soft, soft light...

[W00DY]

I want to achieve soft light like in this image:

http://www.morffewphotos.com/portfoilio_pages/52.html

Obviously there is a softbox to camera right, up high and pointing down? or slightly high, almost level?

Some lights on the background?

What setup / position of lights do you think has been used?

[Antsl]

A simple way to achieve this effect is to place a flash on your camera and bounce it behind yourself onto a white wall. Chances are you will need a reasonable amount of flash power but a good trick to make it easier on the flash is to use a fast ISO... 400 or 800 will do... and use a wide aperture. Remember, to achieve a soft light you need to create a broad area of light and this cannot always be achieved by just as soft-box. Hope this is a help

[gstark]

Obviously there is a softbox to camera right, up high and pointing down? or slightly high, almost level?

What Ants says, but to answer your question: slightly high, almost level. Probably right next to the photographer.

There's no shadow on the background, which suggests some distance between the subject and the background, plus separate lighting to blow out the background.

[W00DY]

Thanks guys.

I have tried this setup, one large double diffused softbox (80x120) as the main light and 2 lights on the background but I am not getting anywhere near the results of the example. My skin tones are no where near that smooth (do you think there has been much PP on the example image?).

I know it is hard to answer but when using this setup (1 main light only) woudl you be shooting between f10 - 13ish? The softbox light is a 500w light turned down to about 1/2 of the max.

I was shooting between f10 - 16.

[Antsl]

Place your softbox about 1 metre away from the subject and be sure to pack the left side of the photograph (opposite the softbox) with a large reflector. Be sure that the reflector does actually capture some of the light from the soft-box. As Gary mentioned, there is a very good chance that the other photographer in your sample image has one or more likely two lights aimed at the background to bring that to white and eliminate shadows from the subject. you could actually use two slaved SB800s or similar flash units to light the background ... you will need to balance the exposures between subject and background though. Keep exploring!!

As an idea Gary .... maybe you need to get the OZ Beachside traveling road-show into Sydney sometime to run a workshop for the studio wannabes!

[W00DY]

Maybe a little more info on the example. I don't know if this is exactly how this image was setup but basically in their studios they use 1 softbox as a main light and (I think) another softbox (on a rail system on the roof) to light the background.

The studio that I was in (when my kids got some images done at the Parramatta store) did not have any reflectors or anything except the above. I am surprised at the quality of the skin tones in particular ans would like to know if anyone has achieved results like this WITHOUT much PP. I am getting some good results but nothing like the tones / smoothness of the example image. I really want to know if I am starting off with a comparable image or if there is something else I should be doing in the setup to improve the images.

I will post some examples of my results soon, just got to get time to get my son in the studio again.

[Oz_Beachside]

Thanks guys.

I have tried this setup, one large double diffused softbox (80x120) as the main light and 2 lights on the background but I am not getting anywhere near the results of the example. My skin tones are no where near that smooth (do you think there has been much PP on the example image?).

I know it is hard to answer but when using this setup (1 main light only) woudl you be shooting between f10 - 13ish? The softbox light is a 500w light turned down to about 1/2 of the max.

I was shooting between f10 - 16.

perhaps you can show us your shot, so we can compare?

do you have a flash meter? it would be helpful so you can measure the light at the subject, and compare to the background.

light travels in a fairly straight line, and drops in power as you increase the distance. so if you are using a one light set up, and want the background bright, the subject and background will need to be close together, with reference to the light source. in english, try the softbox 200cm away, and the background just 60cm from the subject (or closer if you can avoid shadows by changing your angle of shooting and the height of the light).

as for the softness of the skin, I hope there is no PP edit on that of a child, perhaps other than global changes, like lower contrast. light at the distance away, equal to the diagonal of the softbox, should be very appealing.

[gstark]

Bruce,

light travels in a fairly straight line, and drops in power as you increase the distance.

Fairly straight?

so if you are using a one light set up, and want the background bright, the subject and background will need to be close together, with reference to the light source. in english, try the softbox 200cm away, and the background just 60cm from the subject (or closer if you can avoid shadows by changing your angle of shooting and the height of the light).

The trouble with this is that, if the background is close to the subject, there will be shadows on the background.

Changing the angle of shooting will change the lighting on the subject as well as the shadows, and that is not going to produce the desired outcome.

One softbox out front, and a second on the background, blowing it, is what this looks like to me.

As to the softness on the subject, that could well be achieved with a soft focus filter of some sort on the lens.

Andrew,

Try stretching a layer of panty hose across the front of the lens.

Also look at your exposure (I like to underexpose slightly to bring about a bit of extra depth of colour and saturation) and also look towards giving the wb a little nudge one way or the other.

Finally, there's a "glamour" PP technique that involves using Gaussian blur to help smooth out some features a little. I think if you google glamour and gaussian, you may get some details.

As an idea Gary .... maybe you need to get the OZ Beachside traveling road-show into Sydney sometime to run a workshop for the studio wannabes

You don't think we have the resources here to run this sort of thing?

[Oz_Beachside]

Bruce,

light travels in a fairly straight line, and drops in power as you increase the distance.

Fairly straight?

yep, fairly straight I was hoping someone would take the bait... it can bend... and spread... converge... and bounce back

As an idea Gary .... maybe you need to get the OZ Beachside traveling road-show into Sydney sometime to run a workshop for the studio wannabes

You don't think we have the resources here to run this sort of thing?

I think anthony was keen to get the road show idea rolling again you do have electricity in NSW by now dont you?

[W00DY]

ok boys, sorry to break up the banter (however I am sure Gary will pick it up again!!!)

Here is one I tried tonight with my youngest before he went to bed:



Now, I don't think it is as good as the example but I am not overly dissapointed either. I am not sure if I got the exposure spot on? Plus I used auto white balance which in this case turned out pretty ordinary (read - really bad), so I did need to fix the exposure and white balance in lightrrom/photoshop. I think the skin on his arms looks better than the tone on his face?

Settings:
D300
Nikon 85mm 1.4
1/200 @ f/11
ISO 200
Manual

Main softbox - 1/2 power
Backlight1 barndoors - 1/4 power
Backlight2 naked - 1/4 power
(I think I stuffed this up, I think the back lights are meant to be 1 stop more than the main?)

Here is the setup if you are interested:



Appreciate your thoughts on this. I have booked him in again for tomorrow morning so I will have the chance to try and suggestions.

Cheers,


ps: apologies to Chi (if you read this) for the baby shot.

[gstark]

Andrew,

Leave the backdrop lighting exactly as it is. Keep these two at the same power.

Bring the big softbox for the main light down to ground level. Have it even lying on the ground, basically pointing towards your subject right at the leading edge of where the background paper meets the floor. It needs to be lying right next to where you're going to be shooting from, and pointing more directly towards the back - closer to a right angle than it currently is, according to the setup image.

Pull the power down to between 1/8 and 1/4 .....

Now ... bring your son closer to the leading edge of the background paper. I think you need greater separation between the subject and the background.

With the power in the main light pulled down, but with the lighting effectively moved closer to the subject, I think you'll still need a small adjustment to your exposure. Remember that your shutter speed is largely irrelevant in this equation, so it's all done with relative flash power and aperture ... I'd play around at about 1/8 power and f/11 as a starting point, and see where that gets you.

You may even play with opening the aperture to f/8 or f/5.6, and dialing your ISO down below 200.

And try manual wb: flash, A3 or A4.

Cheers.

[W00DY]

Andrew,

Leave the backdrop lighting exactly as it is. Keep these two at the same power.

Bring the big softbox for the main light down to ground level. Have it even lying on the ground, basically pointing towards your subject right at the leading edge of where the background paper meets the floor. It needs to be lying right next to where you're going to be shooting from, and pointing more directly towards the back - closer to a right angle than it currently is, according to the setup image.

Pull the power down to between 1/8 and 1/4 .....

Now ... bring your son closer to the leading edge of the background paper. I think you need greater separation between the subject and the background.

With the power in the main light pulled down, but with the lighting effectively moved closer to the subject, I think you'll still need a small adjustment to your exposure. Remember that your shutter speed is largely irrelevant in this equation, so it's all done with relative flash power and aperture ... I'd play around at about 1/8 power and f/11 as a starting point, and see where that gets you.

You may even play with opening the aperture to f/8 or f/5.6, and dialing your ISO down below 200.

And try manual wb: flash, A3 or A4.

Cheers.

Thanks for the tips Gary,

My youngest has gone to bed but his stunt double is still up so I took your advise above and here is the result:



This was shot @ f5.6 with the main light at 1/4power and lowered to the floor (to lazy to move back and get a setup shot ). It was also taken with the 24-120VR as that was what was on the camera, but I did change the ISO to 100 Ohh, and this was also shot JPEG not RAW with no PP.

The colour is much better (thanks to the WB change) but by having the main light so low it does not blow out the floor like it did before. I don't like the gradual chaneg of colour from floor to background.

I'll try again with a real model in the morning.

[gstark]

Andrew,

Something's not quite making sense. Probably me, but read on.

This was shot @ f5.6 with the main light at 1/4power and lowered to the floor (to lazy to move back and get a setup shot ).

If the light was actually lying on the floor, and pointing directly at the subject, I wouldn't be seeing a downwards shadow from the subject, which I think I am, on the chair. Was the softbox perchance pointing upwards? It needs to be just lying along the ground ... basically parallel and next to you as you lie down on the ground to make this image. And pointing directly towards the backdrop.

It was also taken with the 24-120VR as that was what was on the camera, but I did change the ISO to 100 Ohh, and this was also shot JPEG not RAW with no PP.

Shooting mode doesn't concern me for this, but focal length does. Focal length affects your field of view, and that affects how much of the background is visible. At the longer end of the focal length range, you'll get less apparent background, and that is what I believe you're aiming for. Shoot no lower than about 70mm for this.

The colour is much better (thanks to the WB change) but by having the main light so low it does not blow out the floor like it did before. I don't like the gradual chaneg of colour from floor to background.

And I'm surprised that this is not blowing out the floor ... that suggests to me that the light isn't yet in the correct location - as I've noted above. I'm expecting to see direct light right in front of the softbox and directly along the floor. That there is a lesser amount of light on the floor around the chair is the reason for the seeming color change that you're observing, but I think the source of that issue is the not-quite-correct placement of that main light.

Having said all of that, I think that your subject is about a half stop or maybe a full stop too hot. I'm expecting to see some texture in the "skin", but it's looking rather flat. Yes, pulling your exposure to F/8 will affect other aspects of the image, but, as noted above, those other aspects also need to be corrected.

[Oz_Beachside]

i like the one of your son, nice purity in the white foreground and background!

i like to use the background lights 1 stop brighter if I am blowing the background.

this is an example of the background light at the wall, equal to the main light at the subject;


and this is one stop brighter at the background


I use a meter, but if you dont have one, you can use your lights power settings, and distance to subject.

[W00DY]

Andrew,

Something's not quite making sense. Probably me, but read on.

This was shot @ f5.6 with the main light at 1/4power and lowered to the floor (to lazy to move back and get a setup shot ).

If the light was actually lying on the floor, and pointing directly at the subject, I wouldn't be seeing a downwards shadow from the subject, which I think I am, on the chair. Was the softbox perchance pointing upwards? It needs to be just lying along the ground ... basically parallel and next to you as you lie down on the ground to make this image. And pointing directly towards the backdrop.

The bottom edge was on the floor (but as it was in portrait position I guess the majority was higher than the ground), The actual light was still on a stand.

The colour is much better (thanks to the WB change) but by having the main light so low it does not blow out the floor like it did before. I don't like the gradual chaneg of colour from floor to background.

And I'm surprised that this is not blowing out the floor ... that suggests to me that the light isn't yet in the correct location - as I've noted above. I'm expecting to see direct light right in front of the softbox and directly along the floor. That there is a lesser amount of light on the floor around the chair is the reason for the seeming color change that you're observing, but I think the source of that issue is the not-quite-correct placement of that main light.

I get this, tomorrow morning I will put the light on the small background stand I have and rotate it so that the long end is running along the ground.

[W00DY]

i like the one of your son, nice purity in the white foreground and background!

Thanks.

i like to use the background lights 1 stop brighter if I am blowing the background.

I use a meter, but if you dont have one, you can use your lights power settings, and distance to subject.

That is what I thought. I will adjust them also tomorrow morning. I am a big fan of the pure hite background, especially for babies... I now it is overdone in studio setups but myabe there is a reason for that

I will get this right before the end of this thread...sorry

[W00DY]

this is an example of the background light at the wall, equal to the main light at the subject;


and this is one stop brighter at the background

This just went from a nice innocent baby thread to....

[W00DY]

Ok, here are the results of using, what I think, Gary was suggestion.

First the setup photo (notice the softbox ON THE GROUND ). I moved the main light back a bit as I was using the 70-200 so I was lying on the ground "just" behind the softbox (about where the elmo toy is)



And here is one from the session: (notice the fall off on the floor again from the main light, I would not usually shoot on the floor, there will be a white bench so this probably won't be an issue.)



Settings:
1/200 @ f/11 @ ISO-100 (this was the JPEG out of the JPEG+RAW setting, straight out of camera)

Main light - 1/2 power
Backlight1 - just under 3/4 power
Backlight2 - justr under 3/4 power

What do you think? Also what do you think about the colour? I would love to get the manual WB flash setting spot on in camera so I don't need to change it.

[gstark]

Andrew,

What do you think?

The real question is what do you think?

I would like to see you move your subjects about 2 feet closer to the main light. (Or the main light closer to your subject.) Keep everything else, except your exposure, exactly as it was for this image. Dial your aperture to f/13 or f/16 as you move your subjects closer to the main light.

Use a nudge more zoom to crop more closely in the camera. This will help remove the floor etc.

Perhaps even more than just a nudge more zoom: look at the image you've posted, and consider cropping that with your lens so it starts from the waist, up to the top of the hands, in-camera.

Also what do you think about the colour? I would love to get the manual WB flash setting spot on in camera so I don't need to change it.

Again, the question is what do you think? How do the colours of the clothes relate to reality? I'm not seeing any unpleasant casts in the skintones, nor in the whites, so from that aspect, I think it's pretty close.

[Geoff]

This has been a most interesting thread. Thanks guys.

[Oz_Beachside]

i like to get the floor white too, if you move the backlights so that they spill onto the floor a little. in your setup, you have all the light on the background, and none on the floor. also, they look very high compared to top of image frame, perhaps just tilt them down a little more.



do you have umbrellas for those backlights? would give a good spread over background, and fill the floor. this can also provide nice rim lighting, or complementary contrast lighting to your main light.

the color of your flash wont change, so find the temperature that you are happy with, mine are 4700K, so if I dont use a expo disc preset, I manually set to 4700. your may be a different temperature, but once you find it, it will be constant until you change flash tubes.