did what most would not.

You declined a job.

That is the hardest thing for most to learn - some jobs are not worth the money.

I work in a profession that sells hours - accounting - and some jobs are not even worth 1.5x your hourly rate or 2x just due to the risks......

Let someone else chase them.

[Kris]

who, I declined it for the reasons you stated, it wasn't worth the job. She wanted to discount my post processing and briefing time or hourly rate, no professional discounts the hourly rate.

I didnt want to provide substandard work to meet their budget, I'd rather not do the job.

She totally understood and said she'd be in contact should any more work arise.

[Heath Bennett]

Well done Kris.

Just make sure that your quotes are very well itemised.

With all the time and money (you have a good kit now) you put in you can't settle for less than you asked on moral grounds. It is very annoying when you hear the job has gone to a Kodak shooter who uses direct flash and low ISO to collect no ambient light. We did a corporate event quotation a while back that was turned down, recently they came to us again, now they know how much better we are - worth the cost

Perhaps set up a section of your website for this kind of thing - if they get a bad and cheap guy they will see the difference. Even a great image on your quotation that has an address of your site to lead them there.

[Kris]

Hi Heath,

The quote was very well laid out, my girlfriend assists as she runs a PR business and does all my quotes very professionally! Much better than I ever could

I'm lucky in that the person that requested it is a friend, it was her company that didnt have the budget for me. She will come back when more work arises but Ill expand on my website as I build up a few more clients.

Im in a good position in that my daily job generates enough income for me to pick and choose my jobs, Id rather do a high quality job at a higher cost then a low quality job at a saving - it degrades my work and thats not what I want potential clients to see.

Cheers
Kris

[Reschsmooth]

One of the hardest words to say when you work as a professional quoting on professionally based fees: "Next!"

If you don't learn to say it, you will continually undervalue your own work and will never be able to price it accordingly.

I had been caught out a few times quoting a job which I knew I shouldn't have accepted, running over time and then having to explain to colleagues why I had to write off time. It's the same as discounting your hourly fee.

Maintain the discipline of properly valuing your services and people will come to you because you are not to cheap or because you discount.

Just my $300/hr

[Kris]

Thanks Patrick, agree 100% with you!

[Kris]

Guys, another quick question. What do most of you sell single prints, printed to A3 size for personal use only? Its a birthday present for a lady's boyfriend of the Sydney harbour bridge/Opera house. She wants it for him as a momento of his trip to Australia..

[Oz_Beachside]

Guys, another quick question. What do most of you sell single prints, printed to A3 size for personal use only? Its a birthday present for a lady's boyfriend of the Sydney harbour bridge/Opera house. She wants it for him as a momento of his trip to Australia..

its worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. consider the socio economic situation of the customer. Some can pay $30 for the right gift, others can pay $300, or $3000...

or, if thats not known, apply a time and materials perspective, but include in the time, the time taken to get that image. then add some margin for the knowledge to produce the quality product.

maybe its $200/hr, and the shot took you 4 hours of travel and sitting in the miserable sydney weather, wishing you lived at the home of real football, in a city with a proper cricket ground, and friendly people... hmm, now that is worth charging for... add 2 hours processing time, 2 hours to get a print, material costs, easy to get to $1000 in costs of your time...

however, some clients will see that you can print an image for $7.50, and not appreciate the "image capture" time.

[MCWB]

As above, varies greatly if it's a one-off. I routinely charge $40 for unframed A3 prints and am by no means the most expensive, probably towards the cheaper end of the range in my field.

[mickey]

You all make me feel bad when I 'help' people out taking pics at their events.

No more! ahh I'll leave the proper stuff to the pros.

[Raskill]

For a 60x40cm print I charge $75.

Actual cost is about $40.

[moz]

You all make me feel bad when I 'help' people out taking pics at their events.

Will you also refuse to do any other volunteer or underpaid work? I mean, don't go picking up litter, you might put the street sweepers out of business if you do that... and don't whatever you do buy a car, think of the poor taxi and bus drivers.

I regularly act as a cook, cleaner, advertising agent, courier, park ranger, police officer, rubbish removalist and many other things, all without pay, and without worrying that by doing so I'm impairing someone's ability to make a living. I do low paid or volunteer work if I think it's worth while, not because I want to help or hinder someone's career.

Unless you're one of those people who lives in an economy, forget about it.

[jamesw]

You all make me feel bad when I 'help' people out taking pics at their events.

Will you also refuse to do any other volunteer or underpaid work? I mean, don't go picking up litter, you might put the street sweepers out of business if you do that... and don't whatever you do buy a car, think of the poor taxi and bus drivers.

I regularly act as a cook, cleaner, advertising agent, courier, park ranger, police officer, rubbish removalist and many other things, all without pay, and without worrying that by doing so I'm impairing someone's ability to make a living. I do low paid or volunteer work if I think it's worth while, not because I want to help or hinder someone's career.

Unless you're one of those people who lives in an economy, forget about it.

i think it really depends on the motives behind the person

for instance, i am pretty cutthroat with my images. typicalylif someone wants one, they pay for it.

but on the other hand, there is a free bmx magazine thats been going for a few years now, and he basically uses the advertisements to pay for the cost of the magazine. some issues he ends up paying out of his own pocket to fund the printing. i'm happy to provide him with my time and effort, giving him (what i consider) quality photos and written pieces at no charge.

it's something that i would not normally do, but for a good cause, its worth it.

i, however, do not appriciate individuals giving out photos to organizations or people at no cost, when the organization/person makes profits from those photos...

pretty black/white really. people who are giving out photos for free to make a name are shooting themselves in the foot, aswell as all the other paid photogs out there

[Raskill]

pretty black/white really. people who are giving out photos for free to make a name are shooting themselves in the foot, aswell as all the other paid photogs out there

Not overly black and white. For instance Motorsport is very difficult to get payed work out of unless you are published. CAMS have an accrediation scheme for photographers that helps to promote high end MS photography and photographers, but to get that acced, you have to provide copies of images you have had published.

To get published you may have to give images away, for free, for editorial use, which in turn gets your images out there, which in turn gets you noticed and which in turn lets you start charging for your images.

Does that make sense?

[jamesw]

pretty black/white really. people who are giving out photos for free to make a name are shooting themselves in the foot, aswell as all the other paid photogs out there

Not overly black and white. For instance Motorsport is very difficult to get payed work out of unless you are published. CAMS have an accrediation scheme for photographers that helps to promote high end MS photography and photographers, but to get that acced, you have to provide copies of images you have had published.

To get published you may have to give images away, for free, for editorial use, which in turn gets your images out there, which in turn gets you noticed and which in turn lets you start charging for your images.

Does that make sense?

wow thats a backwards way of working! (i'm talking about the media accred btw)

i guess it keeps all the wannabes in the stands... but still... odd

[mickb]

Yes unfortunately you may have to do this to crack into some pro sports notjust MS, and there is another problem with this as well, you need to get cred's to get in to the events to supply those published images, which is also very hard to do (confused yet?, I just confused myself lol) . Which is why MSF's offer a few month's back was such a great opportunity that no one took up.

And thanks ras, you just answered my question I sent you

Mick Brown