Crema Challenge Revisited.

[gstark]

As many of you would know, Feldy, a member here, publishes Crema Magazine, which is a high quality lifestyle magazine with a strong bent towards good coffee. And many of you, like me, enjoy a good cup of coffee, as well as good photography.

Early last year we tried to run a challenge with sme different prizes, sponsored by Feldy. Despite the poor response, we still think this is a worthwhile idea, and so, being the masochists that we are, we're goi ng to try to give this another go.

Again this challenge combines our love of good coffee with our love of photography: the prize will be publication in the next issue of Crema Magazine. What's on offer is a full page for the winner, a half page for the runner up, and a quarter page for the third place getter.

The theme for this challenge is that the image must be set in a commercial setting, and it must depict either the relationship between the customer and their coffee, or the relationship between the customer and the coffee shop. How this is depicted is open, but it should be evident within the image that the setting is within a commercial environment, and the image needs to try to depict one the other of these relationships. If you have any doubts with respect to your image concept, then please ask one of the mods for help.

In making your shots, please keep in mind that these are for publication in a lifestyle magazine. That's a vitally important point to keep in mind in terms of our composition and subject matter.

Judging for this challenge will be by Feldy and myself as the joint judges of the images entered.

Entry for this challenge is as per the usual qualifications, meaning that any full member may enter, excepting of course that, because of the different method of adjudication being used for this challenge, clearly it is not appropriate for either of the admins (or Feldy) to enter. Global actions within Photoshop (or similar PP applications) are permitted.

Images may be uploaded to this gallery. The gallery, and the challenge, is now open. The challenge will close at midnight on May 15.

Any general questions, please ask within this thread ... any specific image related questions should be directed to me via PM. These rules are, as always, subject to review.

Scent Gallery Revealed
Images from the Scent challenge have been revealed (and comments turned on for logged in users) Go and have a look and leave comments... Some very nice images there... Results from the Judging soon!
http://www.potofgrass.com/gallery/c19

[Glen]

Great challenge, hopefully will see some interesting results

[Oz_Beachside]

love to hit this one.

if the shot is a person drinking coffee in, or out front of a shop, would a release be required?

[gstark]

Bruce,

Great question. I would say that if the person is identifiable, then yes.

[sheepie]

Wonderful news guys - and thanks to Feldy for persevering with the idea. I think the timing last time was a bit against us (was in January). This time hopefully we get a great turnout for this unique opportunity.

[myarhidia]

Is there any issues or restrictions with branding, i.e. many coffee shops have their label everywhere, are we supposed to ensure that no label or brand is evident in the image?

[gstark]

Is there any issues or restrictions with branding, i.e. many coffee shops have their label everywhere, are we supposed to ensure that no label or brand is evident in the image?

Good question. I've asked Feldy to answer this one.

[Mr Darcy]

Not my cup of tea I'm sorry.

1. I don't drink coffee.
2. I don't frequent the types of places that pander to addicts of this toxic substance.

Now if it was a winebar

[feldy]

Hi guys - thanks Gary - just responding to the question on branding, which is a very relevant question, especially since the coffee market is extremely competitive and highly profitable coffee companies use their cafes as an opportunity to re-inforce their branding.

I see two scenarios, with quite different answers:
1. The cafe itself - there is no problem whatsover with the cafe's name/brand being part of the pic.
2. The coffee roaster - this is another matter, and have to say requires a bit of a judgement call. Basically, I would differentiate as follows: if the coffee roaster's brand is present but is a subtle and unavoidable element of the image [such as their logo on a coffee cup which a customer is drinking from] that's fine. If it's a major part of the shot, where it dominates the image [such as a large logo on an umbrella or windbreak outside the cafe] - then it's not.

As is clear, there's a little bit of judgement involved, but hope that's clear; Gary happy to have any extra definition from you on this, if you feel that would be helpful.

cheers
-F

[ozczecho]

Not my cup of tea I'm sorry.

1. I don't drink coffee.
2. I don't frequent the types of places that pander to addicts of this toxic substance.

Now if it was a winebar

hehehe....and winebars full of winos is your preferred scene

All in moderation.

[Reschsmooth]

Hi guys - thanks Gary - just responding to the question on branding, which is a very relevant question, especially since the coffee market is extremely competitive and highly profitable coffee companies use their cafes as an opportunity to re-inforce their branding.

I see two scenarios, with quite different answers:
1. The cafe itself - there is no problem whatsover with the cafe's name/brand being part of the pic.
2. The coffee roaster - this is another matter, and have to say requires a bit of a judgement call. Basically, I would differentiate as follows: if the coffee roaster's brand is present but is a subtle and unavoidable element of the image [such as their logo on a coffee cup which a customer is drinking from] that's fine. If it's a major part of the shot, where it dominates the image [such as a large logo on an umbrella or windbreak outside the cafe] - then it's not.

As is clear, there's a little bit of judgement involved, but hope that's clear; Gary happy to have any extra definition from you on this, if you feel that would be helpful.

cheers
-F

So Ashley, no gold Faema's and gold Mazzers?

[gstark]

Gary happy to have any extra definition from you on this, if you feel that would be helpful.

That's fine by me.

If anybody is unsure, they can ask for guidance. Upload your image to the site, and send a PM to Scott (MHD) asking for a ruling. Scott can make a ruling himself, or he can let Ashley and myself look at the image anonymously - so as to not affect the judging - and we can take it from there.

[Mr Darcy]

hehehe....and winebars full of winos is your preferred scene

All in moderation.

NEVER I want all that gorgeous stuff to myself

[feldy]

Hi guys - just a footnote on the branding thing - I guess I don't want it to be too prescriptive.

I guess the way i see it is this - a cafe is often a place where people meet, so perhaps it provides the opportunity to capture people relationships; it's also a place where people take time out, so someone may be alone and in a reflective mood - to me it's whatever sums up that mood, but as I said, apart from not commercialising with coffee company logos, it's not something I want to be a restrictive thing...apart from that it's really up to you!

F

[Killakoala]

Is this challenge restricted to DSLRs or can I shoot it on film and scan it for upload ???? I always felt that coffee looks best in B&W on Ilford FP4.

[phillipb]

Just one question,
Since this challenge has no prizes as such and the winning photo is for publication in a magazine, what is the reasoning behind the "no pp" rule?
These days, with current software such as lightroom, you can make extensive changes to a Raw file before you save it as jpeg and you can basically be within the pp guidelines anyway, so why the restriction?

[mattyjacobs]

and can we please get some constructive criticism from the last time we ran the challenge? maybe there was some given eventually, if there was, sorry I missed it.

just so we're not all entering the same types of photos, which obviously weren't good enough.

[feldy]

Hi Matty - fair point; the bottom line is we didn't get a good enough selection of great pics; Gary and I put this down pretty much to our fault - that is that we ran it at a time when most people were away [January] at short notice, and with only a short window - from memory only two weeks - with no chance of an extension.

F

[mattyjacobs]

So basically it didn't work out because there were only five (from memory) entries?

Because I got the impression that it was more than that, that the entries weren't of a good enough standard. If I was to enter this comp again, I'd like to know how I can improve on last time.

[surenj]

Could I ask whether global PP means that one can run Nikon EFEX filters?

[gstark]

So basically it didn't work out because there were only five (from memory) entries?

Only five entries, and none of them were of the standard that we expected.

[sirhc55]

Going into a commercial establishment for this kind of shot is not everyones cup of tea - it’s not exactly easy these days, on private property, to get the kind of shots required for a quality magazine.

IMHO one needs to have some experience in dealing with cafe owners, customers and then the shot itself.

[mattyjacobs]

and none of them were of the standard that we expected.

what would make images 'of the standard you expect'?

[gstark]

and none of them were of the standard that we expected.

what would make images 'of the standard you expect'?

That's for you to deduce, I'm afraid. Hint: the winning images are for publication in a nationally published lifestyle magazine.

I just went and reviewed the gallery for the original attempt at this.

It's true that there were five entries. Only three of those came close to approaching something like what I would consider acceptable. Consider subject matter, consider appropriateness, consider "nationally published" and consider "lifestyle magazine".

While I said that only three came close to being acceptable, I will also tell you that three images, IMHO, excluded themselves too.

No, I'm not telling you which ones; this is where commonsense needs to play hand.

[Alpha_7]

I looked and only saw 1 that might be close. (And Katie and I both have entries in there, that I'm pretty ashamed of, quality wise they are both shit!)

[surenj]

Agree with everyone about the quality of the previous entries but have no idea on how to improve on these... [...puts thinking hat on...]
Might be tough to produce a magazine style without a few lights, assistants and full co-operation from the coffee shop...

[mattyjacobs]

Agree with everyone about the quality of the previous entries but have no idea on how to improve on these...

that was where I was stuck. But thanks for the kind of explanation anyway.

[surenj]

Looking at some coffee adverts may help...

[gstark]

Agree with everyone about the quality of the previous entries but have no idea on how to improve on these...

that was where I was stuck. But thanks for the kind of explanation anyway.

If it was too easy, would it be a challenge?

One other observation: we're supposed to be creative. I'd respectfully suggest that there's lots of angles this could be viewed from.

[feldy]

Hi guys - firstly thanks to Gary for answering most of these questions on both of our behalf; however...

Agree with everyone about the quality of the previous entries but have no idea on how to improve on these... [...puts thinking hat on...]
Might be tough to produce a magazine style without a few lights, assistants and full co-operation from the coffee shop...

- suggest you refer to my previous post, 4 or 5 posts above; i simply don't think it's that complicated.

Took a quick look at the gallery from last time
- only two show any relationship between the customer and his/her cafe or the customer and his/her coffee;
- two are blatantly commercial: sorry, but I'm not going to show a full-on McCafe logo in a high quality coffee magazine [if you can't work out why, I can't help you]; and Matty - assume this was your shot - the Pioneer Coffee cup [love Pioneer Coffee in Qld, by the way] certainly doesn't show much of relationship with the customer!
- finally we're not a grunge street mag; I can't really show a shot of a syringe with a coffee in a high-quality consumer lifestyle magazine...

Otherwise, I have to say, I'm not sure it's that complicated, and in fact I would have thought, the opportunity to showcase some great work!

F  PS would be very happy for b&w by the way; Gary please correct me but I'm not worried about process - I'm quite happy for you to shoot on film and scan.

[surenj]

See what you mean Feldy... It wouldn't be impossible to create a nice image with your criteria with limited resources. I have seen enough skill and creativity in this forum to prove it.

[mattyjacobs]

and Matty - assume this was your shot - the Pioneer Coffee cup [love Pioneer Coffee in Qld, by the way] certainly doesn't show much of relationship with the customer!

you didn't get the reference to this?



and you didn't notice the love heart ... barista makes his coffee with love for his cutomer?

even just a lingering touch as the barista hands the coffee to his customer?

[gstark]

Everybody,

We've had this overanalysis of challenge themes in the past, and to be quite honest, I am well and truly over it. Most of the questions I've seen here add nothing to the communal wisdom, nor do they add anything to the challenge.

If you want to enter the challenge, then let's just get on with the job of making your images.

If you have a genuine question, please ask it, but otherwise, start thinking about your shot, and just do it!

And if you cannot understand this challenge's theme, then please, just wait for the next one.

[olrac]

Can we submit more than one entry?

[gstark]

Can we submit more than one entry?

Carlo,

Sorry, no.

[Justin]

And shots of the moderators not allowed as entries either

[gstark]

FYI, Samsung have their entry done now too.

Check out the ad for Samsung on ... was it page 4 ? .... of the Sydney Life (or somesuch) magazine that came with yesterday's SMH. I've also seen that they're using a similar image in their new tv ad. Shame - that disqualified their photo entry.

[ozimax]

I have a photo to submit, I've forgotten my login details (including login name), does anyone know how I can get those details back please?
Thanks.

[radar]

I have a photo to submit, I've forgotten my login details (including login name), does anyone know how I can get those details back please?
Thanks.

send a PM to MHD and he'll sort it out for you.

cheers,

André

[MHD]

Just a bump and a reminder to get your entries in!

[feldy]

HI Justin - not wanting to prejudice the results in any way, but this is much more like it - great pic!

[Justin]

haha thanks feldy. Outside of the comp, you are welcome to it, and the colour version as well if you have the need. It was taken a couple of years ago so is totally ineligible.

[feldy]

Hi guys - not sure if I've mastered the technology [this is the first time i've loaded an image] but here is something that i hope provides a little inspiration - not taken with lights, or any other props http://www.flickr.com/photos/26360493@N04/2472734373/.

-F PS Justin - thanks for the offer - will keep in mind
PPS will read FAQ, but if anyone wants to make any suggestions as to the best image hosting system, will be much appreciated !

[olrac]

Has anything happened with this challenge yet?

[zafra52]

Justin, that is a nice composition but is it a crema entry? It looks to me more like a cafe latte with the froth of the milk. Crema to me is the brown froth floating on the coffee or clinging to the sides of the cap. Anyway, is ithe challenge on again?

[zafra52]

By the way, I tried to login in that forun but my username and password is not recognised. Do I need to apply for one?

[Reschsmooth]

What happened with this challenge? Perhaps I missed another thread with the results?