What's wrong with the challenges

[stubbsy]

Our most recent challenge (Landmark/icon) was very poorly patronised and it's a noticeable trend of late. We have a fairly active membership base so why are these challenges not better supported?

[Geoff]

Good idea to poll this Peter.
I too was dissapointed with the lacklustre response.
Will be interesting to see what is revealed.

[phillipb]

I've only missed 2 challenges since the start, having said that, this last one was the second I've missed. Initially I thought "Great, no restrictions on PP" but the landmark part of it stuffed it for me, I couldn't get motivated with it.

[sirhc55]

For me to enter a challenge (and I’ve entered most) it has to invoke interest in the cerebral matter - this one did not. But in saying that, it also depends on time available and, most importantly, ideas

[glennles]

I'd just come back from an overseas trip with plenty of landmark photos but being a new member I didn't think they were up to scratch to enter.

I'll definitely have a go at the next one.

[Matt. K]

I think the process of getting images onto the challange site is sometimes a little finnicky and time consuming...notwithstanding the brilliant job that Scott does with this, (and by the way, have we thanked him appropriatley for the trouble he takes?). Is there some way we can make it easier?
Also, perhaps we could do a deal with a printer for a free 20 x 16 print for the winner as an inducement. In return we could promote the printer in some way. (A plug directly to 2000 photographers should be inducement enough?)
Comments?

[radar]

Peter,

I usually enter in the challenges but I haven't for the last two. The second last I didn't enter due to lack of time, just too much was happening at the time.

This last one, I was surprised at the low number of entries. I really thought that with the unrestricted PP that it would spur many to submit. For me, I'm not big/good with post-processing so I just thought that I'd leave that one to the others. In hindsight, I should have just gone ahead with a wacky HDR

As for prizes, they are a nice incentive but for me, they are not the deciding factor if I'm going to enter or not.

You look at the timesnap events, they get plenty of participation, no prizes.

Here is a suggestion on improving the challenges: look at integrating them in the forums. By this I mean that if you are logged in as a Member to the forums, you can go an submit/vote/etc without having to go to another site or having to log in. It would make it much easier for new members in the forums as well as easier for us old ones. I realise that it would involve a fair bit of work in the background but I would see this as a big improvement to running the challenges. As to not make this an empty suggestion, anything I could do to help to make this happen, I'm happy to pitch in

My suggestion above is nothing against Scott running the challenges because he's been doing a great job doing it, I just feel that having it all integrated with the forums would increase the participation rate.

Cheers,

André

[Matt. K]

André
Good points.

[Reschsmooth]

For me it is a function of time (a new child makes allocating time to a dedicated photo opportunity difficult at times) and a feeling that my shots are not up to the quality (recent [lack of] feedback on my images for critique support this feeling]).

I had a simple yet complex to execute (sorry for the poor grammar) idea for the song title comp, but I couldn't find the time. Weekdays for me are a no-go, and weekends are very difficult.

[phillipb]

André
Good points.

Yep, I agree too.
Matter of fact, if we had the current challenge photos scrolling in the front page instead of the hall of fame ones before the closing date, it could spur people on to submit an entry.

[Matt. K]

Patrick
Your images are better than you think! Enter the competitions and let them speak for themselves.

[BT*ist]

I'm not sure why there's been a downturn in entrants. I like the challenges because they usually force me to take different photos than I ordinarily would.

I personally have had a great time this year using a diabetic pet's syringe for one challenge, agonising over the correct lean of a sewing needle and getting the world's (seemingly) thinnest marker pen for another, finally found a use for my old Accounting textbook for another, and near-buried myself among mosquito-infested fernery for still another.. and that's not even all! And I also love seeing what other people come up with in their interpretation of the Challenges... I certainly hope we keep having them.

Maybe highlighting the 'fun' part of the Challenges rather than the competitive aspects might help?

[bago100]

In saying what I'm about to say, please know that I have no wish to disparage any past winners and near winners of the challenges. I'm sure they are all very well deserving and worthy of the honour or winning.

I'm only saying this because comment has been solicited and I have a relevent point to make.

I once entered a challenge a very long time ago and fared poorly in the voting.

I didn't think my image was too bad though - it certainly wasn't a winner but I thought it had a chance. Disappointingly for me, it didn't score well at all.

Rightly or wrongly, after looking at the images in the competition that I entered and knowing where some of the image takers live, and comparing that to how the voting scoring went in the competition, I had an uneasy feeling feeling that there may have been voting collusion which favoured members from a large geographical locality.

No proof, but a gut feeling nevertheless and for that reason I haven't bothered with the challenges since.

To eliminate any possibility of collusion, challenge judging needs to be totally independent. Organising this isn't as easy as it sounds, I'm sure.

Having entrants vote to decide challenge winners relies on the absolute integrity of all entrants and with valuable prizes and bragging rights on offer that is possibly too big of an ask in my opinion.

Graham

[MCWB]

Having entrants vote to decide challenge winners relies on the absolute integrity of all entrants and with valuable prizes and bragging rights on offer that is possibly too big of an ask in my opinion.

I take your point Graham, but I disagree. You reckon you can pick who's who? I can't count the number of times I've thought I knew who took a certain photo only to be completely wrong! I also agree on having images overlooked that you thought were good, I've had it happen to me too... but that's life and art and taste and all that isn't it!

[sirhc55]

radar - spot on

bago100 - I agree totally with an independent judging authority and have said so from the very beginning.

One interesting thing that I noticed about 2 of the challenges - in neither did I win but my image for the first was virtually replicated by another in the second, and it won

[Biggzie]

Well Ive never entered into a challenge yet.

Partly because of time and all the other crap thats been going on in my life for a while.
The other reason is that Ive been slack.
This last challenge didnt suit me, because Ive had computer problems with both of my machines, and Ive been limping along with a slapped together computer that basically usless for Post Processing.

I was going to enter the lamp post challenge a while back. Had my idea in my head, but before I had a chance the challenge was finnished.

Im up for challenges, providing I have the time available to put in to them.
Ive only entered 2 photo competitions before, and I won 1 of them, so I cant imagine I'll keep my 50% success rate against you guys

[Jonesy]

Even with a Big Blue lake for a landmark... once again my time management skills relating to my photography were very poor.

I always have good intentions.

[Bluebell]

Just a beginner's perspective:
a/ I'm interested in the challenges and like to see how others interpret them, but don't feel I have the skill or creativity yet to enter a challenge, though I hope to in future.
b/ I have attempted unsuccessfully to vote, however when I forwarded my info for access to the site I heard nothing back and haven't followed it up yet.
c/ I appreciate the effort that goes in to this process, thanks to all involved.

[macka]

I voted for the second option. Life gets in the way.

I've entered a few in the past and enjoyed the process. I'll probably do it again sometime.

You have to think about the themes as well. With something like landmark you are asking for the time commitment of not only coming up with an idea but actually travelling to a particular location and executing it, not to mention PP etc.

I would add that there's still not actually any easy way to locate the challenges. Every time I think about having a look I wonder, "what was Scott's site called again?" And there's no sticky in the challenges section to help people find that site or the current challenge. In fact that section didn't get used at all for the last challenge.

[Willy wombat]

There isnt enough hype about the challenges anymore. Im not inspired by them (perhaps im just in a rut?).

Prizes do play a part - When birdy was dishing out huge prizes there was a lot of interest int he comps. Its unfair that you guys would need to put a huge prize up for every challenge but there may be some other way of rewarding the winner(s)?

[greencardigan]

I voted prizes.

However that's not the only one I wanted to choose.

My thesis has been hogging much of my time lately and i still find the challenge themes rather uninspiring.

[who]

I voted other - reason being that I barely have time to pick up the camera for anything currently.

Working, studying a masters, doing a research paper for the coursework..... thats most of my time, then the wife wants company & help around the house, the dog wants walking, the list continues.

[Alpha_7]

I've entered most of the challenges and for me personally, a few things have changed. My first couple of entries where pretty crap, mostly due to my being a beginner with a new camera I didn't really understand. But seeing the quality of the work encouraged me to improve and think more about the images I was producing to fit certain themes, the quality and the competition was exciting. I got the the stage at one point where I shot more then 600 images to get my own entry, and helped Katie shoot some 250 for her own, this also included buying props, a trip to the beach, and a whole week where our house was a messy with my ad hoc "studio", and I use the S word very loosely. Now about a year later, I have less time to spend thinking about the theme, less time to shoot it and sometimes just less time to prepare the image and upload it. I've also found I'm not as excited anymore, and to be honest I'm not sure why.

I don't have any issues remembering the site name, but I used to before I used FF have trouble every single time I went to log into the site as it wasn't a standard Username and I'd spent 10 minutes just trying various combinations trying to get in.

On a smaller side note, I personally think when the challenges are announced the details should remain constant we have in the past had the due times changed, sometimes at the last minute, or had a long wait for the votes and placing to be announced. It's tough as Scott does a great job, but he's got other things on his plate too, but I do think finding out you stayed up all night to get a shot and then having another day, or finding out when you get into work that you had another 5 hours to perfect the shot etc can have a negative affect. I also think a quicker voting and reveal of the votes may help keep up the momentum and interest.

/ramble over.

[SteveGriffin]

I didn't enter the last challenge because the topic just didn't inspire me. I do like them so please don't stop having them.

For me it is not about the prize - it would be great to be able to brag about winning one but for the moment that has just been a fanciful pipe dream

[virgal_tracy]

I haven't entered because at the moment I don't think my skills are good enough.

While my photography skills are improving I am seriously lacking in the PP department. When the latest challenge had unlimited PP I didn't think I'd be able to compete.

Prizes wouldn't make a difference as to whether I enter or not. Accolades from peers are worth so much more to me.

My 2c worth

[Big Red]

I try and enter but there is a distinct lack of icons in Jacobs Well

[Oneputt]

I have never entered a challenge. I tried once a long time ago, but for this simple mind the mechanics of actually entering an image were all too complicated and I gave up. I have never tried since, and maybe it is easier now.

The themes appear good although sometimes the restrictions on PP appear a little harsh.

I stress though that this is just a very personal opinion.

[Biggzie]

Even with a Big Blue lake for a landmark

Actually I cant remember the last time I took a photo of that little puddle.

Just a beginner's perspective: .... but don't feel I have the skill or creativity yet to enter ....

Theres an idea, if Tony Delroy can have a Virgin Challenge every now and again, why cant we.
How about a Callenge for those who havent entered before. Maybe that might overcome the intimidation factor that some may feel going up against some of the more experienced members.

Just a thought

[dviv]

Or how about a challenge for different levels of camera?

A comp for entry-level only DSLR's (eg Canon 300D, 350D 400D and Nikon equivalents) could encourage people who are new to the hobby or haven't entered before to have a go.

[who]

Or how about a challenge for different levels of camera?

A comp for entry-level only DSLR's (eg Canon 300D, 350D 400D and Nikon equivalents) could encourage people who are new to the hobby or haven't entered before to have a go.

How does that work when as new to DSLR's I have a D200

Or am I just being difficult

The other option is to have different rules, but in total honesty another forum I follows Photography sub-forum is getting a lot less entries of late as well and they are weekly competitions.

[Manta]

I've entered probably 75% of the Challenges and, although I've been extremely chuffed to score some great goodies along the way, the promise of prizes hasn't been a factor . It wasn't the prize list that made the shot - the end result can only come from a concept spurred by an interesting theme. The actually execution of that concept is where the fun starts but it's only the next logical step after having the idea in the first place.

The members that know me know that I don't force the ideas I have for challenges; they come in a flash of either inspiration (!) or insanity and I then set about putting them into a shot. The theme is the impetus. If the theme doesn't tickle the grey matter then I can't come up with an entry.

Good themes that encourage lateral thinking, obtuse ideas and entertaining interpretations are what make the Challenges worthwhile, in my opinion.

Kudos to everyone who has set up, maintained and patronised the Challenges in the past. I hope they will always remain a prominent feature of the forum.

[Killakoala]

Perhaps a challenge to post the worst picture you have taken, then we can all enter without any fear of taking a bad one. I reckon it would be a bit of a challenge to do that.

The only times I have not entered the comps is when i was unable due to work travel commitments.

I enjoy the challenges and I do try to enter as many as possible. Heck, I even won one, although I am still amazed as to how.

[Biggzie]

A comp for entry-level only DSLR's (eg Canon 300D, 350D 400D and Nikon equivalents)

As a Pentax user for the past 20 years, I now know how it feels to be Tasmanian

[who]

As a Pentax user for the past 20 years, I now know how it feels to be Tasmanian

Why? Is using a Pentax like marrying your sister or cousin?

[dviv]

As a Pentax user for the past 20 years, I now know how it feels to be Tasmanian

Why? Is using a Pentax like marrying your sister or cousin?

Or having two heads?

[MCWB]

As a Pentax user for the past 20 years, I now know how it feels to be Tasmanian

Why? Is using a Pentax like marrying your sister or cousin?

Using a Pentax is fun for all the family.

[Biggzie]

Or having two heads?

Mines no good ... Only 1 eye piece

[methd]

the reason i dont enter is because i don't like the process of putting it onto the site

if a thread was used only for entering .. it would be much easier and a lot more viewable for ppl here.

[Mr Darcy]

For me it is time, or the lack of it, and inspiration.
So far I have only entered one challenge. There have been four (i think)since I have been a member.
Only one threw up an idea within the necessary timeframe, & I entered. Another gave its idea two days after the challenge closed. Damn.
With Stella I had some ideas, but I was unable to make the images the way I envisaged them, and for the last, I had plenty of ideas for a landmark, but PP is not my forte & I didn't have the spare time to learn in time. I guess I could have entered without PP, but that seemed to defeat the purpose of the challenge.

[blacknstormy]

for me, it is usually the fact that I take shit shots

[phillipb]

On the subject of challenges, have you noticed that Scott's site has been overtaken by spam? I'm getting all sorts of emails from there telling me that I've got new comments added to my images.

[Biggzie]

for me, it is usually the fact that I take shit shots

Umm .... Put them in the Challenge, we'll be the judge of that

[moz]

On the whole, the challenges have struck me as a lot of time and effort needed for relatively little response. I have looked at entering a couple of times but couldn't work out how to vote, let alone enter an image. Voting I vaguely recall was rate things from 1 to 5, but by "rate" it actually meant "rank" and it wasn't obvious what votes I'd cast.

The themes generally strike me as aimed at people who normally go to quite a lot of effort to take a photo, so a bit of extra effort for the challenge is fine. For me, I normally take photos of things I'd probably do anyway, so there's a huge jump in effort to enter a challenge.

To be honest, I'm just not taking that many photos of late - too much life, not enough time. Right now I could enter a "vasectomy photos" contest but that's about it, it's still an open question as to whether I'll be mobile enough to make it to the maxi-meet.

I'm struggling even to post photos for critique, I think largely because why I take photos is a bit up in the air - I used to do a lot of photojournalism, now I do a little bit of documentary work but generally don't take many photos.

Hey, "it's not you, it's me"

[Spooky]

I barely get a chance to read some posts on the forum these days, so going into the details for things like challenges is not on. Maybe in the future though if they are still going.

[Oneputt]

Umm the complex method of entering seems to be a common theme

[The Naked Duck]

Umm the complex method of entering seems to be a common theme

Tell me about it, your spot on there John.................you need to be a programmer just to enter and vote.

Embed the comp image in the thread, then attach a poll after it's finished. Simple and easy.

Still trying to get post count up so I can have a signature

[gstark]

I've been watching the responses here with a great deal of interest, but this one has me intrigued.

Embed the comp image in the thread, then attach a poll after it's finished. Simple and easy.

How does that give the entries any anonymity, which is required in order to get some element of neutrality in the voting?

Still trying to get post count up so I can have a signature

Glad to see that you're not actually "trying" ....

[The Naked Duck]

Thanks re: still trying to get the signature


Sorry for the vague reply before...............

I'm too new here really to comment on the anonymity aspect, but since you asked for my opinion I'll give it (maybe you did not ask )

Do away with anonymous posting in the comps. If the forum would prefer to have 5 anonymous entries with no bias then thats all good and well. If it could have 50 entries that are easy to submit and be a part of IMHO that would be a better option.

Just my 5 cents worth of thoughts.

[gstark]

Thanks re: still trying to get the signature


Sorry for the vague reply before...............

I'm too new here really to comment on the anonymity aspect, but since you asked for my opinion I'll give it (maybe you did not ask )

You're a member here, and we value everyone's opinion.

Do away with anonymous posting in the comps. If the forum would prefer to have 5 anonymous entries with no bias then thats all good and well. If it could have 50 entries that are easy to submit and be a part of IMHO that would be a better option.

Except that the issue of anonymity has not been raised by anyone as a reason for not entering.

Withou trying to place my own interpretation on the results I'm seeing here, the primary reasons given seem (to me) to be a lack of time on the part of individuals - which I take as being any of a lack of time to shoot/PP/prepare and/or submit the image, as well as a lack of time to actually come up with a concept for the challenge .... or a lack of confidence on the part of the member to submit their work (not good enough).

I reject completely any pretense in that second reason - everyone's images here are "good enough".

I can understand fully the first of these reasons though, and the mods will shortly be reviewing a number of the points raised here.

But coming back to your point: I accept fully that the submission process is not as simple as it might be, but I do believe that anonymity of the entries is needed in order to get better quality voting amongst the membership, and (again) there has been little comment that our need for anonymity has been an issue in any reluctance to submit an entry.

[Underload]

But coming back to your point: I accept fully that the submission process is not as simple as it might be, but I do believe that anonymity of the entries is needed in order to get better quality voting amongst the membership, and (again) there has been little comment that our need for anonymity has been an issue in any reluctance to submit an entry.

I too think the anonymity aspect is pretty important as well. However, given the identified problem about the submission process, maybe a simple tutorial thread or pdf, put together by someone who understands the system, might be an option?

It could cover the process for those signing up/submitting an image for the first time, and a refresher for those who already have a login etc. A coupe of FAQ's and a screenshot?

It could be on the front page as a link to a pdf, in the same way some of the other tutorials are, and be included in the first post when a mod creates a new comp thread.

Just a thought