Ordering from BH Photo. Delivery Question

[devilla101]

Just about to order a couple of things from BH and going to choose UPS. However ran into a bit of trouble regarding shipping. It states that they only ship to your home and not your place of business...erm how strict are they into enforcing this as I have people at my place at irregular times? I would rather them ship to my work address.
Is this possible? My other option is International Express mail which cost significantly more and has no tracking option.

Thanks guys

[ATJ]

International express mail definitely has tracking and has been very accurate for me. Others have had a different experience.

I doubt that UPS would care where they deliver it, but you may have a problem with the credit card not matching the delivery address. I guess you could update your credit card to have your work address as an alternate address.

[DVEous]

... Obsolete ...

[devilla101]

Thanks for the reply guys.

VK4CP: ATJ pretty much hit it on the ball. I'll be paying by CC and under BH Photo "International Order" their shipping policy states:

"We ship to your home address only. We do not ship to your place of business, hotels, motels, or resorts."
and
"We accept MasterCard, Visa, American Express, and Discover. The billing address on order must match the billing address associated with the customer’s credit card."

ATJ: How long did it take via International Express Mail?

If all else fails might force someone to stay till it arrives

[carla_d]

I've had things delivered by UPS in the past and if no one's home they leave a card. You then call them to arrange re-delivery, which can be to whatever address you want.

[devilla101]

Thanks carla_d. Hmmm there seems to be 2 different ways UPS is operating. One delivering the item and leaving at the door and the other leaving a card.

And after re-reading my original post I realised regardless of which delivery options I choose it has to be delivered to my home address cause of CC.

Thanks people, appreciate the help

[ATJ]

Ron,

I'm up the mountains which is not within the UPS delivery area and they palm it off to AAE. If I order before Monday (US time) and use UPS, I normally get the package last thing Friday afternoon, even though the package is in Sydney on Wednesday afternoon.

If I use express post and order the same time, I sometimes get the parcel on Friday morning otherwise Monday morning. It will take longer if it is over $1000 in value as you have to do the paperwork.

[the foto fanatic]

I ordered a small item from B7H last Thursday, 17 July.

It was delivered to me in Brisbane on Monday 21 July.

This was the UPS Worldwide Saver shipping method.

[gstark]

Getting the most prompt delivery is very much a fine timing issue. If you get all of your ducks in a row, you can have stuff ordered on a Friday and in your hands on the following Monday. Order on a Wednesday and have your toys for the weekend.

But this needs a little planning and understanding on your part to make it happen. First of all, are the goods in stock? If not, fergedaboudit!

Is your order likely to be held up in a customs queue? If it's coming from the US, and valued at > US$950, probably. Fergedaboudit!

As I said, it's all based on timing: on a Thursday morning here in Oz, it's still Wednesday arvo in the US, but B&H are on the east coast, so the sun sets earlier there than it does in Calfornia. Early Thursday (Sydney time) may still be workable for a NY origin shipment, but will be way too late for a HK origined one.

Fed-UPS have daily flights to Oz from the US (Mon-Fri) and the goal is that for a Monday delivery (capital city) you want to be on the Friday flight. Making the Thursday flight will not speed up your delivery at all, as that bird lands on the Saturday. Trevor's example was exactly this case. If you want a Friday delivery, then you need nothing later than a Wednesday US departure; Tuesday would be optimal.

From HKG, I've actually seen overnight deliveries made: package leaves HK tonight, in the recipient's hands tomorrow! That's good, but it's the exception. Typically, allow two clear days for shipment via Fed-UPS, and a week for Express Pest.

Ron, how would they know what is your work, and what is your home, address? Some people have their CC billing address as their work address; others might use a PO box. Validating the billing address is not going to be how it's done.

If you can use some creative license in formatting the address ... Suite 17, 81 Bloggs St ....

[Oz_Beachside]

they deliver to non PO Boxes, as they want a live person. however, if you state, "Leave on doorstep" or similar instructions, they will do so. if they miss you, they card you to arrange alternatives.

they route oddly, NY to Melbourne, goes through Melbourne, then to Sydney, then back to Melbourne (every time)...

[michael_]

devilla you ordered yet? im about to place an order, current cart toal is about $400 want to share shipping? good thing is i work from home so can have it delivered to me then we can meet to give you yours, email me info@mvettas.com or phone me 02 9590 9696 if you are interested, i am doing it on monday.

[StarForge]

Ouch I just got a call from UPS or someone saying I have to pay $181 to get my 17-55mm f/2.8 released from Melbourne ... eeps! It was from B&H's used department, but B&H put the US retail value in the paperwork!

Damn import duty, GST and security duty!

I guess B&H aren't dodgy like eBay sellers that put 'Gift' and total values < $1000, but damn I'm so used not having to pay extra

[gstark]

It was from B&H's used department,

Irrelevant, actually. New or used, you are still liable for the GST.

There's no import duty, but you will be paying a UPS ransom.

Just a couple of the fringe benefits of buying stuff from the USofA.

[petal666]

It was from B&H's used department,

Irrelevant, actually. New or used, you are still liable for the GST.

No so. The lens is 2nd hand so it isn't worth full retail. It should have come in at less than $1000 for a 2nd hand one, and if not the lens should have been bought locally.

The simplest with B&H is to get them to send it to your home address, but when you get the tracking number sent to you, use this link to request a change of shipping address to where ever you really want it sent to.

[StarForge]

I feel a little burnt from this experience, UPS said it was 'import duty + GST + security duty (handling)' ... it was < $1000 so I'm unsure why the full retail value was written on the parcel...

[gstark]

It was from B&H's used department,

Irrelevant, actually. New or used, you are still liable for the GST.

No so. The lens is 2nd hand so it isn't worth full retail. It should have come in at less than $1000 for a 2nd hand one

Sorry, but no.

Yes, the lens may be second hand, but what does the invoice say? Just simply saying it's not worth full retail is somewhat meaningless: a pre-owned and fully serviceable D3 body will still fetch well in excess of Au$1K, and the same might be true of this class of lens, although not to the extent that a D3 body will exceed the 1K threshhold.

My point though was that the fact that an item is second hand has no impact upon the liability for GST - GST is payable on new and/or pre-owned equipment. Simply purchasing an item creates that liability. IIRC, the only way to avoid the liability is to be able to establish ownership of the item for a period in excess of twelve months; something rather difficult to do when just purchasing the item, I would respectfully suggest.

Your point relates to its stated value, of which neither of us has any actual concept of in this specific case, and upon which I chose to make no specific comment.

However, (and getting down to specifics) the fee paid was stated as Au$181. This indicates to me that, allowing for a UPS ransom of around Au$70, the value stated on the invoice would have been in the vicinity of US$1100. Forum price is PP1500, and thus a pre-owned value - which must include the cost of shipping - of around US$1K - US$1.2K is probably not unreasonable nor unexpected.

If one is to try to exclude the deduction for the UPS ransom, you come to a retail value of around US$1800; a little too much for this item new, I suspect, and thus probably an invalid calculation.

Bottom line is that this seems to me that it's actually an expected outcome, and thus I do agree with your point that the lens should probably have either been bought locally, or perhaps new from an alternate source.

Your suggestion about the change of shipping address is most interesting.

[StarForge]

I think this was always one of my fears when getting things via online stores / eBay that shipped from overseas. I'm a little more accepting of the charge now that I've put it down to abiding by the laws and doing the right thing.

When I receive the receipt of what I paid I'll see where all that came from. While on the phone I knew I should have written down the details, but the UPS guy broke it down into the 3 components it added up somehow, but I still think it unfair that B&H put the value of the item as the price of a new lens from them. I might just write to them and tell them of this experience and see what they say.

[gstark]

I feel a little burnt from this experience, UPS said it was 'import duty + GST + security duty (handling)' ... it was < $1000 so I'm unsure why the full retail value was written on the parcel...

Yes, UPS will charge you a handling fee once it's established that there's GST or duty payable. If they are actually charging you "duty" then something is very wrong, because there is no import duty on photographic goods. Have you asked them for how much duty was charged, and if so, the extent?

Regarding the GST ... in calculating your <$1000 price, did you (a) include the cost of shipping? and (b) include the conversion to the Pacific Peso? The value is always based upon the shipped PP value, not simply the baseline price you may have paid for the item.

Let's say that your price was US$930, plus, say, US$60 shipping. For the purposes of GST calculation at the time of import, the value would be somewhere around PP1042, given today's FX rate of around US$0.9496 and the (assumed) shipped cost of US$990. Please feel free to substitute actual values as appropriate; I'd like to see how close to the mark I am.

And, as soon as you enter the realm of needing to pay GST, UPS hits you with the UPS ransom - their fee for doing the customs paperwork on the transaction, and that's what I suspect you're seeing as "security duty (handling)". That's in the realm of PP70 last time I looked, although that was a while ago, so it may be higher.

Yes, it's a painful learning experience, especially the UPS ransom.

[petal666]

I think I misread your statement. My comments were based on the fact that this lens can be bought 2nd hand locally for less than $1000 and figured that no more than this was paid and that B&H should have marked it with the value that was paid for it. In fact I'm surprised that it wasn't. The packing slips on the B&H boxes are for exactly the same value as was paid, they are pretty much identical to the actual receipt that is inside the box.

The address change works fine. I do it all the time.

[gstark]

When I receive the receipt of what I paid I'll see where all that came from. While on the phone I knew I should have written down the details, but the UPS guy broke it down into the 3 components it added up somehow,

Ring them up and ask for the breakdown. If there is any import duty, challenge that, as it is wrong, and illegal for them to charge it. Ask them why, specifically, you are being charged import duty on an item that does not attract such a charge.

but I still think it unfair that B&H put the value of the item as the price of a new lens from them. I might just write to them and tell them of this experience and see what they say.

From what you've stated thus far, I don't really see any evidence that B&H have put a new price down as the price paid, nor as the value. The numbers seem to me to equate to a value of a little more than Au$1K being the value upon which the GST was assessed, plus the cost of processing by UPS.

And remember too that Au Customs will take whatever value they deem appropriate for the goods being imported, regardless of any invoice provided, and regardless of the source of the products. If they think the product is worth $X, tough titties.

[StarForge]

I'm going to have to go through the paper tomorrow when the lens arrives. Including the postage it was in excess of $1k so and converting to AUD for the item alone it was just over $1k so either way they could ping me with that.

I wonder if I went with FedEx would it have been different? I guess not, it still goes through customs...

Actually I'll ring up UPS now and ask for a breakdown of the cost again and query each part. Thanks Gary.

[gstark]

I think I misread your statement. My comments were based on the fact that this lens can be bought 2nd hand locally for less than $1000 and figured that no more than this was paid and that B&H should have marked it with the value that was paid for it. In fact I'm surprised that it wasn't. The packing slips on the B&H boxes are for exactly the same value as was paid, they are pretty much identical to the actual receipt that is inside the box.

No worries.

I see no reason in this instance to suggest that B&H's normal practices were not followed in this instance. I think that when you break down the numbers, a price paid for the lens (only, unshipped) that is marginally lower than US$1K would cause this to occur, and the suggested calculations that I've given don't seem, to me, to be unreasonable for the scenario as I've described it. If the shipped cost was < US$850, then yes, I think I'd be expecting to escape GST, but that's about where I'd be drawing my line in the sand.

And yes, one should always be checking all sources to ensure that the best value is obtained.

The address change works fine. I do it all the time.

Cool. A very useful tip.

[gstark]

Including the postage it was in excess of $1k

There's the problem. It's right there that you tripped over the GST trigger point.

Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

Do pay 10% GST. There's at least PP100, and we've not yet done the conversion.

Do pay UPS for the privilege of processing your package. That's the UPS Ransom.

PP181 is right on the money, I'm afraid, and it's NOT using the new retail price, but just your shipped value.

so and converting to AUD for the item alone it was just over $1k so either way they could ping me with that.

Yep.

Take your converted cost, including shipping. Take 10%: that's your GST. Subtract that from 181, and that's the UPS ransom.

I wonder if I went with FedEx would it have been different? I guess not, it still goes through customs...

A different ransom value, but basically the same.

[PiroStitch]

The past few orders I've made through b&h have all been delivered to a business address...and that was with the default shipping option (UPS I think). First was to my old workplace, when I was still there, and another was to a relative's workplace and they left it with reception.

[ATJ]

You will typically get three charges from UPS for goods where GST has to be paid:

1) The GST itself
2) A fee charged by Customs to submit the paperwork (you'll get hit by this even if you send it by mail, you just end up doing the paperwork)
3) A fee charged by UPS for doing the paperwork.

[ATJ]

Oh... and another complication...

The tax free threshold is AU$1000 which is supposed to be on the value of goods excluding shipping (at least according to Customs - but it appears different groups interpret it differently.

BUT.... if it is judged that GST is payable, it is charged on the total price including shipping.

So... in theory, you could purchase something that has a value of AU$990 where shipping costs $AU100 and get away without paying GST, but you could just as easily get hit with a GST bill of AU$109 plus other charges.

[ATJ]

Here's a weird one...

I ordered some goods from B&H.

I placed the order on Sunday night (AEST).
B&H shipped the goods (with UPS) Monday afternoon (EDT - Tuesday morning AEST)
The order was split in two, one package shipped via JFK and the other via Newark.
Both packages went through Louisville and Honolulu at the same times.
Both packages had an arrival scan at 3:06pm Wednesday
On package (1) had an import scan at 6:19pm (Wednesday) and the other (2) at 6:29PM (Wednesday).
There have been no more updates to the UPS website for either package.

I know that UPS offload to AAE for areas outside their delivery routes, so I started checking the AAE Track and Trace yesterday afternoon.

One package (1) showed up in the AAE system quite early yesterday, was picked up by AAE yesterday and delivered to me today at around 4:30pm.

The other package (2) still doesn't show in the AAE system and I have no idea where it is.

The lucky thing is all the stuff I wanted quickly was in the first package and there is only a diopter lens for someone else, who I won't see for 2 weeks, in the other package.

[ATJ]

Update: The second parcel has now appeared on the AAE site and should be delivered tomorrow. Interesting that they got separated by a day.