Motor Sport Photography advice

[ozimax]

Calling all rev head photographers!

I am have been asked by a rally official to photograph a rally day near Coffs tomorrow. I have never photographed motorsports before. There are any number of experienced motor sport photographers on this forum. I was wondering whether there was any particular advice that could be imparted to this novice before I venture out into the bush to photograph the flying fools in their hotted up EVO's and Hyundai's.

Any advice appreciated, with thanks!

Ozi

P.S. I will be taking my 30D, 70-200 F2.8, 10-22mm, plus the usual junk.

[christiand]

Hi Ozi,

you would probably need to get your panning and shutter speed right for the job.
I cannot give you any exact shutter speed figures but I think from memory nothing faster that 1/100th (might be wrong)
Go and practice NOW at a busy street with straight and corner.
This will help you for tomorrow.

Best regards,
CD

[ozimax]

Go and practice NOW at a busy street with straight and corner.
This will help you for tomorrow.

Great idea, I will do this later this afternoon. Many thanks.

Ozi

[gstark]

Hi Ozi,

you would probably need to get your panning and shutter speed right for the job.

Nah ..... not for a rally. Not panning, at any rate. Rallying is a low speed motorsport (as are the V8 supercars. ) with different targets than road circuits.

You need to understand the routing that the organisers are using, and find out from them where any yumps and water crossings are going to be, as well good sweeping corners. Scope those out for vantage points, noting the way that the rally cars will be attacking the features, and also paying attention to any escape routes that you might need to take advantage of.

For yumps, you may find a lower angle of view to be useful, to help emphasise the impression of height. Four wheels off the ground is better than three is better than two ...

Shallowish water crossings can make for good images, with good spray being what the punters probably look for.

For the sweepers, a good four wheel drift is what you want. Forget "drifting" - Colin Bond was doing this for years before brocky even, and was a true master of this dark art.

Shutters of 1/125 or better are probably the order of the day. As I said, this is a low speed motorsport event, and you probably won't get too many panning opportunities due to the nature of the terrain the drivers will be negotiating.

Don't overlook service points as a source of images either.

And as always, remember that motorsport is dangerous, and for spectators, rallying even moreso, as there's no such thing as a safely cordoned off area. As much as this is true is also why this can be one of the most engaging forms of motorsport, because you can enjoy this right at, literally, trackside.

[ozimax]

And as always, remember that motorsport is dangerous, and for spectators, rallying even moreso, as there's no such thing as a safely cordoned off area. As much as this is true is also why this can be one of the most engaging forms of motorsport, because you can enjoy this right at, literally, trackside.

Thanks for the info Gary.

Actually, I was offered a ride in a rally car tomorrow. I said, "Not on your sweet life!" Bungy jumping, parachuting, spider handling, even walking down State street Chicago after dark, no problem, but rallying? No way Jose.

[gstark]

And as always, remember that motorsport is dangerous, and for spectators, rallying even moreso, as there's no such thing as a safely cordoned off area. As much as this is true is also why this can be one of the most engaging forms of motorsport, because you can enjoy this right at, literally, trackside.

Thanks for the info Gary.

Actually, I was offered a ride in a rally car tomorrow. I said, "Not on your sweet life!" Bungy jumping, parachuting, spider handling, even walking down State street Chicago after dark, no problem, but rallying? No way Jose.

Curiously, I will do - have done - rallying. It is heaps of fun. Been involved as a competitor (navigator), director, sweep, control official, service crew ... everything from fun navigation events through to the London-Sydney Marathon.

Wouldn't touch the other activities that you mention.

But I will offer the observation that you might notice that it's the navigators' side of the car that gets the lion's share of the dents.

[BullcreekBob]

G'day

I don't want to hijack this thread but I've got some questions too. Tell me to bugger off and start my own thread if that's appropriate.

Some folks I know are going to an evening meeting at Wanneroo raceway next month and I'm thinking of tagging along. I never photographed a car, stationary or moving, but I thought "Why not try it !"

My questions are about gear;

1) I'll be using a D300 body - should I push the ISO to 800, 1600 to get faster shutter speeds?
2) I've not got a fast telephoto zoom lens; just the 18-200VR and a sigma 70-300f4-5.6. I've also got a couple of primes, a Nikkor 50mm F1.8 and Sigma 105mm F2.8; so which lens am I most likely to *succeed* with?

Going around the garages (I think they call them pits) will obviously give very different results to when the cars are on the circuit.

So, advise please

Bob in Bull Creek

[ozimax]

No worries Bob, that's what this forum is all about. There is heaps of advice to be had by those who have done it all.
Will you be shooting at night? If so, you'll most probably need a higher ISO to capture speeding objects. If during daylight hours, your 18-200 /70-300 should be fine. Don't use VR in this instance as your subject will be moving. And as with all sports, the closer the better.

I'm sure others will shed light on the finer points of motorsport photography.

Ozi

[christiand]

Hi Bob,

high shutter speed "FREEZES" the wheels of the vehicles wich can make them look stationary.
1/100 th or as Gary suggested 1/125th of a second is probably the fastes you want to use.
And panning can be applicable, rallye sport is not always slow and track sport is almost quite fast.
Gary made a number of valuable points: get to know the track !

HTH,
CD

[Oneputt]

Ozi I shoot the Qld Rally every year and this is what I have learned. Unless your panning technique is very good, forget about it and use a fast enough shutter speed to freeze the action (you can always add motion blur afterwards if you must). If you can get close to the action then do. I rarely shoot at anything over 70mm and most shots are much less than that. Don't change lenses unless you absolutely have to, as dust is usually an issue around rallies. Don't hesitate to up the ISO to get the shutter speed you need, as noise and dust in the air look very similar I generally pre focus on a spot and shoot as the car enters the view finder, if you use an aperture which provides sufficient depth of field you will still get sharp images. Enjoy - rallies are hard work and when shooting I never get to watch the event. Oh and unless you are prepared to get covered in gravel and flying debris shoot from the inside of the bends not the outside.

[michael_]

im with oneputt i wouldnt shoot slow shutter speeds for rally, well for the most part anyway, alot of stuff is head on soshooting at 1/320- 1/500 would be fine to get clear sharp dust flying all over the place, shallow DOF, offcourse if you want to pan then 1/125-1/200 would be fine but look around at rally photos and more often than not its stopping the action than giving the sense of speed

[Raskill]

Find the hairpin corner (every rallly seems to have one) and use the 10 - 20mm at it's shortest length from inside the bend. This is also a good lens for up close detail shots in the pits. With regards to panning, if you find a straight the cars will easily be going fast enough to pan.

Anything around the 1/200 will produce a small amount of wheel blur and background blur, but it's still fast enough to forgive errors in panning technique.

Also, if you are using the 70-200, don't waste your time with a monopod. I see people doing this lots. It's more difficult to pan with a monopod and short lens like that, than handholding. It might also be a good idea to get some UV filters for your lenses, they might just protect your front element from a 100kmph rock....

[ozimax]

Thanks all. Yes, I have plenty of filters for the lens and I have taken thousands of surfing shots so panning shouldn't be too hard.

I'm going to get set up early tomorrow and try and find some good spots, hopefully getting where the flying rocks aint!

Ozi.

[Pehpsi]

Sounds tops, good luck and look forward to some pics..

[ozimax]

Sounds tops, good luck and look forward to some pics..

Many thanks. I have already posted a few images yesterday.

[MCWB]

A bit late on this, but there's the Motorsport Photography Guide to have a look at too!

[team piggy]

I predominantly shoot rally and use panning quite a bit. If you have media creds you can shoot the inside of corners to get some fantastic panning effects.

Jumps, Water etc all are what the punters want. The biggest is reading the road book before hand and position yourself aat ANY cautions or even better double cautions (represented in the road book by ! / !! respectively).

Over 1/250th will stop the wheels under that on fast jumps and bits will still have decent wheel blur. I shoot as low as 1/10th on corner pans but usually 1/40-60th.

[akdphotos]

Hi all,

new to the forum.
This may sounds crazy, and i know the post is older now. But telling someone to shot a rally one particular way will only lead to one thing. Their photos being no different to everybody elses.

If i may, i would like to add my 2 cents worth to this.

Panning. Absolutly. The way rallying is going now a days, it seems there are more and more tarmac rallies. I shoot the Rally of Melbourne each year just from a spectators point of view. When the cars are on tarmac, panning is vital. As for shutter speeds, i shoot as low as 1/30th while the cars are doing 90+ K/ph past me. Why, becuase it's different to what everone else shoots. When you get just a sponsor of the cars number stopped, and the rest of the car is slightly blurred, it creates the effect of speed, it can make a datsun 1600 look like its doing something it isn't.

Shutter speeds. Do them all. Work from 1/500th right the way down. You can get diferent feels just from that by standing in the same place. Same as you don't always have to fill the frame up, you can have the car small, where it seems the scenery is the key to the shot, or you can go for things like under heavy breaking when you get glowing discs, just having the front half of the car in shot.

All i can say to it is, if you ever do this again, EXPERIMENT. Don't be affraid to try something different. Sometimes thats what people look for.
Regards
Andrew

[atky]

Hi all,

new to the forum.
This may sounds crazy, and i know the post is older now. But telling someone to shot a rally one particular way will only lead to one thing. Their photos being no different to everybody elses.

If i may, i would like to add my 2 cents worth to this.

Panning. Absolutly. The way rallying is going now a days, it seems there are more and more tarmac rallies. I shoot the Rally of Melbourne each year just from a spectators point of view. When the cars are on tarmac, panning is vital. As for shutter speeds, i shoot as low as 1/30th while the cars are doing 90+ K/ph past me. Why, becuase it's different to what everone else shoots. When you get just a sponsor of the cars number stopped, and the rest of the car is slightly blurred, it creates the effect of speed, it can make a datsun 1600 look like its doing something it isn't.

Shutter speeds. Do them all. Work from 1/500th right the way down. You can get diferent feels just from that by standing in the same place. Same as you don't always have to fill the frame up, you can have the car small, where it seems the scenery is the key to the shot, or you can go for things like under heavy breaking when you get glowing discs, just having the front half of the car in shot.

All i can say to it is, if you ever do this again, EXPERIMENT. Don't be affraid to try something different. Sometimes thats what people look for.
Regards
Andrew

Totaly agree seen the same shots for years try to do it diferent!

[michael_]

the difference is he was starting out, its one thing to experiment and try to be different with experience behind you but i dont agree trying it totally off the bat, learn the sport first and get decent sharp shots with motion blur which is doable at 1/160, you make it sound like its easy to get a 1/30th shot when it isnt even with practise

[akdphotos]

the difference is he was starting out, its one thing to experiment and try to be different with experience behind you but i dont agree trying it totally off the bat, learn the sport first and get decent sharp shots with motion blur which is doable at 1/160, you make it sound like its easy to get a 1/30th shot when it isnt even with practise

I never said it was easy to take shots at 1/30th. I just made mention that i try and shot as low as 1/30th, why, becuase it is different and not a lot of other people do it. what do that achive? a different shot to everyone else. Which is my point all along.
Sure, it would be hard for someone who has never shot rally before, but if they ar a descent photographer, the only difference between them and a regular rally photograher, is knowing where to stand and what to look for. If you have a basic concept of what happens, you get an idea what to look for. The best way to do that, look a other websites of people that shoot rally for a living, see what they look for.

But like i said, try everything. If you were going to continue and shoot more rallies, goto some club events and practice.

[Mel]

Hi All
I have been photographing the V8s at QR for the past few years, and attend test sessions etc at this track. I have taken some resonable shots but would love to learn more. I am not a professional photographer but have a real passion for this sort of photography and have just discovered this site.
I was wondering if anyone would be willing to let me tag along with them next weekend even if just for a few hours (if this is allowed at QR).

Thanks
Melanie

[Pehpsi]

Hey Mel, welcome.

Great to have another motor-sport fan on here.

What kind of gear do you use?

[Mel]

Hey Pehpsi
Thanks for the welcome!
I currently have a Pentax K100, my first DSLR. This will be my first visit to V8's with this camera previously using a Fuji finepix S9500 digital camera.
I am keen on trying out this camera, but am still quite new to photography and have a lot to learn.
I have a few different lenses for this camera but I am not really sure what the best one to use. I have it set up with the 28-200mm?
I have DC 18-125mm, DC 18-50mm, 28-200mm, AF 20-35mm, M 100mm, M 50mm

Melanie

[seeto.centric]

hehe i miss shooting motorsports.. my first and last one was Silvia NSW trackday @ Oran Park. quite a learning experience but overall quite successful for a first time.

Welcome aboard Melanie, may i bother u to sound like a noob and ask what QR is?

-julian

[scoobydoo]

Sorry to hijack the thread too, this got me interested.

I've been looking at the eastern creek raceways website and I can't seem to find any terms and conditions on entry. Are there times that you can't bring your camera, ie major event days?

[barry]

From my experience there is no limitations on equipment. The limitations are more on places you can or can't go depending on the event. The bigger the event (eg V8 Supercars of A1GP) the less access.

[the afro guy]

may i bother u to sound like a noob and ask what QR is?

-julian

QR is Quennsland Raceway in most motorsport circles.

As a general rule with motorsport events there is no restriction on bringing in cameras and what not. If people take pics of the cars then thats fantastic because when they get plastered all over the net the sponsors get that little bit more exposure! That counts everything from the basic tuning afternoons right through to the v8 supertaxi's. The only events that you probably won't get into are the private invitation only ones and thats understandable

[bwhinnen]

While we are moving off topic

Most of the large events will have T&C's that limit the focal length of the lens you are allowed to take in as general public, more often than not this is 300mm, although they do not restrict you taking a TC in as well. Other than that the restrictions are where you are allowed to take them from. Mind you if you are on the fence at QR you get a great view of the entire track there anyway and can get shots from 'most' of the turns... But in saying that QR can be a pretty boring track from a photographers view when you are talking grass roots motorsport, think of a bowl with a paperclip in the middle, but once a crowd turns up for a nice background things start to get interesting

And back to the OT. Taking different shots is all well and good, but you need to make sure they actually turn out well. There is a reason you see the same sort of shots time in time out in publications and on the web. My advice is get the traditional paying shots and then start playing with angles, shutter speeds, locations (be safe about it please), apertures, focal lengths etc. If the 'play' shots don't work out you always have the traditional angles and shots to fall back on and don't be afraid to tell a story with a single photo, rather than just a car in the middle of the frame...

[team piggy]

And back to the OT. Taking different shots is all well and good, but you need to make sure they actually turn out well. There is a reason you see the same sort of shots time in time out in publications and on the web. My advice is get the traditional paying shots and then start playing with angles, shutter speeds, locations (be safe about it please), apertures, focal lengths etc. If the 'play' shots don't work out you always have the traditional angles and shots to fall back on and don't be afraid to tell a story with a single photo, rather than just a car in the middle of the frame...

Spot on advice..

[scoobydoo]

While we are moving off topic

Most of the large events will have T&C's that limit the focal length of the lens you are allowed to take in as general public, more often than not this is 300mm, although they do not restrict you taking a TC in as well. Other than that the restrictions are where you are allowed to take them from.

Does that mean tripods are out of the question? How do you guys and girls do a panning shot free hand at 300mm? You all must have a steady hand

[bwhinnen]

While we are moving off topic

Most of the large events will have T&C's that limit the focal length of the lens you are allowed to take in as general public, more often than not this is 300mm, although they do not restrict you taking a TC in as well. Other than that the restrictions are where you are allowed to take them from.

Does that mean tripods are out of the question? How do you guys and girls do a panning shot free hand at 300mm? You all must have a steady hand

Tripod they may frown upon, but you should be able to get a monopod in

Panning shots, well its not about a steady hand, more a smooth motion this will generally offset the shaky hands

[team piggy]

As said, Smooth motion, Monopods and also VR can be handy on the larger primes.

[bwhinnen]

Well the V8SC do not bother restricting anyone bringing anything in... Saw a few 300mm primes and tripods and monopods and even a 400mm f2.8L prime on a mkIII body floating about over the weekend...