Canon 350D review now up on DPreview.

[Matt. K]

Very interesting. Anybody want to buy a second hand D70?
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos350d/

(just kidding)

[gstark]

I was just looking at this myself.

Speed certainly seems to be up there now; it's a much more fully featured camera than the 300D.

Are there enough improvements to make 300D users upgrade?

Is there anything in there that would make a D70 user convert?

It does have MLU; it's surely only a matter of time before the low-end Nikon gets this feature

Would you buy a 20D in preference to a 350D ?

[MHD]

flash sync of only 1/200 still...

[MHD]

Things that impress me:
8mp CMOS
Battery Grip
MLU

Things that dont:
Smaller and lighter
Still a non AFS/USM kit lens... f/5.6@55mm
same old design flaw: Open CF door loose buffer
Looking at the waveforms here:
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos350d/page6.asp
The d70 is still faster in RAW and JPEG

Sorry, not a d70 slayer

[gstark]

Scott,

Yes, but also no centre spot metering.

The lens is a cosmetic (only, apparently) rework of the original one offerred with the 300D. Curiously, there is a USM version of the lens available to the Japanese market.

It's now basically the camera that the original 300D should have been, but (sadly) the current 300D pricing seems about right for this new offering, which is going to be about the same cost as the D70.

[MHD]

Scott,

Yes, but also no centre spot metering.

You're joking right... How the hell are you meant to do without that!?!?!?!!

Whatbout when you shoot a wedding?

Tell me the 20D has spot...

Does the 350D have so spot at all, so only matrix (or cannon equiv) and centre weighted?

[georgie]

The lens is a cosmetic (only, apparently) rework of the original one offerred with the 300D. Curiously, there is a USM version of the lens available to the Japanese market.

Personally, I think this is the weakest part of the package. A vast majority of 1st time buyers will only use the Kit lens and they are selling themselves short with an ordinary lens like this.

Maybe they should have offered the 17-85 IS lens as a kit option like the 20D. That would have been a much better buy.

[gstark]

Scott,

Scott,

Yes, but also no centre spot metering.

You're joking right... How the hell are you meant to do without that!?!?!?!!

Whatbout when you shoot a wedding?

Tell me the 20D has spot...

I wish I was joking, but no. And no spot metering on the 20D either.

For a wedding, just wander right up to bride and poke the camera in her face to get a base center-weighted reading. Switch to manual and go from there.

[gstark]

Georgie,

I agree.

Sadly, it will be up to those photographic experts in places like Ted's and Hardly Normal to be able to understand and explain the differences to the punters.

And sadly, it'll most likely come across as a salesperson's grab for more sales $$$, rather than as a genuine technical difference between the lenses.

Still, the camera is made down to a price, and many of the punters to whom it's targetted won't be able to appreciate the differences anyway.

[Nnnnsic]

At Hardly Normal, it'll probably come down to "What's a Digital SLR? Oh... THEM! Right! Oh yes, we can sell you one of them!"

At Fletcher's, it'll probably come down to "Well obviously 8 megapixel is better then 6 megapixel, so buy the Canon."

At Ted's, it'll probably come down to "Well, while the Canon is smaller and lighter and has a slightly larger image size of 8 megapixel, it's still lacking some of the more professional focusing features and image save times that the D70 does have."

At Vanbar, it'll probably come down to "Uhhh... sorry... we don't sell Canon here. Buy the Nikon."

[Link]

When I tried both camera (300D and D70) prior to make my choice last year, it was the speed that was decisive... No way I would miss a shot because of a few seconds to power the camera, or because the buffer was filling too fast.

So I basically think Canon did a good job with that 350D, and the fact they pump up a couple more of MPs will certainly boost their sales and reward them financially.

As everybody mentionned here, the difference between 8mp and 6mp seems technically almost non-existent, but I believe it's a strong marketing tool - especially if you consider the large market of people who never owned a SLR, enjoyed their digital P&S, and now want to upgrade to a digital SLR.

Looking at a digital P&S catalogue, the first criteria to distinguish camera is the number of megapixels; and I expect a lot of consummers to keep that in mind when they upgrade to a digital SLR.

I've learned a lot since I have acquired my D70, come to appreciate the superior quality of the 18-70mm, and discovered how spot metering could guarantee my subject would be properly exposed. If I was to invest over 1K in a camera, I would want spot metering. But I'm not going to invest 1K in any similar camera now that my D70 is already way ahead of my need!

As a D70 user, I thank Canon for bringing renewed competition to the market. I'm sure people out there will not share my feelings, but please have a spare thought for all those who've bought an expensive Canon 20D for the only reason they needed the extra-speed (instant power up) they couldn't find in the 300D: I think they're the ones who must feel very bad at this announcement.

Link.

[Onyx]

I think they're targetting this at the low price *ist DS - especially the decision to make their new entry level small and lighter and more PHD like. The battery now common with their Powershot S series, when previously IIRC the battery was shared with their more "prosumer" G series cams.

It's good that it has finally got some adjustability to justify its lens interchangeability. Still, ISOs only selectable in full stops, but gains some image parameter adjustments to perhaps 80% of the options available in the D70. 300D owners probably have reason to upgrade, as well as steal a few sales from the high priced PHD market.

[Matt. K]

But get this...it has a smaller viewfinder!

Is that a feature we'd all die for? Less room for dust Sir!

[lukeo]

I've held the 300D and Nikon D70, and the Nikon F5 ... the 300D feels so tacky. At least with nikon gear you know you have a solid camera you could club a would be attacker with.

The 350D's only feature I consider of any note is the Mirror Lockup, yes it would be nice, the 300D has it too and I am not running out to buy one of those.

8 Megapixels is just fruit. With a digital image being made up of square shaped pixels to get double the image quality you need 4 times the resolution, (does this make sense? you need 4 pixels instead of one to retain the required square shape). If it was 18 Megapixels well then ... I think only some medium format DSLR's are up around 20megapixels so far.

The D70 has so many better features that if they arn't going to release another camera come PMA then they had had better at least launch an "awareness" campaign about the D70's superior features.

Just my Humble Opinion.

[MHD]

The D70 has so many better features that if they arn't going to release another camera come PMA then they had had better at least luanch an "awareness" campaign about the D70's superior features.

Just my Humble Opinion.

Indeed

[lukeo]

Did you have to quote me before I could fix my spelling mistake?

[redline]

honesty, if we going to be caught up with upgrading cameras and lenses everytime something new comes out. it going to be a never ending cycle...unless you don't have money or have buyer reget.

i say just go out there take pictures!

[xerubus]

i'm with redline on this one...

[birddog114]

honesty, if we going to be caught up with upgrading cameras and lenses everytime something new comes out. it going to be a never ending cycle...unless you don't have money or have buyer reget.

i say just go out there take pictures!

Well said! and I'm totally agreed! Get out of the roof and shoot everythings until the camera turns into a piece of paperweight. It's same as computer age.
If you can afford it! buy it! and get out shooting! The D100/ D1 or D10 still take a good photos and brought back hapiness to all
The D70 is still giving you lot of learning curves!

[MHD]

Ok this is my last bash in this thread but I have done more reading on the kit lens (which is optically the same as the drebel lens)

18-55 3.5-5.6
1 aspherical element
no ED (or whatever Canon calls it)
58mm filter thread...

http://www.photo.net/equipment/canon/efs18-55/

I think this is a major shortcoming and a bad descision on Cannons part..

If you want the camera to compete with the D70... give it a kit lens to compete with...

[goodrich62]

I just checked my pulse
I am still alive and so is my D70
If this is the killer maybe I'm imortal
I still have too much to lean to worry about upgrading

[georgie]

According to Canon Australia the RRP for the 350D with 18-55 is $1899.

How much is Birddog selling the D70 with Kit lens for?

[lukeo]

With Kit? Don't you mean with 24 - 120VR?

That is quiet a hefty price tag, (up there with retail d70) but don't forget said salesmen at Harvey Norman will be pushing it with it's "vastly superior" 8MP... and the 18-55 lense which doesn't get the best wrap. Anyone think HN or DSE might try selling these with a 28 - 105 equiv. lense for even cheaper just to get the sucker on the "it's a longer lense so it must be better" angle?

Personally what i want to get has in no way changed.

[gstark]

it going to be a never ending cycle...

Whilstever there is a marketing dweeb that is vertical and drawing breath, sadly, this will be the case.

They have to justify their pitiful excuse for existence, unfortunately.

[lukeo]

THe 350D has
• RAW + JPEG Large/Fine *

I must say this would be a nice piece of fruit for nikon to unlock with a firmware update to the D70

[birddog114]

you guy make me buy a Canon 350D tomorrow
Stop it please! my D70/ D100/ D2h/ soon D2x are beautiful cameras!

[MHD]

comparing d2X to thje 350D is like the new airbus A380 to a hang-glider

I cant wait to drop round to your place and check it out!

[Matty B]

It's my democratic right to say that Canon can't be seriously pushing the new Dribble thing to those looking for value for $ whilst still pushing that same lens out front. Anyone seeking to justify spending hard fought for dollars will go the 20D route and work harder for a better lens - or alternativly see the light and fork out for a D70 + Kit. Again my 20 cents worth. Better late than never!

Cheers,

[birddog114]

It's my democratic right to say that Canon can't be seriously pushing the new Dribble thing to those looking for value for $ whilst still pushing that same lens out front. Anyone seeking to justify spending hard fought for dollars will go the 20D route and work harder for a better lens - or alternativly see the light and fork out for a D70 + Kit. Again my 20 cents worth. Better late than never!

Cheers,

Matty,
these posts make me think of jumping ship and my Dxxxs will be orphans and all my Nikon lenses turn into paperweights am I missing the yellow and black

[gstark]

I've been having fun on DPR, playing the part of D70 troll. Admittedly in the D70 forums only; don't want to be accusied of stirring things up.

Well, not too much.

[birddog114]

I've been having fun on DPR, playing the part of D70 troll. Admittedly in the D70 forums only; don't want to be accusied of stirring things up.

Well, not too much.

Gary,
I like it! more to enjoy in this part of life! we need to have more troll overthere, or send all of them to the other side of the world, not here! in our peaceful territory.

[Onyx]

Gary, I read some of your posts there... gotta say, you're a good sh^+ stirrer.

[stubbsy]

Just ducked over to dpreview to find Gary's posts and found this little gem D70 SUCKS! I'm selling it - well worth a read  PS can I say ducked?

[gstark]

Peter,

Yes, the orinator of that thread is obviously having a bit of fun.

Onyx, who, me ??

[birddog114]

Just ducked over to dpreview to find Gary's posts and found this little gem D70 SUCKS! I'm selling it - well worth a read  PS can I say ducked?

Exactly right! I do have same problems with that guy! perhaps I'll jump ship
- To much noise! the volume knob on my son PC speaker was broken and he always plays "rap" music loudly!.
- Spot meter on Nikon cameras ruined all my photos! damm Nikon!
- Back focus make my daughter cried, cos her face look sharp and beauti skintone but the background was blurred (bokeh).
- My wife wants more megapixel on the camera, cos the super A3 prints from Matt.K were too sharp and clarity so she worries about my CC will be cut in half cos the lens lust.
- I want ISO 10 or 00 but unhappy cos Nikon can't give it to me.
So please help!

[goodrich62]

Gary,
Keep it up I expect to see some of the Glass I'm lusting over on E-Bay soon as people bail