WHATS WRONG WITH OUR COMPETITIONS?

[Matt. K]

This forum recently ran one of its regular 'challenges' with a theme of painting with light. The forum has over 2000 members but only 9 bothered to enter the challenge! What's going on? Further....the prizes were brilliant! Wolf-eye tactical torches are expensive and just to die for! These are real boys toys....so why the paucity of entries? Are you all so lacking in confidence that you don't think you have a chance? Or are you all so pressed for time that you can't spare a couple of hours to get creative? Is there something intrinsically difficult about posting the images on the forum or is there some other reason that you all stay away in droves from putting your best efforts forward? Think of the work that goes on behind the scenes to get these activities rolling...and Glen's unbelievable generosity in donating nearly $400 worth of prizes....then ask yourself, "Perhaps I could be a bit more involved in helping to maintain one of the best forums in the world. After all, I enjoy being a member".
I'd be very glad to get some feedback from you and perhaps discuss how we can improve member participation in future.....Start thinking.

[Raskill]

Personally I hardly have time to post anymore, let alone take photos. I find the only time I get behind the camera these days is for paying jobs trackside.

I can't criticise anyone for not entering a comp, cause I haven't done it very much, maybe once or twice. I think there is more to supporting this forum than entering comps though, simply posting on this site contributes to it's success.

Ironically, seeing I didn't enter the comp, my own tactical torch died. I guess thats Karma

Glen, I'll be in contact soon!

[wheels]

9? Is that it? I had plans to enter ('cause I'm quite the fan of a torch you can smash things with AND temporarily disorientate people with!! ) but unfortunately I'm not an actual member yet (post count etc). Had I known there were only 9 I mighta just started posting inane stuff

[phillipb]

Here are my thoughts,
I have very little spare time to devote to the challenges or anything photographic for that matter, but I have only missed 1 challenge since the beginning. The reason for this is purely selfish and that is I enjoy it. Makes no difference to me whether there are any prizes on offer or not - although having been the recipient of one in this last comp, I'm extremely appreciative of Glen's generosity.
So perhaps people just don't enjoy entering comps.
With regards to themes, to me that is what makes it fun, having to come up with something to fit the theme is a lot more rewarding than just picking a photo that I've taken recently to put in an open competition.

[biggerry]

but unfortunately I'm not an actual member yet (post count etc)

[Cre8tivepixels]

I know i would never get a look in due to past 'indiscretions' so i wont enter. I would like too

[phillipb]

I know i would never get a look in due to past 'indiscretions' so i wont enter. I would like too

It's anonymous

Take another look at your signature line Dan

[Biggzie]

Well I picked up a virus that attacked my eyes, & just after I got over that I broke my toe so I didnt get much of a chance to enter.

[radar]

wheels and biggerry,

you are both members. It says so above your avatar. That's all you need to participate. If you don't have an account on the site to submit your photo, it is just a matter of sending a PM to MHD and away you go

Matt, I really thought there would be a larger number of entries in this comp. I have seen lots of good light painting photos on these forums and as you said, the prizes were great.

One of the things that would help, I think, is to have the challenge gallery linked to the site so that you don't need a separate user name to access the galleries on Scott's (MHD) site. That way, if you are logged in on the forums, if you go to the gallery, you can submit your photo without having to log in. I know it is not much extra effort but sometimes, that's all it takes.

The challenges I haven't entered were mostly due to the fact that I ran out of time. I do make an effort to enter the challenges as I find that it can push me out of my comfort zone or to try something different.

I will also be curious to see what you get on this topic,

cheers,

André

[LIVE4EVA]

These competitions do seem quite a difficult task, especially to us newer members...
I had plans for a shoot but just never managed to take something that i found was worth entering..
It is rather intimidating to be compared to the likes of some of the senior posters, but at the same time it is a challenge for us to work harder and capture something really worth entering.
Just my opinion but like i said once i have something i think might be some challenge i will enter it.
Thanks
Greg

[aim54x]

If it was only 9 entries last time i think i will try to put something into the current and/or next ones. I just didnt have much of a chance to shoot for the last one, and a belief that there would be heaps of entries.

[Willy wombat]

The comps are a great idea, but they dont get the buzz around the forum that they used to. I only get ten minutes a few days a week on this site these days. They are also hard to enter. Some people may criticise this statement but I find the off site and uploading and voting a bit of problem. Not taking anything away from Scott, his efforts are fantastic, but the process is a bit complicated.

[stetner]

Time, I have just started getting time to read the forums again lately, and have only been shooting underwater for the last while.

The confidence thing comes into it too sort of. I think that to stand a chance would I would take too much time creating something because I see how good others are here.....

But mainly time....

Doug

[andy]

As a first timer I did find the process of signing up and lodging the photo a bit hard. I am very keen for the competitions though - firstly because it gives me a 'reason' to go and shoot, and second the feedback (or 'number of views') tells me if my photography is on the right track. Plus the chance of winning a mad torch!!. I suppose easier processes may make the first timers feel more welcome.

The calibre of the photos that show up here day to day also makes it hard to feel as though photos are worth entering!

Overall i'm happy with the setup of the comps though, and hope to see more people join in in the future.

[surenj]

I have loved the challenge of photographing something with a theme... Usually I just randomly snap away and hope for a keeper...

[SteveGriffin]

I always try and enter the challenges but find it quite daunting. The standard here is very high. I have just won the local club comp for prints and projected images but don't even come close here.

I am not suggesting that the standard should drop here but it is very high and perhaps that puts some people off entering. PS I find the work presented on this forum very inspirational

[sirhc55]

OK people, listen up. I may be wrong but my recollection is that not one of the challenges has been won by a so called professional. From beginner to old hand has a chance to win and I’m an old hand and a so called professional and have never won a challenge.

The latest challenge has been chosen so that anyone can enter and win. The images and critique section is indicative of the number of photographs that are submitted on a daily basis and from which the POTW is chosen. So if you do submit photographs to that part of the forum, you can also submit them for a challenge.

So I don’t care whether you are taking your first steps into a challenge or an old hand - EVERYONE HAS A CHANCE and I should know, I am a judge.

You might surprise yourself and win

[trotkiller]

I have switched over to shooting mostly film so I don't really shoot much with my DSLR anymore... shame really

These competitions require shots taken with a DSLR to prove when the shot was taken via the exif data right??

Edit: I'm actually charging the battery of the DSLR.... looks like I'll be giving this comp a go...

[DVEous]

... Obsolete ...

[who]

Mostly nothing.

TBH I was going to enter but Masters studies, work and weather conspired to rule me out.

Where I live in NW Tas -- if the wind and rain are up, or just one -- an outdoor shoot (which is where I had ideas for) just won't work. And that hit right after I got rid of the exams and work.......

Others haven't interested me, (eg White on White), or I haven't had the inspiration (I am not an arty person).

As for critique photos -- I first have to take some - I think my 2008 directory jumps from March when I was away until late June where I snapped a few quick frames with the lens I bought here.....

[robert]

I have loved the challenge of photographing something with a theme... Usually I just randomly snap away and hope for a keeper...

I loved the comp as well, it was my first time in a competition and thought I had to enter something really different to stand out. I have learnt that i need to put in what I like best.

Because of the comp, I went out about 3 or 4 times in a month which for me is totally out of the norm.

A suggestion- It might help to see how many have entered- obviously hide the image so others dont advantage from others efforts.


I'm not fussed on prizes- quite honestly I think POTW is very highly regarded (and sought after) and has no prize at all. I kind of think like there is a comp each week for POTW.

While POTW is a good thing, I like the fact that Competitions provide a bit of focus.


For me the big reservation in entering a comp is somehow I think its pointless to enter when i know I wont win. I can imagine the feedback from judges is very helpful and helps you improve, but the fact remains i am not a great photographer.

Robert

[adam]

I wanted to, but was super busy last month

[the foto fanatic]

More than twice as many have responded to this post (so far) as entered the comp.

[TonyT]

When I saw how many entries there were I was suprised and wished I had a go.
I am not sure how to enter and hide the photo etc
Also it has been a crap year so far with work. Which has made be change from being self empolyed for 26 years as a cabinetmakert o a public service and setting in a office for the first time I start on last monday and now learning tricks and hoping I will now have more time on the weekends as I will not been doing paper work and quotes any more.
So next time I will try to enter a photo as I do with Big Reds little comp

Tony

[gstark]

First of all, thank you Matt for asking this question. It bothers me, too, that the participation level is so low.

but unfortunately I'm not an actual member yet (post count etc). Had I known there were only 9 I mighta just started posting inane stuff

Posting inane, garbage, crappy (whatever) messages wot do yourself any favours. However, your post count is > 90, and the basic qualifying requirements are 30 days' membership, 50 posts, an image, and a meaningful location in your profile. Then you just send a PM to myself or one of the mods ...

Biggerry, you've also been to one of our minimeets. We generally regard that as the equivalent of about ten posts; you would have no issues were you to ask.

I know i would never get a look in due to past 'indiscretions' so i wont enter. I would like too

Dan Dan Dan Dan ... You disappoint and upset me with this sort of comment. As Philip points out, the judging is totally anonymous.

Ok, there's three people who have absolutely no excuse whatsoever for not entering the current challenge!

One of the things that would help, I think, is to have the challenge gallery linked to the site so that you don't need a separate user name to access the galleries on Scott's (MHD) site. That way, if you are logged in on the forums,

Andre, we have looked to find a suitable integration of gallery with the forum software, but have yet to find something that provides a level of integration that I find acceptable. Let me go further: I am not impressed with most of the gallery style software that I've seen, so I need to find one that I like, first, and then customise it to integrate with forum, and then, finally, customise it further to provide what Scott has done with Gallery in his. I'm open to suggestions - please provide me with URLs.

I do make an effort to enter the challenges as I find that it can push me out of my comfort zone or to try something different.

And that is the reason that we hold these challenges, and it's the reason that they are called challenges. It's all very well to go out and shoot what you normally shoot, but that can often become routine and put you into a rut. If you have to go out and shoot something different, then it (hopefully) will help you to go out and learn something about your equipment, about the processes involved in shooting something dictated to you by a third party, about your photography, and you occasionally get a chance to win some cool prizes as well.

it is a challenge for us to work harder and capture something really worth entering.

Exactly!

But why do you worry about what others may be posting? With all due respect, I think that's a somewhat silly attitude. Others have expressed something similar, but that is avoiding the whole point of these challenges ... which, surely, is to participate in the challenge?

For me the big reservation in entering a comp is somehow I think its pointless to enter when i know I wont win

Robert, may I suggest you talk to Glen about who might be likely, or not, to win a challenge?

Adam, aim54x ... I've added both of you to the list of "No excuse for this challenge" participants.

Trevor, great point: now, if everyone who responds to this thread (who is not a judge) can go out and put in an entry, then you'll be making our task, as judges, that much more difficult. And that is exactly what we want!

And please, do not worry about whether your entry is good enough: rest assured that it is.

Just do it!

[Jase555]

I'll be entering the competitions as soon as I get my meaningful post count up and hang around for a while. In the meantime I'll practise my craft and improve. Hopefully when I'm ready to enter I'll have a chance...

[MATT]

Ok I admit .. I am just slack...


MATT

[Greg B]

I can tell you that a good amount of thought and discussion goes into the competition themes too, with a view
to making them as interesting as possible and so on.

However, the current (just started) comp is Open, so really the only requirement is that you take the photo during the comp period (ie now)

As for members feeling their work isn't good enough, bull shit. Back in my ESPS (Eastern Suburbs Photographic Society) days (late 70s)
we had a monthly comp where you entered a slide or a print. One bloke entered a slide every month, and regardless of the subject, he
always had his wife in the shot wearing a cardy and clutching her handbag. And this wasn't some ironic statement or weird thematic
insertion. I guess he just wanted Mavis in the shot.

Anyway, my point is, all stuff is good enough to go in the comp. Only one will be good enough to win, but all are good enough to enter.

[Reschsmooth]

The last challenge was a no-go for me simply as it was the busiest month of the year for me, and with a 1 year old tearing around the place, finding that period of time (10 minutes or 5 hours) to deliberate, plan and shoot an entry was not going to happen, and it didn't. But that is one challenge. I have only entered two challenges.

My excuse(s):

1. Generally finding the time to actually come up with an idea for the challenge.
2. Preparing and taking the shot.
3. Processing the shot (which could take minimal or a lot of time, notwithstanding the restrictions) and uploading.

This all sounds petty, but it seriously takes me more time for points 1 & 2 than taking shots of whatever and posting them for R&C, as there are no themes involved. This typically requires a devotion of time on a weekend that I haven't been able to do of late.

Related to this (in my mind, at least), is the issue that I find it difficult to come up with good ideas for the challenges, despite how exciting that is.

With respect to actually posting the photo on the gallery site, I actually don't find this much more difficult than posting an image for R&C - you have to upload the photo from your computer to either your own gallery or the comp gallery anyway.

[ATJ]

I had full intentions of participating in this challenge when it was first announced and already started mulling over ideas in my mind. I then basically forgot about it and time went by. I only remembered again after it was already too late.

Time is a big factor for me and I'm pretty disorganised with my time.

[Aussie Dave]

IMO, it's a case of time vs desire.

It seems the trend is that many of us are busy and cannot find the time.

I think if the desire is there to find the time and produce an entry, we would somehow find the time.

It would be interesting to see the statistics on everyone who says they are too busy vs how much time they spend frequenting this site (which could be time used to plan, setup and/or take a photo).

I know, personally, I have been alot less frequent in my posts on this forum over the last 12 months than the previous 12 months....and yes I too have been busy.....but I guess my desire to get out there and take a photo to enter (or even just to get out and take photos in general) has been waning and although I came up with several ideas for the "painting with light" challenge, I didn't end up getting off my butt and doing anything about it.

I'm not going to blame lack of time because I wasn't proactive enough to get out there.....IMHO that's a cop-out.

It is disappointing to hear that there were only 9 entires in the latest challenge and I can remember in the earlier days there was always alot of participation and eagerness to see who the winners would be.

I also agree that the challenges are just that....challenges. It should be looked as a challenge on the individual to come up with something that YOU feel is creative and worthy of submission.....not a challenge to see if you are better than everyone else on the forum.
Photography, like most arts, is subjective - so being a pro doesn't automatically make their photo any better than one from a beginner....so this shouldn't deter anyone from entering from fear that their photos are not good enough.

Reading this thread has shown me that my falling interest to get out there more is worse than I thought.....and this is something I now realise I need to work on.

Thank you Matt for starting this topic ! PS. (to all) - Next time you jump on the forum to read through the latest posts, ask yourself if you could be using this time to get out there and take some photos instead

[timbo]

I'll throw in my lot with the list of lame excuses... I've considered myself "too busy" for the last 18 months or so with renovating a house, working etc. I also thought that the comps would be far busier than they obviously have been.

Personally I think the comps are a fantastic idea, and I was sorely tempted by Glen's generous offers: particularly as I'd been looking to buy some almost identical Fenix lights for my bike! But I've been travelling since early June with only sporadic interweb access. Happily my bungalow in Hat Surin on Phuket has wireless

Count me in for the open!!

tim

[wheels]

First of all, thank you Matt for asking this question. It bothers me, too, that the participation level is so low.

but unfortunately I'm not an actual member yet (post count etc). Had I known there were only 9 I mighta just started posting inane stuff

Posting inane, garbage, crappy (whatever) messages wot do yourself any favours. However, your post count is > 90, and the basic qualifying requirements are 30 days' membership, 50 posts, an image, and a meaningful location in your profile. Then you just send a PM to myself or one of the mods ...

Biggerry, you've also been to one of our minimeets. We generally regard that as the equivalent of about ten posts; you would have no issues were you to ask.

I know i would never get a look in due to past 'indiscretions' so i wont enter. I would like too

Gary:
The above was said with tongue firmly planted in cheek. I would never post crap just to get a post count up. I deliberately haven't sent a pm to any mods as I don't think I've been here a month yet. I'll probably bother someone about it after the Auburn minimeet.

Paul

[DVEous]

... Obsolete ...

[makario]

Nothings wrong with these comps. The reason I didnt enter, I dont think my photos are the calibre (yet) that I have seen on this website. I so wanted those torches but I know I dont have a hope in hell to win em.

A suggestion for the comps could be, the judges talk/critique the photos that have entered the comps, so that every entry is guaranteed a few tips (even if its a sentence) so that we can improve.

[dviv]

A suggestion for the comps could be, the judges talk/critique the photos that have entered the comps, so that every entry is guaranteed a few tips (even if its a sentence) so that we can improve.

[Pehpsi]

Lack of spark.

[Mr Darcy]

Hell,
I try to enter all the comps, both the challenge and the sporadic themed shots that show up in the forum. Most recently the Weekender series (Thanks BigRed! )

I don't think I have a chance of winning (and so far have been proven correct ), but that is not the point.

The point is by trying, my photography gets better. What can the mods hope to offer that can better that prize? Well maybe a D3 with a full set of primes and f2.8 zooms

Also, I too have time issues. The challenges actually get me to go out and make photos happen. Sadly, they are often the only photos I take in a month.

Is it too hard to post a picture? Hardly. I managed to do it on my first try, and if I can do it...
I do think the "must be a member" rule a bit unnecessary though. I would love to see SarahMac and PaulMac enter, and I don't think they qualify yet.

On the challenges specifically, I usually post a series of photos. The first one is my first attempt, usually appalling, but I post anyway. Then I think about it, and talk it over with Pam. If I have time I try again. If the new photo is better IMO, then I replace the one already posted. If not it stands. That way, even without feedback from the judges, my photography gets better.

On the last challenge, I got the idea for a star tail shot quite early. Then it rained and rained and rained. Each photo took over an hour to take (setup time + 20 min exposure + 20min NR in camera) That meant only one go per night, and then only if not raining or windy. I managed six photos in the month. My ideas changed from the early to the later ones, and my final I was still unhappy with, but the judges were nice enough to say it was great, not great enough to win a prize, but hell the praise was more of a prize than I expected.

THe next challenge, being open, I will have difficulty with. It means I just have to think hey this is a great shot, but I won't have a theme to think about to set the shoot. Also, this is what I feel the Image critique section is about. so the only reason to post it in the challenge section is in the hope of winning a prize. Is it enough. Not sure yet. Look for my entry I guess.

[CraigVTR]

TIme (work) and lack of ability to think outside the square get me stumped, but mainly time. Given the time to mull over an idea I do sometimes come up with something worthwhile. I do also find it difficult to access the gallery after the comp to view the entries, perhaps a more prominent link would help.

I do think there is value in the themed comps as the only one I have entered gave me some great comments on the gallery. I also like to have a look at all the entries as the do provide inspiration for the next comp that comes along. I will now go and have a look for a link to the latest comp gallery.

[hrpremier]

I was a certain entry. Even went and took my images and was happy with my results but in someones wisdom has made a choice to not allow "newbies" to enter such events. Only found out due to another post as my computer continiously fails to open the FAQ page, that newbies were exempt from entering after my efforts.The new members who are possibly full of enthusiam and maybe fresh ideas could be part of the solution to a lack of entries for the "Painting with Light" theme or any other future competitions or projects suggested by the site. By no means did i expect to win but it was simply an opportunity for a new enthuisiest to experiment with techniques within the field and show off their results with pride but alas that ship has sailed. Maybe (the powers that be) might see it in their wisdom to harness new members instead of making them go through a "hazing" period to be recognised on the site

Just my thoughts

Jase

4869

[Bindii]

I got a new boyfriend who is keeping me errrrrr.... entertained in other ways...

But not to panic cause I'll be over that in time for the next comp...

[Glen]

Jase a great point and I have purposely kept out of this discussion and will try to continue to do so, but thought it important that you and others understand the reason for the 'member' rule. In the past we have had people make a single post asking about the HK connection and take advantage of that. We have also offered a brand new DSLR as a prize. We have tried to balance the minimum requirement to show you are a member against the hurdle that will obviously create for some newer members. Our desire is to give these prizes to genuine members who are part of the community here, not to someone who joins to enter a competition, especially when something like a DSLR is a prize. In a camera club it is easy, you turn up to meetings so you are a member. Here it is not so straightforward, does 1 post make you a member, or maybe 200? We are all ears for a better suggestion, all the time bearing in mind we are not News Ltd getting free prizes from Nikon or Canon, but the prizes come from the members themselves here, mostly GStark but often MattK, nnnnsic, and others. There is no charge for entering these comps or being a member here.

I, like you, think it would be tremendous to have the energy and enthusiasm of new members involved, I am just not sure how other than our present cut off method at 50 posts, etc. Any suggestions would be welcomed.

[Glen]

I got a new boyfriend who is keeping me errrrrr.... entertained in other ways...

But not to panic cause I'll be over that in time for the next comp...

Does he read the forums? Does he realise the new comp has started or can he just tell by your new behaviour?

Best reason yet to be too busy to enter.

[phillipb]

The solution may be to allow everyone in the comps but only distribute prizes to members in the same way a member can win more then one competition but can only get one prize in one year.

[olrac]

I entered my First Challenge the one before paining with light (Crema Challenge) I put thought and effort into my concept and then the challenge just died. There was no winner that I have seen and no reason for it's dismissal.

That put me off a little I must say.

[radar]

The solution may be to allow everyone in the comps but only distribute prizes to members in the same way a member can win more then one competition but can only get one prize in one year.

My thoughts too.

[Reschsmooth]

I entered my First Challenge the one before paining with light (Crema Challenge) I put thought and effort into my concept and then the challenge just died. There was no winner that I have seen and no reason for it's dismissal.

That put me off a little I must say.

This is a valid comment, along with one of the others above about having to try to find galleries, etc. I know I have, in the past, found it hard to find the gallery.

[Oz_Beachside]

i try to participate in as many as I can, I often forget, so its not a problem with the comps, just my small brain...

also, kept knocking over things with a softbox on my torch

for those that are nervous to post images, I say just do it, it pushes you to grow, and for me, nothing beats seeing my work beside others to do a "self worth" critique. dont worry about getting knocked down, focus on growing based on the feedback you will get from your posted images.

on occasion, perhaps last year, the spec of the comps have, to me, read a little anal, but I feel this has changed over the last 6 months or so, and are pitched about right.

[zafra52]

Personally, I find posting for the competitions a bit confusing. Where do we post the pics? I tried to post in a different forun a couple of time but it did not accept my id and password so I assumed I had it wrong somehow.
And, yes sometimes I lack confidence on my photographic and Photoshop skills, but I do appreciate the effort behind the scenes althought I can only guess how much work you do. For me, the real prize is that I can post some of my images here and people bother looking at them. The added bonus is when someone provides constructive criticism.

[sirhc55]

I got a new boyfriend who is keeping me errrrrr.... entertained in other ways...

That’s no excuse although you would probably be banned for life after posting the pics