D300 vs Fuji S5?

[feldy]

Hi guys - does anyone know much about the Fuji DSLR's in relation to optical performance of Nikon range?

As long-time Nikon person, I guess i've never really considered other brands, but it seems to me that Fuji are the 'quiet performers' of the DSLR scene - in fact everyone who's ever had any contact with them speaks highly of them; however what i've heard is mainly anecdotal.

Just interested if anyone actually knows of any authoritative comparisons [before I consider upgrading to D300]?

cheers

-F

[Yi-P]

Feldy,
Couple questions to ask yourself:

1) Is 6fps or 8fps at 12MPx sound anything to you?
2) Does super accurate AF and those brandy new 51pt AF matter to you?
3) Does better WB and faster processing mean anything to you?
----
4) Does 'film type' processing in camera mean anything to you?
5) Do you need the extra high dynamic range in your images?





===============================
If you can answer Q1-Q3 with a resounding 'yes' go for the D300 straight away.
If you are tossing Q1-Q3 with Q4/5 you might be better off with the S5

If you are after a high ISO machine, both can satisfy you, but I believe the D300 serves you better in overall.

[feldy]

Hi Yi-P - thanks for that - I guess my key interest is the performance of Fuji's unique type of sensor vs the new CMOS for the D300 [vs CCD in the D200].

I had read the previous threads about noise [comparing the D300 vs S5] but it was specifically a comparison of the performance of the different type of sensor systems that I was hoping someone could enlighten me on...

[Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, but I didn't see it in a quick search]

tx
-F

[aim54x]

the D300 rocks, but if ur a wedding photographer, the S5 is probably the camera for u.

I am trying to get my hands on a S5 to try out, I own a D300, so when i do I can compare and report

[feldy]

went for the D300 [couldn't resist] - now I'll have to find out how to use the damn thing!!

F

[aim54x]

You will work it out soon enough mate. it is surprisingly easy to use!!

[seeto.centric]

coming from a D70s, things took a while to get used to for me. now when i have to use the D70s, things seem so different.

use the new toy more often!

-j

[Pehpsi]

How's the weight difference from the D70s to the D300? Is there much in it?

[feldy]

I must admit to having changed my views on weight over the past couple of years... I always used to prefer a solid [or should I say heavy] body - somehow it didn't seem to be a 'real' camera, if it didn't have a certain body mass.

However, with the new generation of digital SLRs I have to admit to having had a change of opinion - for me the D70 was a perfect weight, and unlike most of the guys here I'm not in love with the dimensions/ergonomics - specifically [physical] depth and weight of the D300.

What changed my view was actually the Canon 350D - I needed a backup camera in a hurry, and just fell in love with the feel of this little baby - lovely ergonomics, lite weight, but still a 'real camera' . I guess it was this in hindsight that changed my views as to the ideal weight, and have to admit to feeling that Nikon's been a little behind in this area [also still none of the prosumer Nikons match the beautiful shutter release of the Canons, in my view].

So love the D300 for its specs but I feel it's just a little deep in the body, and dare I say it, a little heavier than I would like.

-F

[aim54x]

also still none of the prosumer Nikons match the beautiful shutter release of the Canons, in my view

have you felt the shutter release on the Canon EOS 40D???? I have played with a few and I swear, and this is backed up by a friend who is a long time Canon user, that there is vibration, not huge, but noticable, and not present on the 30D, that runs through the body of the 40D when u hit the shutter. This has been found on all the 40D bodies that we have gotten our hands on.

No such problems on the D300!!

[feldy]

Hi Aim - no haven't had a chance to play with the 40D. Having said that, I've had a D70 a D200 and a D300, and none of them has the beautiful, refined, shutter release of the 350D!

-F

[aim54x]

So excited!! i should be gettin a S5 Pro on loan very soon!!

never played with a EOS 350D, but i do know that the Sony Alpha A700 has a really nice shutter

[kab]

For those interested, there was a link on LL regarding the Fuji S5 going for $999 CAD.
That seems like a sensaish price and it looks like the ship internationally (See link below)

http://www.henrys.com/webapp/wcs/stores ... mID=187805

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with this retailer

[devilla101]

have you felt the shutter release on the Canon EOS 40D???? I have played with a few and I swear, and this is backed up by a friend who is a long time Canon user, that there is vibration, not huge, but noticable, and not present on the 30D, that runs through the body of the 40D when u hit the shutter. This has been found on all the 40D bodies that we have gotten our hands on.

No such problems on the D300!!

Geez here we go again, the sound of a Nikon fanboy

To get back on the topic, In my opinion I would think with the new tech inside the D300 it would be a wiser purchase over the Fuji S5.

14 bit, AF points, exceptional iso performance, sweet screen etc etc.

If money is not an issue I reckon go with the D300. It will be more versatile even outside the wedding photography realm.

[wider]

i used to sell cameras during my uni days up until the 40d was released, and i really dont see how some people like the ergonomics of the slightly older canons! the shutter sounds cheap too... maybe im missing something.

nikon just have that 'premium' feel in their comparatively priced cameras at the consumer level.

besides, i have lost a bit of trust in canon recently with the flopped mark1d3 AF mechanism and the 40d that does "6.5fps" (only above 1/500 or something?) and has been proven to just reach around 6.0fps... trying not to be a total nikon fanboy

[feldy]

sounds like I must have just been lucky with the 350D - someone has since told me that this is considered superior in a number of ways to teh 400D, and as I mentioned above, haven't tried the 40D.

Having said this, I was one of the first in the country to get the D70, and have always been disappointed with 'feel' of the shutter release, and to be honest, I didn't feel the D200 was much smoother. I feel like I can detect a slight difference with the D300, although it's such a fine difference, that it's getting pretty subjective - but I still maintain the ergonomics and feel of the 350D are fantastic!

Back to the original topic, does anyone have any substantive information as to the composition of the Fuji S5 chip [ie their 'system'], and whether their system is actually superior, or not?

-F

[chrisk]

lol everything from the "ergonomics of a 350d are fantastic" to arguing about the feel of a shutter release had me laughin for quite a while.

[feldy]

Really?

I've had the least camera shake on the 350D than I've ever had - from Nikkormat, to Canon AE1, to F90X, to D70, to D200 through to D300. The only camera that i've got that even comes close is my non SLR [film] Leica. I guess you're either super-human, or only use a tripod.

-F

[chrisk]

lol ok mate. my mistake, i stand corrected.
the 350d is the benchmark by which all dslr's should be measured. lol

"they don;t make 'em like that anymore son."

[feldy]

after that amazing demonstration of logic [if anything, it would be the Leica against which the others are measured]...

...still interested if anyone can shed much light of the validity or otherwise of Fuji's 'magic' chip system, vs standard CCD or CMOS.

-F

[Dargan]

Not Sure but I thought Bindii (Sue Kime photgraphy) had one of these and would be best to give a users perspective. From what I have seen of them when used for portrait work, they looked quite impressive.

[feldy]

that's great thanks; will definitely follow up on that Dargan.

[aim54x]

I must chase up that S5 PRO, seeing this thread again reminded me of it.

NOTE TO SELF: Call Fuji rep and ask to borrow S5 again.

[Bindii]

Sorry but I don't know anything about the Fuji DSLR's in relation to optical performance of Nikon range?..

all I do know is that I lurve my Fuji S5pro... *strokes the fuji lovingly*..

[diamondblast]

Sorry but I don't know anything about the Fuji DSLR's in relation to optical performance of Nikon range?..

all I do know is that I lurve my Fuji S5pro... *strokes the fuji lovingly*..

hi
why do you love so much your Fuji?
I had it, and I couldn't handle it very well or at all
I prefer my canon or Nikon (I've many models)

[aim54x]

Sorry but I don't know anything about the Fuji DSLR's in relation to optical performance of Nikon range?..

all I do know is that I lurve my Fuji S5pro... *strokes the fuji lovingly*..

hi
why do you love so much your Fuji?
I had it, and I couldn't handle it very well or at all
I prefer my canon or Nikon (I've many models)

Well I should probably answer that question, now that I own a D300 and have (almost, little sisters little used camera) a S5 Pro. The menu on the S5 Pro is SHIT compared to the D300, but what it can do with dynamic range and colour are simply amazing. The auto WB is also much better. The S5 has its idiosyncrasies but I cannot deny that it has won me over as a camera. I'll live with the slow speed, the clunky menu because the results that you can coax out of it (not requiring much effort I find) simply out weigh the negatives.

I shoot in MANUAL and spent half an hour setting up the camera so it is as similar to my standard set up operationally so I in effect bypass the worst of the menus. Feels much like a D300 but not quite (but some of the buttons are placed differently).

Cheers

[hamster]

the s5 pro sensor makes sense, but i'm a little more curious about the other resolution you get.

[aim54x]

the s5 pro sensor makes sense, but i'm a little more curious about the other resolution you get.

Other resolution? At heart the S5 pro is 6.14MP but interpolates up to 12MP (the raw is 6MP) not sure how they do it but 12mp looks damn good out of that camera.

I remember you once said to me that the S5 Pro was 'crap' and that you had 'used everything Nikon' why the sudden interest??

[hamster]

I was asking about the interpolation. And it's crap for me in the sense that it doesnt' suit me or what i do, but i can still ask about it, can't I?

[aim54x]

And it's crap for me in the sense that it doesnt' suit me or what i do

That was not what I got from that conversation, it seemed like the emphasis was "crap" full stop. As to not suiting what you do, I wont judge that, each to his own.

But on the interpolation, I hope I have helped you out on that. 6MP RAW files that get magically interpolated to 12MP with no obvious drop in quality when compared to the 12MP off a D300 (I have printed 12x18" off the S5 Pro - keeping in mind 1:1 is about 14.3" from the 4288 pixels of a D300 and 14.2" from the 4256 pixels ('interpolated' 12MP JPG) off the S5 Pro). I have read that it may be due to the arrangement of the photosites on that sensor (honeycomb vs grid-like) but cant think of where I read that. I dont really care, it does the job and a damn good one at that.

[ABG]

Cameron,

If you could only choose one camera - the D300 or the S5 Pro - which would it be, and why?

[aim54x]

That is a hard one.

I love the S5 Pro for what I can coax out of it, but the menus are clunky and it is slow, I love the D300 because it does everything well and is really really usable.

Between the two:

I would happily take a S5 Pro and spend the extra $1000 on good glass (AF-S 24-70mm f/2.8 since your going to spend some money on glass for a D300 already!), but that is only because I rarely shoot out of the single shot mode and the extra dynamic range, better WB and richer colours of the S5 Pro are sooooo nice.

If you need a utility camera then get the D300, I still use this a lot more than the S5 Pro (mainly because the S5 is my little sisters). It has better AF and has a slight edge in high ISO performance, making it a better machine for everyday use.

In short, if you take portraits, landscapes and macro ONLY then S5 Pro (be aware that there is a bit of a learning curve), but if you dapple in sports, PJ or wildlife as well then grab the D300.

Hope this helps!

(Give me 2 S5 Pros and I'll give you my D300!- tax on the emotional attachment!)

[aim54x]

We should really get back to the original topic, I just realised that this has digressed so far from it, and that the original question regarding optical performance of a S5 Pro Vs D300 has yet to be answered.

I have to admit that I cant claim to know that much about sensor design, but from what I have heard CMOS are more prone to noise that CCD but are more power efficient. The Super CCD SR (Super dynamic Range) in the S5 Pro utilises a different design with octagonal photodiode pairs, 12 million odd photodiodes forming 6 million odd pairs (6 million odd photosites), arranged in a honeycomb pattern. Each pair consists of a larger more sensitive photodiode and a smaller less sensitive photodiode to record two images, a lighter and darker image to (almost like a HDR) provide better highlight and shadow detail. (I have made it an issue to try and understand the SuperCCD).

Dynamic range answered, colour? Well from my understanding, the honeycomb pattern wastes less space on the sensor, allowing the photosites and therefore the photodiodes to be bigger, capturing more light, add in Fuji's colour management knowledge (they only make the some of the best film and commercial printing machines) this gives the S5 Pro (and other SuperCCD + Real Photo Engine cameras) the edge in colour.

It appears that these advantages over CMOS (and CCD) stand with any comparable sensor.

Two final notes:
-NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH SUPERCCD HR (High Resolution - used in compact cameras - just octagonal honeycomb structure, no photodiode pairing)
-I am excited with the announcement of SUPERCCD EXR (apparently combines SUPERCCD SR and SUPERCCD HR)